Kings Cross - New station

[swt_passenger]

I just hope there are some more pedestrian tunnels to the Victoria and Northern line waiting to be unveiled... that very long, very narrow single foot bi-directional tunnel up to the new tube concourse is horrible, no control over pedestrians, and rammed solid in the rush hour, with people walking into eachother... I avoid using the tube at that station now whenever I can

There are more escalators and stairs directly from the NTH concourse up into the west side of the new western concourse, (they come out under the mezzanine catering floor) so there should be no need to use that north/south underground link passageway at all if arriving at the station using either the Victoria or Northern lines, and following the wayfinding signage, which AFAICS already leads you from the platforms to the NTH, rather than the original tube ticket hall at the front of the station.

 

[transmanche]

I just hope there are some more pedestrian tunnels to the Victoria and Northern line waiting to be unveiled... that very long, very narrow single foot bi-directional tunnel up to the new tube concourse is horrible, no control over pedestrians, and rammed solid in the rush hour, with people walking into eachother... I avoid using the tube at that station now whenever I can

There are more escalators and stairs directly from the NTH concourse up into the west side of the new western concourse, (they come out under the mezzanine catering floor) so there should be no need to use that north/south underground link passageway at all if arriving at the station using either the Victoria or Northern lines, and following the wayfinding signage, which AFAICS already leads you from the platforms to the NTH, rather than the original tube ticket hall at the front of the station.

I assumed that Waddon was referring to the tunnels that link the Piccadilly & Victoria lines to the NTH - parts of which were originally used to link those lines with the Thameslink platforms. They are quite narrow. In fact, when I use KXSP I ignore the signage - and always exit via the original tube ticket hall.

See this plan of KXSP.

 

[HSTEd]

Its a pity there was no unlimited money available, because we could have had 200m long suburban platforms and a huge concourse built above them.
Would have helped with the platform capacity issues and provided them with some additional utility after the end Thameslink opens but oh well, the rebuild looks very nice.

 

[swt_passenger]

I assumed that Waddon was referring to the tunnels that link the Piccadilly & Victoria lines to the NTH - parts of which were originally used to link those lines with the Thameslink platforms. They are quite narrow. In fact, when I use KXSP I ignore the signage - and always exit via the original tube ticket hall.

I can see the question could mean different things, depending how you interpret which passgeway he referred to. If it is the deeper level interchange passageway he's referring to then no, there are no new ones about to be opened.

 

[philjo]

Will there still be access to the platfroms from the present York way entrance?

A lot of the terminating buses (59,10,63,45 etc) drop off at the bus stops in York Way & it would be a pain to have to walk all the way round to the new concourse only to have to come back to platforms 0/1.

 

[swt_passenger]

Will there still be access to the platfroms from the present York way entrance?

A lot of the terminating buses (59,10,63,45 etc) drop off at the bus stops in York Way & it would be a pain to have to walk all the way round to the new concourse only to have to come back to platforms 0/1.

Good question. There definitely was access from the York Way 'SE corner' shown in the planning drawings, but it was not shown in the passenger flow analysis presented as part of the same planning process.

Remains to be seen if entry there will be provided in the final design as built.

 

[shinkansen1966]

When the new KX booking hall is opened, where exactly will the ticket barriers be ?

 

[swt_passenger]

When the new KX booking hall is opened, where exactly will the ticket barriers be ?

The main entry gateline will be alongside the south end of platform 8, through what was once offices and shops. The main exit gateline will be across the entire front of the station:

 

[shinkansen1966]

The main entry gateline will be alongside the south end of platform 8, through what was once offices and shops. The main exit gateline will be across the entire front of the station:

Interesting, thanks.

And what about passengers using the new footbridge to access platforms 0 - 7. Where will they pass through the ticket barriers ?

 

[transmanche]

Will there still be access to the platfroms from the present York way entrance?

A lot of the terminating buses (59,10,63,45 etc) drop off at the bus stops in York Way & it would be a pain to have to walk all the way round to the new concourse only to have to come back to platforms 0/1.

Not just terminating buses, but also through routes 17, 91, 259, & 390 use stop G in York Way.

Good question. There definitely was access from the York Way 'SE corner' shown in the planning drawings, but it was not shown in the passenger flow analysis presented as part of the same planning process.

Remains to be seen if entry there will be provided in the final design as built.

I guess when the new public square is constructed, it might be possible for the routes that come from Euston Road to stop there. In the meantime it'll probably easier to alight at stop M by St Pancras Station.

 

[jopsuk]

Interesting, thanks.

And what about passengers using the new footbridge to access platforms 0 - 7. Where will they pass through the ticket barriers ?

