Keolis Amey Wales - Future Rolling Stock

[sw1ller]

Why? CAF will be looking for return on investment fairly quickly - if there is work from other sources which could be started right away then this would be the best way to do that.

I don’t disagree. I just want work on the new trains to start ASAP.

 

[krus_aragon]

Anyone else find this absurd?? (I trust you’re talking the truth, I just find that the factory is pumping out other TOCs units a bit crap. The welsh franchise should be prioritised at this location.)

First come, first served and all that. I'm sure that delivery deadlines will have been specified when Northern and WMT placed their orders. Politically/economically, getting the factory located in Wales was a success in and of itself.

I just want work on the new trains to start ASAP.

I can't blame you for that.

 

[samuelmorris]

Yeah I don't see an issue with it, the factory doesn't exist solely to serve TfW, it's to give CAF a UK manufacturing facility. The orders would still be fulfilled in the order they were placed

 

[sw1ller]

Fair enough, I know I was being a bit selfish. Just wondered if anyone else felt the same.

 

[anamyd]

In fact CAF is up and running producing the 195s. They have been doing so since November. TFW stock starts production August 2020 I believe. After West Midlands.

He knows now, he misread January 2018 as January 2019

 

[Josh Bussell]

Anyone else find this absurd?? (I trust you’re talking the truth, I just find that the factory is pumping out other TOCs units a bit crap. The welsh franchise should be prioritised at this location.)

Work atm is what was previously agreed on before the signing of the TFW contract. It's to support the factories in Spain.

 

[sw1ller]

Work atm is what was previously agreed on before the signing of the TFW contract. It's to support the factories in Spain.

Can’t argue against that. May I re phrase my comment? Should work start on the new trains before this planned date??? Wales has been too long forgotten.

 

[Josh Bussell]

Can’t argue against that. May I re phrase my comment? Should work start on the new trains before this planned date??? Wales has been too long forgotten.

I can 100% agree with you. Was on the "sir Tom jones" train the other day, old and long forgotten now. Fingers crossed CAF can get other contacts finished early so they can start TFW early.

 

[Dai Corner]

Can’t argue against that. May I re phrase my comment? Should work start on the new trains before this planned date??? Wales has been too long forgotten.

Work probably could start earlier, but not in Wales.

 

[Mikey C]

Slightly off topic, but impressed with how quickly CAF have got this factory up and running

 

[anamyd]

Anyone else find this absurd?? (I trust you’re talking the truth, I just find that the factory is pumping out other TOCs units a bit crap. The welsh franchise should be prioritised at this location.)

Why...? It's *the* CAF UK factory! They're building to order, in order. Northern even told people on their Twitter that most of the 195s will be assembled in Wales. Isn't Welsh product assembly even for other parts of the UK a good thing...? Last I heard the finance wasn't even sorted on the Welsh Civity DMUs...

 

[anamyd]

Slightly off topic, but impressed with how quickly CAF have got this factory up and running

I was initially underwhelmed by how quiet they were about it, but really it means they're just cracking on doesn't it!

 

[krus_aragon]

On reflection, Welsh politicians probably don't want to shout too loudly about the factory until they're building the TfW units, otherwise they could be inviting eager comments like @sw1ller's earlier (though maybe not as polite).

 

[tomos dafis]

Why...? It's *the* CAF UK factory! They're building to order, in order. Northern even told people on their Twitter that most of the 195s will be assembled in Wales. Isn't Welsh product assembly even for other parts of the UK a good thing...? Last I heard the finance wasn't even sorted on the Welsh Civity DMUs...

Indeed it is good economic news that trains are now being assembled in Wales for use in other parts of the uk as well as eventually for use in Wales.
It was also my understanding that finance for the TFW order for CAF dmu's is not yet finalised. Yet earlier in this thread someone claims that the order has now been placed and gives the name of the ROSCO financing the deal. However no reliable source for this information is given. (Sorry the claim is made in another thread) https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-diesel-stock.177292/#post-3848948

 

[anamyd]

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...BC7fCovyXSrWD6F2yw6TFAX6jlgCJfSZEhClEqHqyjQvk

Civity progress!

 

[CapitalStar378]

Although I wouldn't recommend light grey seats after seeing the state of the seats on the 800s

 

[anamyd]

Although I wouldn't recommend light grey seats after seeing the state of the seats on the 800s

The image on the article is just a rough mockup and the whole point of the article is that the interior design work is only just starting now; if you look at WMT's interior design contractor's document for the 196s it has all the paint finishes and seating/flooring materials in it. TfW and CAF are starting on all that stuff now

 

[anamyd]

Is there a water tight contract for the 170s to arrive in 2019?
With nearly all new rolling stock introductions seeming to take longer than advertised at the moment. I hope Anglia can't delay cascading the 170 s if the Flirts don't work out of the box.

