Keir Starmer and the Labour Party

[NorthOxonian]

The death warrant is signed for low-end white-collar jobs too, artificial intelligence to replace them, eg self-service ATM machines which can read and bank cheques, those lower middle-class occupations such as bank teller, are an endangered species, note how many small towns do not possess any banks with staff. We need to do some serious thinking as to the direction of employment in our society is heading. I used to think of those who advocate Universal Income as idealistic cranks, but nowadays I'm not so sure.

I think we have to see the trend as an opportunity - after all, one of our other major crises is an aging population meaning fewer and fewer people will be of working age. So if the number of jobs falls, that isn't necessarily a bad thing* - it could mitigate against labour shortages as people shift between industries and roles.

* though it certainly can be very bad - if a lot of jobs go at once or all in the same location, so this is a process we'd have to manage

 

[Yew]

I think we have to see the trend as an opportunity - after all, one of our other major crises is an aging population meaning fewer and fewer people will be of working age. So if the number of jobs falls, that isn't necessarily a bad thing* - it could mitigate against labour shortages as people shift between industries and roles.

* though it certainly can be very bad - if a lot of jobs go at once or all in the same location, so this is a process we'd have to manage

My worry is that in this situation, we're talking about potentially losing a lot of well-paid and/or high quality jobs. I do wonder if we need to start considering taxing AI produced value.

 

[Broucek]

The death warrant is signed for low-end white-collar jobs too, artificial intelligence to replace them, eg self-service ATM machines which can read and bank cheques, those lower middle-class occupations such as bank teller, are an endangered species, note how many small towns do not possess any banks with staff. We need to do some serious thinking as to the direction of employment in our society is heading. I used to think of those who advocate Universal Income as idealistic cranks, but nowadays I'm not so sure.

This isn't a UK thing. It's global. The technologists say that new tech has always led to the creation of new, better jobs. But that was when back-breaking, dirty jobs on farms and in industry were being replaced. Bank teller is a decent job... (mind you, a lot of banks have had staff shortages!)

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes the mantra has always been with tech that new jobs will always replace new jobs, but is that a given or will there come a "disruption" (maybe AI or whatever is next) which will end this "rule"? I think we need to be very careful and plans to roll out in such an eventuality.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As an aside, on the subject of the thread, is it possible that Nicola Sturgeon's resignation will mean things going less wrong for Labour in Scotland, depending on the quality or otherwise of her replacement?

 

[Cross City]

As an aside, on the subject of the thread, is it possible that Nicola Sturgeon's resignation will mean things going less wrong for Labour in Scotland, depending on the quality or otherwise of her replacement?

Yeah this could be big for Labour in Scotland, especailly if they offer something like Devo-Max in the next manifesto. There is no obvious successor to Sturgeon.

 

[brad465]

As an aside, on the subject of the thread, is it possible that Nicola Sturgeon's resignation will mean things going less wrong for Labour in Scotland, depending on the quality or otherwise of her replacement?

Long term potentially, although today's relatively good news for Labour has just been dwarfed by that particular announcement.

 

[nw1]

My worry is that in this situation, we're talking about potentially losing a lot of well-paid and/or high quality jobs. I do wonder if we need to start considering taxing AI produced value.

Indeed, those seeking higher profit for less expenditure love the concept of AI replacing jobs, but what about the rest of us?

Don't get me wrong, as someone who has coding skills myself and find genuinely innovative technology exciting, I am a great believer in the use of technology to improve our lives and offer exciting innovations, but the important bit is the last seven words. "Improve our lives and offer exciting innovations".

Anything which leads to a significant loss of high-quality and relatively well-paid jobs needs to be treated with caution. It's all very well saying that there's plenty on offer elsewhere but are the pay, terms and conditions as good as the lost jobs?

 

[The Ham]

This isn't a UK thing. It's global. The technologists say that new tech has always led to the creation of new, better jobs. But that was when back-breaking, dirty jobs on farms and in industry were being replaced. Bank teller is a decent job... (mind you, a lot of banks have had staff shortages!)

Whilst I know that the past isn't always a predictor of what will happen, the development of spreadsheets meant that a lot of financial clerks lost their jobs as anyone could fill in the financial information easily.

However that lead to the need for far more accountants to audit the accounts which were being created, as they were being created in far larger numbers than before.

At face value the loss of those roles looked bad, however ultimately it resulted in more and higher paid roles being created.

Banks are likely to continue to need customer facing (at least engaging) staff, so there's likely to be a shift towards fewer branches created by not having to replace staff losses as fast as they once did. The remaining roles are likely to be the higher level roles, for instance financial service advice.

Of course there's a risk that it becomes harder to get into such a good role if you didn't do well at school and there's a risk that we could automate too many jobs. However as almost all our recent population growth has been within the 65+ age group, the latter isn't as big a risk for us as other countries.

