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kidnapped 4 hours on failed ATW 158

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merlodlliw

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This is taken from The North Wales Rail Website today,I dont think it as been posted in the forums

Train in trouble

The DMU problems on the Shrewsbury - Wolverhampton line on 9 May were described by a passenger on the train beind the failure, writing in the Shropshire Star newspaper

This is what happened to the 15:30 Aberystwyth to Birmingham service soon after it left Shrewsbury at 17:31 on Saturday evening. A few miles down the line the brakes jammed on and everything stopped. Passengers on that train were stranded for hours and with them, the passengers on my train, just behind it.

The failed train was an Arriva one. The Arriva train driver called Arriva control to tell them the problem.
Their first response is to tell the driver of that train to see what he can do. But the brakes remain locked on. So what about a second solution? Maybe our London Midland train can push the Arriva one. But there are two difficulties. The first is technical – will the couplings fit? The second is financial - will Arriva be prepared to pay for the push?

It takes until about seven o’clock to get agreement that they will and our train can push theirs. We’re over an hour in now, but the ordeal is only beginning. As soon as the trains link the Arriva fault is transferred to ours and its brakes jam. Worse, they now cannot get the trains uncoupled. It takes almost another two hours of attempts which include stopping the trains on the other line so that our drivers can safely crawl underneath before we are freed.

Unfortunately the Arriva train is still stuck fast and its passengers are left stranded as we begin to go backwards to Shrewsbury. Our guard throughout is calm and helpful and as we crawl to Shrewsbury he collects our details and tells us that station staff will be waiting in the forecourt with taxis. Experience suggests it may not be this easy and it is not. At 21.00 - three and a quarter hours after leaving Shrewsbury - we arrive back and there are no station staff and no taxis waiting.

Fortunately there is a duty manager who is surprised to see us because Shrewsbury is an Arriva station and although he had ordered a bus for the Arriva passengers, if they ever got back, he knew nothing about us because we were London Midland passengers and their control had not told his control. Neil, the Arriva employee, is a model of calm. He rings London Midland who seem confused but twenty minutes later they are back on the phone and give him permission to get us taxis to take us either home or to Wolverhampton and Birmingham. By now it's 21.30.

You would think, said another passenger to my wife, that after being stuck for over three hours they would a least give us some water. But she too wasn’t thinking straight. There is a refreshment room on Shrewsbury station. But don’t be silly. First, it was closed and second, even if Neil had the keys, it’s owned by the Lemon Tree ... one of over 400 outlets owned by SSP UK Rail Ltd, which include the Upper Crust, M & S Simply Food rail outlets and Victoria Wine and Threshers outlets. So taking water from them would have been a simple act of theft.

So, parched and frustrated we were eventually on our way, squashed into a taxi. But not just any taxi. We had to wait for one from the right contracted firm. We finally arrive home at Shifnal at 22.00, four and quarter hours after we first left Shrewsbury. But if you think this was bad spare a thought for the Arriva passengers and Neil having to deal with them. And spare a thought too for the passengers with onward connections. We don’t know what happened to the London-bound group. Hopefully they got the last train to London from Birmingham. But if they did and wanted to go further their problems were not at an end...

Our only comment: someone at Shrewsbury could perhaps have gone up the road and bought some water. We wonder what did eventually happen to the Arriva passengers.

And they want to run these clapped out 158s to London.:lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

www.nwrail.org.uk newspages
 
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RailUK Forums

37401

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my word thats bad! i was out and about on that line on that exact day too, glad i left when i did! (on my WMDR! :D)

sounds like the worst trip ever, London Midland have a delay pay scheme but it does not say 4 hours delay on it! id expect a Full refund!
 
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anthony263

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First time i have heard of this kind of situation involving the arriva class 158's i have found them to be very reliable although i will say that they do need their interiors refreshed,that said i think the class 153's are in a very bad state and even noticed that arriva were using class 143 pacers on the swansea - pembroke dock workings (poor passengers)
 

spoony

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First time i have heard of this kind of situation involving the arriva class 158's i have found them to be very reliable although i will say that they do need their interiors refreshed,that said i think the class 153's are in a very bad state and even noticed that arriva were using class 143 pacers on the swansea - pembroke dock workings (poor passengers)

The 143 class is great. Those trains are full of charachter:)
 

O L Leigh

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This is not the first time that I've heard a DMU going to assist another failed unit and getting the fault transferred.

It sounds like the plan was to send the LM unit forward and couple up to the ATW unit mechanically only before bleeding the air out of the brake system on the duffer and shoving it out the way. However, it seems that the LM driver wasn't fully informed of the situation and pressed the Couple button to make air and electrical connections by mistake. It's an easy one to do to be fair, as pressing the Couple button is usually the next step in the procedure when attaching to another unit.