I'd assume there will be a gateline on the upper level as they enter the main shed.

The exit gateline is I think the current gateline in the main shed (plus extension to cover the last gap)

 

[LE Greys]

I'm looking forward to seeing it, and will find some excuse to get to London over Easter for that very purpose. I still don't like the footbridge, and reckon it could have been disguised as the old one easily, but that's a different issue. However, it will be great to have the old frontage back. I hope they keep the square open and not covered in retail stands and so on (they used to call it 'the African Village' before the '70s rebuild). Maybe it could have been better, but it's still good.

Having a direct route to Gatwick is also appreciated, I remember too many times hauling luggage up Pentonville Road on the way home. St Pancras isn't so bad, but a direct route would be much better. What's more, it makes changing for Heathrow at Farringdon a viable option.

 

[swt_passenger]

Interesting, thanks.

And what about passengers using the new footbridge to access platforms 0 - 7. Where will they pass through the ticket barriers ?

There's another small gateline where the route from the catering level towards the footbridge passes through the 'western range' buildings, at footbridge level. The first class lounge is in the same area.

There's another small ground level gateline at the north end of the new concourse that leads onto P8.

And of course a completely separate entry/exit gateline for the suburban shed.

 

[jon0844]

Platforms 9-11 (or 10-12 in the future) are certainly not hidden away in a corner anymore, that's for sure.

It's looking really good down there now and I can't wait to see it all open, and with new shops etc. If it has to be second place to St Pancras, so be it - but it's still going to be something rather special.

 

[stut]

Has there been any word where the cycle racks are going to be? There was talk of a manned cycle park too. Would be lovely to have the new-style double-decker racks at King's Cross - not only do they fit more, they also prevent a lot of accidental damage.

 

[sidmouth]

I assumed that Waddon was referring to the tunnels that link the Piccadilly & Victoria lines to the NTH - parts of which were originally used to link those lines with the Thameslink platforms. They are quite narrow. In fact, when I use KXSP I ignore the signage - and always exit via the original tube ticket hall.

See this plan of KXSP.

Ditto. When leaving the Victoria or Picadily line I always follow the direction signs for the Circle line in order to access KGX : saves a ten minute walk (and sore feet). Likewise in the other direction I initially ignore the Picadily and Victoria signs until arriving at the original tube ticket hall. I suppose that it might be quicker to walk via the new underground booking hall once the new KGS concourse is open, but certainly not at the moment.

 

[LE Greys]

Platforms 9-11 (or 10-12 in the future) are certainly not hidden away in a corner anymore, that's for sure.

It's looking really good down there now and I can't wait to see it all open, and with new shops etc. If it has to be second place to St Pancras, so be it - but it's still going to be something rather special.

I hope it's more affordable. Food at St Pancras tends to be a bit pricey. I suppose it's too much to hope for a station dining room in the old offices overlooking the main trainshed. If I was running it, it would be called either "The Sir Nigel Gresley" or "The Hadrian Bar" (as in the Pullman car).

 

[Bald Rick]

I hope it's more affordable. Food at St Pancras tends to be a bit pricey. I suppose it's too much to hope for a station dining room in the old offices overlooking the main trainshed. If I was running it, it would be called either "The Sir Nigel Gresley" or "The Hadrian Bar" (as in the Pullman car).

There's going to be a pub in the old booking hall in the western range. Similar principle to the Betjeman Arms at St Pancras, although not sure who will be running it, will find out.

 

[jon0844]

St Pancras wanted higher class establishments, and WH Smith, but I expect King's Cross will have much cheaper places offering some more value, and WH Smith.

I expect there might even be a McDonalds, even with two just outside!

Sent from my Commodore 64 using Tapatalk

 

[317666]

Ditto. When leaving the Victoria or Picadily line I always follow the direction signs for the Circle line in order to access KGX : saves a ten minute walk (and sore feet). Likewise in the other direction I initially ignore the Picadily and Victoria signs until arriving at the original tube ticket hall. I suppose that it might be quicker to walk via the new underground booking hall once the new KGS concourse is open, but certainly not at the moment.

I always do that as well, the ridiculous thing is when you are in the old ticket hall, the sign for Kings Cross points towards St Pancras (tells you to turn right), turn left and you have a massive sign on a green canopy saying Kings Cross... :roll:

 

[jon0844]

There is the set of steps between the two ticket halls (King's Cross) though, which you get to slightly quicker than turning left and left again to go up (and outside, where it might be cold and windy).

 

[DarkestDreams]

Yeah, turning left and going up the stairs takes you outside briefly - plus, when the new concourse opens, that exit will leave you on the other side of the square to the new concourse.