 

[brad465]

Interesting situation being reported from Sky, apparently Sue Gray is set to resign from the Civil Service and take up a position in the Labour party as Chief of Staff:

https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1631310391887142912

EXCL: Sue Gray has been appointed chief of staff to Labour leader Keir Starmer. As a senior civil servant, the job offer will be subject to ACOBA process before formal confirmation. Major coup for the Labour leader and part of an effort to prove the party is preparing for govt.

 

[brad465]

Diane Abbott has had the whip suspended pending an investigation into an Observer article she's written on racism. She has issued an apology, although I've seen some suggest this makes it worse. Given she's been a thorn in Starmer's side ever since he became leader, this could be a good excuse to jettison her like with Corbyn:

Diane Abbott suspended as Labour MP after racism letter

The MP says she apologises "for any anguish caused" and wishes to "unreservedly" withdraw her remarks.

www.bbc.co.uk

Diane Abbott suspended as Labour MP pending investigation into a letter she wrote about racism for the Observer, party says

 

[ainsworth74]

Given she's been a thorn in Starmer's side ever since he became leader

She's been a thorn in the side of Labour generally for quite a while longer than he's been leader...

 

[Bantamzen]

Diane Abbott has had the whip suspended pending an investigation into an Observer article she's written on racism. She has issued an apology, although I've seen some suggest this makes it worse. Given she's been a thorn in Starmer's side ever since he became leader, this could be a good excuse to jettison her like with Corbyn:

Diane Abbott suspended as Labour MP after racism letter

The MP says she apologises "for any anguish caused" and wishes to "unreservedly" withdraw her remarks.

www.bbc.co.uk

What a Muppet!! I particularly like how she thinks that because it was a draft letter its all OK and she can just say sorry. But it just goes to prove just how broken UK politics is right now, idiots left, right and centre. Its almost like Spitting Imagine came to life...

 

[DustyBin]

Away from the (not entirely unjustified) Tory bashing, and further to my recent posts about Diane Abbott, I see she has managed to get herself suspended from the Labour Party. How on earth does such an odious and divisive character, seemingly with the IQ of a boiled potato to boot, become (and remain as) a Member of Parliament?

Will those criticising the likes of Raab, Braverman and Anderson see past party politics, and agree that Abbott is as equally unfit to be an MP?

 

[takno]

Away from the (not entirely unjustified) Tory bashing, and further to my recent posts about Diane Abbott, I see she has managed to get herself suspended from the Labour Party. How on earth does such an odious and divisive character, seemingly with the IQ of a boiled potato to boot, become (and remain as) a Member of Parliament?

Will those criticising the likes of Raab, Braverman and Anderson see past party politics, and agree that Abbott is as equally unfit to be an MP?

No, or at least I should clarify that Dianne Abbott was a moderately annoying but reasonably dedicated backbench MP who probably never really merited promotion to the shadow front bench. She was also a much better MP 10-15 years ago, doesn't appear to be coping with increasing ill-health, and at this point hasn't got the flexibility to cope with Corbyn's rapid rise and fall, or to stay on top of political life generally.

She should probably have retired at the last election, but probably didn't feel it was the time. Judging from the specific things which led to the suspension, at this point it appears that she's struggling to compose her thoughts well, and unfortunately still retains an audience which is expecting better. Much like Corbyn, it's clear that she shouldn't be standing at the next election because the Labour party should have better talent to put before the electorate.

I've got no particular concerns about Raab as an MP, I just don't think he's cabinet material. I'm not sure I'd accede to the notion that Braverman or Anderson have ever had much to contribute at any level.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Will those criticising the likes of Raab, Braverman and Anderson see past party politics, and agree that Abbott is as equally unfit to be an MP

No, because she’s a good MP. She’s not abusive, she’s not nasty, she’s not an a-hole to her staff, she’s not ignorant of her constituents. I don’t agree with her politically, but that doesn’t mean I think she’s a bad MP.

There are several in the Labour Party who *are* those things yet they don’t receive 10% of the abuse Abbott does. Look at someone like Neil Coyle and what he did, yet you don’t hear people describing him as a “boiled potato”. Same with the likes of Ian Lavery.

I can’t help but wonder what it is about an opinionated black woman that gets some people’s backs up.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Given she's been a thorn in Starmer's side ever since he became leader, this could be a good excuse to jettison her like with Corbyn

I’d say that that’s pretty much on the ball. Let the loose cannon roll over the side of the ship. But her letter was both dumb and wrong.

I have to laugh at the Tories criticising her for saying Travellers don’t experience racism, though, as that’s a standard trope of the right.

 

[Thirteen]

No, or at least I should clarify that Dianne Abbott was a moderately annoying but reasonably dedicated backbench MP who probably never really merited promotion to the shadow front bench. She was also a much better MP 10-15 years ago, doesn't appear to be coping with increasing ill-health, and at this point hasn't got the flexibility to cope with Corbyn's rapid rise and fall, or to stay on top of political life generally.