That's what I don't get about these BSI couplers. With a Tightlock you can get between the units and manually split the electrical connection by throwing the drumswitches while preserving the mechanical connection. You can even completely uncouple them manually too if needs be. That way, if you get the fault transfer from the failed unit to the assisting unit you can intervene to prevent yourself being completely immobilised. Why is this not possible with a BSI...? It certainly would have meant a quicker resolution to the failure.

O L Leigh
 

merlodlliw

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Getting a bit boring hearing that in 50% of your posts now...

When the silly idea of these worn out 158s to London is dropped by ATW you wont see me mention it again, but the poor passengers on the ATW 158
& the LM 158, I am sure would not relish going to London on a 158,if it ever got there, Wales & West similar adventure ended in farce when they tried it.
 
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thefab444

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Getting a bit boring hearing that in 50% of your posts now...

I agree, it's like the old "Liverpool - Norwich is XC, damn you EMT for putting 158's we want's the 222's, hellfire scouser - yokel froth." argument all over again.

At least he's shut up about Virgin to Wrexham.
 

The Planner

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When the silly idea of these worn out 158s to London is dropped by ATW you wont see me mention it again, but the poor passengers on the ATW 158 & the LM 158, I am sure would not relish going to London on a 158,if it ever got there, Wales & West similar adventure ended in farce when they tried it.

Still on course for a May 2010 start.
 

The Signalman

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From what I'am led to believe a main air pipe fractured/failed on the ATW 158 as a result the unit dumped its main air res' hence the brakes being stuck on, so despite the compressors running they could'nt maintain air pressure against the leak.

When the LMR 170 was attached & the air connections made, because of the aformentioned pipe it dumped all its main air pressure too despite its compressors running also.

Somehow the 2 drivers managed to split the sets manually & the 170 set back towards Salop. Unitil the pipe was repaired there was no way another unit could assist the failed ATW 158 out of the way.

The same senario could happed to any kind of rolling stock with a simlar fault with the possible exception of a light Locomotive (When you could shut the loco down, attach to an assisting loco wind off the handbrake (on an old one) & drag it as a swinger for a short distance at low speed possibly - I'am sure someone could advise if this is possible.)

What I don't understand is why the passengers on the ATW 158 were'nt evacuated to the LMR 170 & sent back to Salop as allowed to in the rule book. (TCB Regs 7.1.1) or why our firm (Network Rail) failed to put in Single line working.
 

Sir_Clagalot

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They probably didnt evacuate because it would have meant climbing down from one unit then back up onto another as the 170s dont have gangway connections on the ends... If it had been 158-158 (or 15x) then they may have done the evac.
 

The Signalman

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Its been done before (on the same stretch of line as the failure) outside my signalbox whilst I was on duty between a non-gangwayed Central Trains 150/1 unit & a ATW 158 when the propshaft partially fell off the 150.
The 150 could'nt be moved until a fitter arrived from Birmingham (3 HRS later) to remove the propshaft completely.

Plus our rule book does allow for it.
 

GB

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Ive been in a similar situation before...got held just outside Manea because of a failed train in front that had its brakes stuck hard on. We went in to attempt a rescuse but couldnt fix the fault.

After about half hour it was decided to isolate all the breaks in the failed train (class 170) attach ours, and push it at 5mph all the way to peterborough...and at 5mph that is quite along time!
 

CCF23

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Surely getting a WSMR 67 would have been quicker and easier. Maybe 67029 (Royal Diamond) from Wrexham? When my WSMR loco broke down the staff gave everyone on board freebies from the buffet car :D, although thats Wrexham and Shropshire and not Arriva.
 

Geezertronic

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Wonder if it is related but I noticed the 1309 from Birmingham International to Holyhead was a single 158 today and not a pair of 158s?
 

Mojo

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Wonder if it is related but I noticed the 1309 from Birmingham International to Holyhead was a single 158 today and not a pair of 158s?
Is it not only the trains that split at Machynlleth that are 4 car? I can't check as I don't have my book in front of me, but looking online there seems to have been a problem on the Pwllheli line earlier.
 

driver9000

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That's what I don't get about these BSI couplers. With a Tightlock you can get between the units and manually split the electrical connection by throwing the drumswitches while preserving the mechanical connection. You can even completely uncouple them manually too if needs be. That way, if you get the fault transfer from the failed unit to the assisting unit you can intervene to prevent yourself being completely immobilised. Why is this not possible with a BSI...? It certainly would have meant a quicker resolution to the failure.

O L Leigh

On the BSI coupler it is possible to prevent electrical connection by pulling the electrical boxes back using the tommy bars this moves the box back about 1 inch. The drawback is that this has to be done before mechanically coupling as you need to release the bars on each side of the coupler and pull them down to retract the box - easier said than done on some couplers! Manually uncoupling is also possible by easing up on the couplers and pulling one of the uncouple arms out to release the pin.

