Kennington turnback siding.

[busestrains]

If you look on the London Underground track map there is a turnback siding just south of Kennington that both the Bank branch and Charing Cross branch can access. I only just noticed this now when looking at the track map.

Does this turnback siding ever get any use? Is it just for emergencies or does it get used during engineering work or are there any trains scheduled to use it? Have any Kennington via Charing Cross trains ever reversed in the turnback siding instead of the usual loop? Have any Kennington via Bank trains ever operated and used the turnback siding?

 

[Dstock7080]

Yes the siding does get used, no scheduled reversers.
Sat 17 September two southbound via Bank trains around 13.00 observed using the siding

 

[greatkingrat]

In the past on Boxing Day they used to run Morden via Charing Cross and Kennington via Bank services as the West End was busier than the City and the frequency was low enough to allow trains to reverse using the siding. Not sure if that still happens?

 

[bramling]

If you look on the London Underground track map there is a turnback siding just south of Kennington that both the Bank branch and Charing Cross branch can access. I only just noticed this now when looking at the track map.

Does this turnback siding ever get any use? Is it just for emergencies or does it get used during engineering work or are there any trains scheduled to use it? Have any Kennington via Charing Cross trains ever reversed in the turnback siding instead of the usual loop? Have any Kennington via Bank trains ever operated and used the turnback siding?

Yes it’s often used for turning back late running trains on the Bank branch, especially during disruption.

Charing Cross trains do occasionally use it, perhaps if a train is running early, or occasionally for training purposes.

It is quite disruptive to use. Firstly trains need to be closed up before entering, which causes a slight delay, secondly it is 10 mph all the way in, which again is disruptive. Also anything going in or out from the Charing Cross branch needs to cross the Bank branch on the level.

The most common use is during any kind of problem on the Charing Cross branch. Southbound Kennington trains are often diverted via Bank, and will reverse either via the siding, or via the crossover at Stockwell. Needless to say this is disruptive, and will cause serious late running if it goes on for longer than a few trains.

 

[philthetube]

I am fairly sure Kennington is a double length siding, though with fixed reed lights half way down, this is/was available to use if a push out* was needed, I recall this once in around 1999.

*one train rescuing a bread down by coupling up and pushing it.

 

[bramling]

I am fairly sure Kennington is a double length siding, though with fixed reed lights half way down, this is/was available to use if a push out* was needed, I recall this once in around 1999.

*one train rescuing a bread down by coupling up and pushing it.

Yes it is. Engineers trains still touch the second half, however it’s pretty much unheard of for a 95 stock to go there. Even if a push out were happening, I’m not sure they would go to the bother nowadays of putting the train in there.

 

[Basil Jet]

I am fairly sure Kennington is a double length siding, though with fixed reed lights half way down, this is/was available to use if a push out* was needed, I recall this once in around 1999.

*one train rescuing a bread down by coupling up and pushing it.

Is there a driver in the front one able to apply brakes to both of them?

 

[busestrains]

Many thanks for the replies and information. Good to know it gets some use. Looking at the map i see Tooting Broadway has a similar turnback siding? Does this one get any scheduled use or is it the same as Kennington and is only used occasionally?

 

[bramling]

Many thanks for the replies and information. Good to know it gets some use. Looking at the map i see Tooting Broadway has a similar turnback siding? Does this one get any scheduled use or is it the same as Kennington and is only used occasionally?

Can’t remember if there’s anything booked to use it (the WTTs are online if anyone wants to check!), however it does see pretty regular use during late running or disruption. Can make up about 15 minutes of late running on a Morden train, albeit not if the train has a relief booked at Morden.

 

[Central]

Was a notorious WTT in the 70s that used all the reversing points off peak & weekends so short tripping to mitigate late running was almost impossible.

 

[Enthusiast]

Looking at the map i see Tooting Broadway has a similar turnback siding?

That turnback siding was the location of a fatal accident in May 1971. The train ran through the sand drag, colliding with the tunnel dead-end and the driver was killed:

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoE_Tooting1971.pdf

 

[Basil Jet]

That turnback siding was the location of a fatal accident in May 1971. The train ran through the sand drag, colliding with the tunnel dead-end and the driver was killed:

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoE_Tooting1971.pdf

It's a shame that Moorgate had to happen before the lesson was learned.

 

[Busaholic]

ain ran through the sand drag, colliding with the tunnel dead-end and the driver was killed:

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoE_Tooting1971.pdf

It was the location of an earlier accident on 7th October 1960, in which the motorman was injured, as e result of which a sand drag was quickly introduced. AFAIK no official report was forthcoming, probably because London Transport saw fit to keep news of it in house'. I think orange warning lights in tube sidings may also have directly followed the 'incident', that being a classic word to cover pretty well everything. Sorry. can't quote a source because I found out about it when I was working at Cobourg Street as a trainee when the 1971 accident happened, and made a note of it which I kept.

 

[Enthusiast]

It was the location of an earlier accident on 7th October 1960, ...

Yes, it was mentioned in the report into the 1971 incident, but as you say, it seems there was no formal investigation.

 

[philthetube]

Yes it is. Engineers trains still touch the second half, however it’s pretty much unheard of for a 95 stock to go there. Even if a push out were happening, I’m not sure they would go to the bother nowadays of putting the train in there.

Happened in the late 1990's There was a conductor rail defect which left a good few 95 stock trains marooned in various sidings without shoes, they were retrieved over the following week by night crews and available managers.

I know this is off topic but I hope you will find it interesting.

I was the driver of the defective train though I had very little to do.

A possession was taken for these moves.

The train at the front was dragged out with no issues but when the following train came to be rescued it was realised that the train had not been shut down and the batteries were completely dead, it was left there for plans to be made to rescue the following night.

The following night it was coupled to an assisting train, we then discovered the the "Back to back " radios did not work through the length of a train while it is in a tunnel and as the defective train had no battery power the usual comms could not be used.

The trains coupled up and the parking brakes removed*, a member of staff positioned in every car ready to reapply in emergency

All points were secured for the route out of the siding and The trip cocks were cut out on both trains which allowed the trains to run through red signals. This also restricts trains to 10mph.

The train was dragged out of Kennington into the NB platform, and a little way up the bank branch to allow 12 cars to clear the points. I have no idea why not the SB platform.

We then set up for the trip south, fortunately the route from Kennington to Morden is uphill so there was little risk of a breakaway, though 95 stock couplers did not have a good reputation.

1 member of staff in every car to apply brakes if needed and also to relay messages to the rear train if needed, three in the cab, me, a train tech and a senior signaller.

My instructions were to ignore any red signals and to shout if I felt anything was going wrong.

The assisting train the pushed us to Morden depot, wrong road to Stockwell then over the points, which were signalled for me but which had also been secured just in case they did something strange after the first train has crossed them. There is always a possibility that legacy signalling may do something strange when not being used as designed.

Then on to Morden, no problems anywhere on route, the only signal I had to pass at danger was the shunt signal into the depot at Morden, this could not be cleared until the train is fully berthed in the platform and a 12 car would not fit.

We did have concerns about the train climbing the hill to the depot but no problems.

All in all a fun night.

Is there a driver in the front one able to apply brakes to both of them?

No the only electrical between trains is a communication cable.