All 12 Greater Anglia 170s go off-lease on the 1st of October 2019.

 

[Envoy]

I really do wonder if the general public will start moaning that proper long distance trains (175’s) with doors at the ends of coaches and good seats, have been replaced with more of a local commuter type of train with doors at thirds (letting in cold air) plus uncomfortable seats?

 

[krus_aragon]

I really do wonder if the general public will start moaning that proper long distance trains (175’s) with doors at the ends of coaches and good seats, have been replaced with more of a local commuter type of train with doors at thirds (letting in cold air) plus uncomfortable seats?

If you're referring to the 170s, they're going to be used mainly on SWML local services (Ebbw, Maesteg, and the like) before going to run West Wales local & HOWL services. Hardly any of those are currently operated by 175s.

It's a valid point for the new-build Civitys that will be replacing the 175s and 158s on long-distance services, though it's a bit early to declare that they will have uncomfortable seats. I don't think the internal fit-out has been finalised yet.

 

[PHILIPE]

If you're referring to the 170s, they're going to be used mainly on SWML local services (Ebbw, Maesteg, and the like) before going to run West Wales local & HOWL services. Hardly any of those are currently operated by 175s.

It's a valid point for the new-build Civitys that will be replacing the 175s and 158s on long-distance services, though it's a bit early to declare that they will have uncomfortable seats. I don't think the internal fit-out has been finalised yet.

175s are fairly frequent on there routes and have booked work over them

 

[Bletchleyite]

I really do wonder if the general public will start moaning that proper long distance trains (175’s) with doors at the ends of coaches and good seats, have been replaced with more of a local commuter type of train with doors at thirds (letting in cold air) plus uncomfortable seats?

As I've said many times before I prefer "doors at thirds" because of the easier access when busy, which trains inevitably are these days. Other than Gerald which is getting Mk4s, all the Welsh services are regional expresses for which this layout is totally suited.

 

[samuelmorris]

I don't recall there being comfort issues with 170 seats - I think that may be a more subjective seat complaint than about modern units. If the 196s have the same seating as 195s, however, I imagine such complaints will be far more justified. I wouldn't want to do Manchester to Milford Haven on an ironing board!

 

[Amaroussi]

I would not be surprised if future rolling stock were to come with moulded plastic or metal seats, presumably with a goal to “reduce vandalism” or “improve cleanliness”. That would be a sign of the rail operators being a bit too paranoid about safety and security.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't recall there being comfort issues with 170 seats - I think that may be a more subjective seat complaint than about modern units. If the 196s have the same seating as 195s, however, I imagine such complaints will be far more justified. I wouldn't want to do Manchester to Milford Haven on an ironing board!

Whereas I'd rather that than one of those Class 800 abominations, particularly if the ScotRail-style contoured base cushion is used. It's all very subjective.

 

[krus_aragon]

175s are fairly frequent on there routes and have booked work over them

Granted, but most services are operated by Pacers and 150s, are they not? A 170 compares favourably to either of those. In many regards, it's effectively a souped-up 150.

(When I took a two-hour journey on a Greater Anglia 170 last year, I found nothing disagreeable about their seats.)

 

[samuelmorris]

Whereas I'd rather that than one of those Class 800 abominations, particularly if the ScotRail-style contoured base cushion is used. It's all very subjective.

Me too. I wouldn't rate an 800 as much more suitable for that length of journey than an ironing board seat, I'd consider both inferior to a 170 in terms of comfort, though I'm not sure I could with stand 5 hours of Turbostar panel rattle either. I'm a picky customer

 

[PHILIPE]

Granted, but most services are operated by Pacers and 150s, are they not? A 170 compares favourably to either of those. In many regards, it's effectively a souped-up 150.

(When I took a two-hour journey on a Greater Anglia 170 last year, I found nothing disagreeable about their seats.)

Plenty of 158s also, several per day

 

[krus_aragon]

Plenty of 158s also, several per day

Hm. It seems the diagrams have changed more than I thought since I left the area.

 

[anamyd]

If you're referring to the 170s, they're going to be used mainly on SWML local services (Ebbw, Maesteg, and the like) before going to run West Wales local & HOWL services. Hardly any of those are currently operated by 175s.

It's a valid point for the new-build Civitys that will be replacing the 175s and 158s on long-distance services, though it's a bit early to declare that they will have uncomfortable seats. I don't think the internal fit-out has been finalised yet.

"real" interior design work on the new TfW CAF DMUs is only just starting around now; see posts 1245 and 1247