Is the normal electrical coupling on a Tightlock automatic when 'couple' is pressed or do you need to throw the drumswitch manually each time you couple up?
 

O L Leigh

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From what I'am led to believe a main air pipe fractured/failed on the ATW 158 as a result the unit dumped its main air res' hence the brakes being stuck on, so despite the compressors running they could'nt maintain air pressure against the leak.

When the LMR 170 was attached & the air connections made, because of the aformentioned pipe it dumped all its main air pressure too despite its compressors running also.

Somehow the 2 drivers managed to split the sets manually & the 170 set back towards Salop. Unitil the pipe was repaired there was no way another unit could assist the failed ATW 158 out of the way.

It certainly would have been possible to move a failed train with a fractured main res pipe.

As I said before, the driver of the LM unit could just have banged on mechanical only. Then the ATW driver could have isolated all the brakes on his unit so that the LM unit could shove it out the way. Sure it may have been pushing against the parking brake, but there might have still been enough main res pressure to hold that off.

On the BSI coupler it is possible to prevent electrical connection by pulling the electrical boxes back using the tommy bars this moves the box back about 1 inch. The drawback is that this has to be done before mechanically coupling as you need to release the bars on each side of the coupler and pull them down to retract the box - easier said than done on some couplers! Manually uncoupling is also possible by easing up on the couplers and pulling one of the uncouple arms out to release the pin.

Surely the driver could have just banged the units together and not pressed the Couple button and this would have given a mechanical only connection without to need to fanny about with the tommy bars.

As for manual uncoupling, how can you "ease up" onto another unit while electrically connected? If you've banged on without pulling the connector boxes back and then mistakenly hit the Couple button, how do you get yourself out of that little pickle? In this particular instance, the LM driver would need to split the air and electrical connections between the units before "easing up" could have been possible.

Is the normal electrical coupling on a Tightlock automatic when 'couple' is pressed or do you need to throw the drumswitch manually each time you couple up?

The drumswitches are thrown by compressed air when you hit the Couple button. However, the facility to manually throw the drumswitches is a quick and easy way of digging yourself out of a hole.

If the units in the situation described above had Tightlocks instead of BSI's they could have been split again in minutes. Once the error had been spotted the LM driver could have jumped down and thrown the drumswitches and, as soon as the air had built up again on his unit, they could have been split normally. All of this would have taken a matter of moments.

O L Leigh
 
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The Signalman

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As I said before, the driver of the LM unit could just have banged on mechanical only. Then the ATW driver could have isolated all the brakes on his unit so that the LM unit could shove it out the way. Sure it may have been pushing against the parking brake, but there might have still been enough main res pressure to hold that off.

Its a pity they did'nt do that as it would of saved a lot of time & messing about.
 

ungreat

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This is taken from The North Wales Rail Website today,I dont think it as been posted in the forums

Train in trouble

The DMU problems on the Shrewsbury - Wolverhampton line on 9 May were described by a passenger on the train beind the failure, writing in the Shropshire Star newspaper

This is what happened to the 15:30 Aberystwyth to Birmingham service soon after it left Shrewsbury at 17:31 on Saturday evening. A few miles down the line the brakes jammed on and everything stopped. Passengers on that train were stranded for hours and with them, the passengers on my train, just behind it.

The failed train was an Arriva one. The Arriva train driver called Arriva control to tell them the problem.
Their first response is to tell the driver of that train to see what he can do. But the brakes remain locked on. So what about a second solution? Maybe our London Midland train can push the Arriva one. But there are two difficulties. The first is technical – will the couplings fit? The second is financial - will Arriva be prepared to pay for the push?

It takes until about seven o’clock to get agreement that they will and our train can push theirs. We’re over an hour in now, but the ordeal is only beginning. As soon as the trains link the Arriva fault is transferred to ours and its brakes jam. Worse, they now cannot get the trains uncoupled. It takes almost another two hours of attempts which include stopping the trains on the other line so that our drivers can safely crawl underneath before we are freed.

Unfortunately the Arriva train is still stuck fast and its passengers are left stranded as we begin to go backwards to Shrewsbury. Our guard throughout is calm and helpful and as we crawl to Shrewsbury he collects our details and tells us that station staff will be waiting in the forecourt with taxis. Experience suggests it may not be this easy and it is not. At 21.00 - three and a quarter hours after leaving Shrewsbury - we arrive back and there are no station staff and no taxis waiting.