In relation to the new interchange passage - that entire development is a mess. The interchange and exit takes so long because all the lines are linked at the point where they're furthest away from each other. I'll always follow the signs for the Circle Line etc and use the old infrastructure.

 

[Barclay]

The new pub is in the old parcels offices, and looks spectacular. it knocks the Betjemen into a cocked hat, in terms of appearance anyway. It's run by Fullers and called the Parcels Yard.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I'll be the first to admit that I was very sceptical about the rebuild of Kings Cross. I could foresee overcrowding, conflicting movements of passengers and general confusion. However, now, I can't wait.

Over the last few weeks more and more of the new structures are coming in to view and more importantly it is now clear how the movement of passengers will be managed. This once most prestigous of stations looks like it's soon going to be able to compete with its illustrious neighbour.

I understand the end of March is the opening date for the new concourse. With that and the removing of the remaining roof covers the transformation will be amazing. The uncovering of the southern section of covers has already transformed the place.

One note of caution though. The linking of the ECML to TL. I just prey that this doesn't go the way I think. The problems on the TL core are getting worse as evidenced by the increasing regularity with which details appear on this forum. If that mess infects Kings Cross via the junction at Bell Isle, arriving 60 mins late in to a splendid Kings Cross will be of little merit.

Oh, and my solution, 6 tracks from Bell Isle to Aly Pally, run the TL around the Hertford Loop, slow lines from Langley Jn to Hitchin and then up over the new flyover to Cambridge. This would grade seperate the entire TL from the ECML flow.

Thoughts?

Good point, IMO they should have built ST. P. T/L, allowing two northbound and two Southbound Island platforms, that may have helped things somewhat.

The New King's Cross mainline stations sound like they will be good, anything is going to be better than it has been there in recent years. Just a shame the underground station is not customer friendly. Like other guys here, I try not to use KX LUL, it's easier to walk from EUS.

 

[LE Greys]

Good point, IMO they should have built ST. P. T/L, allowing two northbound and two Southbound Island platforms, that may have helped things somewhat.

The New King's Cross mainline stations sound like they will be good, anything is going to be better than it has been there in recent years. Just a shame the underground station is not customer friendly. Like other guys here, I try not to use KX LUL, it's easier to walk from EUS.

Not sure Euston's all that traveller-friendly either. The escalators are a bit narrow and congested. King's Cross is a bit of a rabbit warren now (or badger's sett on the size of the tunnels) and I hope that whatever they do to it in the end sorts things out.

I certainly agree on the Thameslink platforms. It might also have been an idea to remove the OHLE from Farringdon-St Pancras and replace it with 3rd rail. That would sort out the sub-standard clearances and provide a good turnback point in case of engineering work.

 

[Ze Random One]

As I understand it, you can turn trains back at St Pancras Low Level - or at least that is the intention.

It should also be noted that by the time the King's Cross suburban routes go through the tunnel, the combined section should have been completely resignalled, as I recall, to accommodate the automatic train operation that is thought to be necessary to achieve the high throughput demanded. That's unless the plans have changed. So hopefully the new signalling will be better than the existing system, where the modifications only really exist to support 12-car trains. Of course in the early days it'll likely be worse, and everyone will spout off about how new stuff is terrible, and nobody ever does their job right ... (look up the term "bathtub curve")

Anyway, I personally can't wait to see the new concourse, having spent many a happy half hour queuing on the existing one.

 

[Bald Rick]

Indeed you can already turn back from both platforms in either direction at St Pancras, Farringdon and City Thameslink.

The core section already has been completely resignalled, to its final state, save for some work at Blackfriars and commissioning the Proceed on Sight Aspects (POSAs) which happens in a couple of months. In 2015/6 ETCS is overlaid onto the existing signalling to enable Automatic Train Operation, but the interlockings, block sections, track circuits and colour light signals remain exactly as they are now.

The POSAs mean that straight forward signal failures become much less of an issue. There is a lot of other work going on to improve reliability, for example the whole core section OLE is being replaced with heavy duty ultra-reliable kit, and addtional electrical sectioning so that any failure can be more easily isolated.

As has been previously recorded, there is not the physical space to have made STP LL at 4 platform station, at least not for 12 coach trains.

 

[34D]

Platforms 9-11 (or 10-12 in the future) are certainly not hidden away in a corner anymore, that's for sure.

Is this renumbering going to happen then?

 

[Waddon]

By the way, was at St. Pancras Thameslink today and noticed the pointwork for the link line across to the ECML appears to have been put in at the north end of the platforms, I'm sure that wasn't there last time I looked, a few month back...

 

[jon0844]

Apparently so, but not straight away (i.e. not by the time the station full opens). I believe it will be done when other signalling work is carried out.