Kentish Town to Angerstein Wharf via Stratford

[class303]

On Saturday I saw a freight train crossing the River Lea near Tottenham Hale. Not a common sight. I assumed it had come through Tottenham Hale station but it seems it originated near Kentish Town.

I found the train on RTT http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H61630/2016/01/30/advanced

Where exactly are the Chruchyard sidings? Is it really necessary to run all the way to Stratford to run round the loop and back or is this due to some weekend engineering works elsewhere?

Many thanks

 

[ComUtoR]

OIs it really necessary to run all the way to Stratford to run round the loop and back or is this due to some weekend engineering works elsewhere?

Many thanks

I've never seen a freight in the core. Maybe they are not allowed through the core section.

 

[class303]

I've never seen a freight in the core. Maybe they are not allowed through the core section.

I can understand them going via Willesden junction and then the WLL to get to south London, makes sense. But is it really necessary to go from Kentish Town to Willesden Junction via Stratford?

 

[EM2]

Churchyard Sidings are just outside St Pancras. If you're at the country end of the high-level platforms, you can just about make them out on the left.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I've never seen a freight in the core. Maybe they are not allowed through the core section.

Totally banned - especially over Blackfriars Bridge and the approaching gradients would be a challenge from the Farringdon direction.

The odd engineering train has clearly gone through - but the ruling was - OLE off and earthed - and only class 31 / 33 allowed.

 

[EM2]

I've definitely seen 73s at St Pancras low level on engineering trains...

 

[ComUtoR]

But is it really necessary to go from Kentish Town to Willesden Junction via Stratford?

Same with the not being able to go through the core section. Possibly there is a route restriction somewhere. I don't sign that side so I am only guessing its route restricted.

 

[greatkingrat]

On Saturday I saw a freight train crossing the River Lea near Tottenham Hale. Not a common sight. I assumed it had come through Tottenham Hale station but it seems it originated near Kentish Town.

I found the train on RTT http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H61630/2016/01/30/advanced

Where exactly are the Chruchyard sidings? Is it really necessary to run all the way to Stratford to run round the loop and back or is this due to some weekend engineering works elsewhere?

Many thanks

The normal route appears to be via Cricklewood and the Dudding Hill line. Presumably there was some reason why that was not possible last weekend.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H61630/2016/02/06/advanced

 

[westcoaster]

The normal route appears to be via Cricklewood and the Dudding Hill line. Presumably there was some reason why that was not possible last weekend.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H61630/2016/02/06/advanced

The rail vac was hard at work on the Hendon lines behind cricklewood station.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Same with the not being able to go through the core section. Possibly there is a route restriction somewhere. I don't sign that side so I am only guessing its route restricted.

Looking at the relevant Sectional Appendices, the core is RA5 from Kentish Town Jn to the LNE/KSW boundary just North of Farringdon, then RA4 to the South portal of Snow Hill Tunnel, where it goes up to RA8.

31s, 33s (but not 33/0s or 33/1s) and 73s are permitted through the core (in Diesel mode only for the 73s), but subject to a 15mph speed restriction from Kentish Town through to Farringdon, and the OLE MUST be isolated and they're not allowed to stop under insulators less they damage the OLE.

 

[John Webb]

As Greatkingrat says, the normal route would have been via Dudding Hill to Acton, and then onto the West London Line and so to South London. It would seem this route was not available that day, so it reversed at Cricklewood, went round to Stratford and joined the (former) North London Line to get round to Willesden Junction where it could get onto the W London line.

There used to be a direct connection from St Pancras to the west-bound North London line, ('North London Incline') but this was closed in 1975 as part of the rationalisation of facilities with changes in goods traffic and the coming of electrification.

 

[westcoaster]

As Greatkingrat says, the normal route would have been via Dudding Hill to Acton, and then onto the West London Line and so to South London. It would seem this route was not available that day, so it reversed at Cricklewood, went round to Stratford and joined the (former) North London Line to get round to Willesden Junction where it could get onto the W London line.

There used to be a direct connection from St Pancras to the west-bound North London line, ('North London Incline') but this was closed in 1975 as part of the rationalisation of facilities with changes in goods traffic and the coming of electrification.

There is a connection from st Pancras to the westbound NLL but it's never used and it's only from the international platforms. ( iirc it was for stock moves to North Pole)

 

[DarloRich]

Totally banned - especially over Blackfriars Bridge and the approaching gradients would be a challenge from the Farringdon direction.

The odd engineering train has clearly gone through - but the ruling was - OLE off and earthed - and only class 31 / 33 allowed.

have 73's not been used? I am sure they have hauled test trains through the TL core

 

[BelleIsle]

Totally banned - especially over Blackfriars Bridge and the approaching gradients would be a challenge from the Farringdon direction.

The odd engineering train has clearly gone through - but the ruling was - OLE off and earthed - and only class 31 / 33 allowed.

How come? The old man used to trip coal trains from Ferme Park to Hither Green with pairs of 24s back in the day so it was possible once.

 

[eastwestdivide]

How come? The old man used to trip coal trains from Ferme Park to Hither Green with pairs of 24s back in the day so it was possible once.

The gradients are probably different now compared to then - there was a massive realignment of the through route at the Holborn viaduct area, about when Holborn Viaduct was closed and the original Thameslink opened. And of course no OLE back then.

 

[Deepgreen]

Looking at the relevant Sectional Appendices, the core is RA5 from Kentish Town Jn to the LNE/KSW boundary just North of Farringdon, then RA4 to the South portal of Snow Hill Tunnel, where it goes up to RA8.

31s, 33s (but not 33/0s or 33/1s) and 73s are permitted through the core (in Diesel mode only for the 73s), but subject to a 15mph speed restriction from Kentish Town through to Farringdon, and the OLE MUST be isolated and they're not allowed to stop under insulators less they damage the OLE.

Interesting - 73s on diesel mode are not going to be able to get much trailing load up the 1 in 29 to Blackfriars!

 

[Dr_Paul]

It does seem a very long way around, but presumably there isn't anywhere between Upper Holloway and South Tottenham for the loco to run around its train. Were that possible, it could have reversed there and gone via Willesden High Level. At least going via Stratford would ensure that no further reversing was necessary.
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The gradients are probably different now compared to then - there was a massive realignment of the through route at the Holborn viaduct area, about when Holborn Viaduct was closed and the original Thameslink opened. And of course no OLE back then.

Snow Hill up towards Blackfriars used to be 1 in 39, a banking engine was kept at the bottom to help goods trains get up it; since the rebuilding it's 1 in 29 up to Blackfriars.

 

[30907]

Snow Hill up towards Blackfriars used to be 1 in 39, a banking engine was kept at the bottom to help goods trains get up it; since the rebuilding it's 1 in 29 up to Blackfriars.

IIRC the original Blackfriars bridges that the freights and Ludgate Hill ECS used were pretty restricted for weight - which led to D1 4-4-0s surviving on the rare steam passengers out of Holborn (though they would have run via Blackfriars station.

 

[class303]

Thanks for the replies. Interesting. It had a 66 at the front and rear so I'm guessing reversing must have been easy enough.