Fortunately there is a duty manager who is surprised to see us because Shrewsbury is an Arriva station and although he had ordered a bus for the Arriva passengers, if they ever got back, he knew nothing about us because we were London Midland passengers and their control had not told his control. Neil, the Arriva employee, is a model of calm. He rings London Midland who seem confused but twenty minutes later they are back on the phone and give him permission to get us taxis to take us either home or to Wolverhampton and Birmingham. By now it's 21.30.

You would think, said another passenger to my wife, that after being stuck for over three hours they would a least give us some water. But she too wasn’t thinking straight. There is a refreshment room on Shrewsbury station. But don’t be silly. First, it was closed and second, even if Neil had the keys, it’s owned by the Lemon Tree ... one of over 400 outlets owned by SSP UK Rail Ltd, which include the Upper Crust, M & S Simply Food rail outlets and Victoria Wine and Threshers outlets. So taking water from them would have been a simple act of theft.

So, parched and frustrated we were eventually on our way, squashed into a taxi. But not just any taxi. We had to wait for one from the right contracted firm. We finally arrive home at Shifnal at 22.00, four and quarter hours after we first left Shrewsbury. But if you think this was bad spare a thought for the Arriva passengers and Neil having to deal with them. And spare a thought too for the passengers with onward connections. We don’t know what happened to the London-bound group. Hopefully they got the last train to London from Birmingham. But if they did and wanted to go further their problems were not at an end...

Our only comment: someone at Shrewsbury could perhaps have gone up the road and bought some water. We wonder what did eventually happen to the Arriva passengers.

And they want to run these clapped out 158s to London.:lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

www.nwrail.org.uk newspages

Thats the REAL face of privatisation.
 

driver9000

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Surely the driver could have just banged the units together and not pressed the Couple button and this would have given a mechanical only connection without to need to fanny about with the tommy bars.

As for manual uncoupling, how can you "ease up" onto another unit while electrically connected? If you've banged on without pulling the connector boxes back and then mistakenly hit the Couple button, how do you get yourself out of that little pickle? In this particular instance, the LM driver would need to split the air and electrical connections between the units before "easing up" could have been possible.



The drumswitches are thrown by compressed air when you hit the Couple button. However, the facility to manually throw the drumswitches is a quick and easy way of digging yourself out of a hole.

If the units in the situation described above had Tightlocks instead of BSI's they could have been split again in minutes. Once the error had been spotted the LM driver could have jumped down and thrown the drumswitches and, as soon as the air had built up again on his unit, they could have been split normally. All of this would have taken a matter of moments.

O L Leigh

Thanks for clearing my Tightlock query up.

The air connection is made on the BSI as soon as the couplers touch, if the other unit has low air the main res on the unit coupling up will drop to whatever the unit had stored in the res. Your right in saying that easing up wouldnt be possible without electrically uncoupling, I apologise for missing that off my post :oops:
 

O L Leigh

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The air connection is made on the BSI as soon as the couplers touch, if the other unit has low air the main res on the unit coupling up will drop to whatever the unit had stored in the res.

But presumably there is an air isolation cock somewhere on the coupler head...?

Your right in saying that easing up wouldnt be possible without electrically uncoupling, I apologise for missing that off my post :oops:

No need to apologise.

This is the bit I don't understand about BSI's. From reading this and one other account of an assisting DMU getting stranded with the failed unit it seems that, once the units have been banged together and the Couple button has been pressed, there is no way to split them electrically except to uncouple the units normally. Obviously this becomes tricky when, like here, one unit has a massive air leak that can't be kept up with and the brakes can't be got off either unit. I'm guessing that pressing Uncouple would normally effect an electrical and mechanical split but the air systems wouldn't split until the units have backed away from each other.

So in this situation, additional to what I've already said the drivers could have done, the LM driver should have isolated the air supply to the coupler head first before banging on mechanical only.

O L Leigh
 

driver9000

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But presumably there is an air isolation cock somewhere on the coupler head...?


This is the bit I don't understand about BSI's. From reading this and one other account of an assisting DMU getting stranded with the failed unit it seems that, once the units have been banged together and the Couple button has been pressed, there is no way to split them electrically except to uncouple the units normally. Obviously this becomes tricky when, like here, one unit has a massive air leak that can't be kept up with and the brakes can't be got off either unit. I'm guessing that pressing Uncouple would normally effect an electrical and mechanical split but the air systems wouldn't split until the units have backed away from each other.

So in this situation, additional to what I've already said the drivers could have done, the LM driver should have isolated the air supply to the coupler head first before banging on mechanical only.

O L Leigh

There is an emergency connection pipe on the headstock to fit the shraeder pipe to incase the star valve is missing or the adaptor coupler is in use, whether this would have been useful in this situation I couldnt say but from what I have read then it seems unlikely.

When the Uncouple button is pressed the air connection does remain attached until the units are taken apart, when they are split you can hear a small amount of air escape.
 
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