She should probably have retired at the last election, but probably didn't feel it was the time. Judging from the specific things which led to the suspension, at this point it appears that she's struggling to compose her thoughts well, and unfortunately still retains an audience which is expecting better. Much like Corbyn, it's clear that she shouldn't be standing at the next election because the Labour party should have better talent to put before the electorate.

I've got no particular concerns about Raab as an MP, I just don't think he's cabinet material. I'm not sure I'd accede to the notion that Braverman or Anderson have ever had much to contribute at any level.

Hackney's a safe Labour seat so there's no real danger of it being lost but I do agree that maybe that it's time for her to step down and retire from political life at the next election.

 

[nw1]

Will those criticising the likes of Raab, Braverman and Anderson see past party politics, and agree that Abbott is as equally unfit to be an MP?

In the light of this story, yes - sadly. I never had a problem with Abbott until now, but this is too serious a matter to let go. I think profound ignorance and stupidity rather than malice was the cause, but I suspect that few Jewish people are going to be comfortable with her as an MP now.

 

[Broucek]

I read a biography of Corbyn a while back. He comes over as a pretty decent bloke (and I say that as someone who usually votes Conservative) but with a HUGE blindspot about anti semitism. (Oh, and zero leadership skills.)

 

[nw1]

I read a biography of Corbyn a while back. He comes over as a pretty decent bloke (and I say that as someone who usually votes Conservative) but with a HUGE blindspot about anti semitism. (Oh, and zero leadership skills.)

I do wonder if the last election would have gone differently had Corbyn taken a much stricter line against antisemitism.

 

[AM9]

I do wonder if the last election would have gone differently had Corbyn taken a much stricter line against antisemitism.

I doubt that would have made much of a difference.

 

[Yew]

I do wonder if the last election would have gone differently had Corbyn taken a much stricter line against antisemitism.

The leader does not have the authority within the Labour Party to make such decisions on internal discipline, the organisation doesn't work that way.

 

[jfollows]

The leader does not have the authority within the Labour Party to make such decisions on internal discipline, the organisation doesn't work that way.

True, but leadership doesn’t necessarily come from authority, and Corbyn is not a leader, as already said. Labour elected itself a round peg in a square hole.
I voted Labour as the lesser of two evils, but always pretty much despised Corbyn. Just not as much as I despise …..

 

[GS250]

The political right wing will absolutely lap this opportunity up. When certain left wing MP's spend an awful lot of their time bringing up issues of racial equality, any chance to reverse the argument onto them will be taken with pleasure.

 

[jfollows]

No, because she’s a good MP. She’s not abusive, she’s not nasty, she’s not an a-hole to her staff, she’s not ignorant of her constituents. I don’t agree with her politically, but that doesn’t mean I think she’s a bad MP.

There are several in the Labour Party who *are* those things yet they don’t receive 10% of the abuse Abbott does. Look at someone like Neil Coyle and what he did, yet you don’t hear people describing him as a “boiled potato”. Same with the likes of Ian Lavery.

I can’t help but wonder what it is about an opinionated black woman that gets some people’s backs up.

Yes, I find Dianne Abbott gets my back up, she’s really annoying and irritates me enormously, but I have come to realise it’s because she’s opinionated and strident (and black) and that it’s my problem that she annoys me, not hers for being what she is. My failing, not hers. At least I have become self-aware enough to recognise this!

 

[Broucek]

Yes, I find Dianne Abbott gets my back up, she’s really annoying and irritates me enormously, but I have come to realise it’s because she’s opinionated and strident (and black) and that it’s my problem that she annoys me, not hers for being what she is. My failing, not hers. At least I have become self-aware enough to recognise this!

I get that too. But I don't think putting her forward to become Home Secretary was a particularly good idea... (what is it about that department?!!!!)

 

[jfollows]

I get that too. But I don't think putting her forward to become Home Secretary was a particularly good idea... (what is it about that department?!!!!)

Home Secretaries become seduced by the people they work with over time, so even if they don't believe it to start with they end up believing the nonsense they are peddled by the police forces and security services, and end up doing things like repeatedly allowing police to use stop and search without pretext in Greater London (Jack Straw) or having vans drive around telling people to go home. It affects politicians of all hues, it's just that Labour ones usually start off worse and get even worse.
EDIT And I'm not saying that the police etc. are usually wrong, it's just that it's down to the Home Secretary to listen to them and make a decision, which has to take other things into account, but by the time they've been doing the job for too long they get their perspective distorted by the constant worrying by the police etc.

 

[DustyBin]

I can’t help but wonder what it is about an opinionated black woman that gets some people’s backs up.

Same here.

I'm sure you'll agree though that the use of divisive, and one could argue racist language is unacceptable regardless of who's using it?

In the light of this story, yes - sadly. I never had a problem with Abbott until now, but this is too serious a matter to let go. I think profound ignorance and stupidity rather than malice was the cause, but I suspect that few Jewish people are going to be comfortable with her as an MP now.

Possibly, but she has form in this regard.... Either way I think your position is admirable; we all need to call this kind of thing out regardless of which "side" we're on.

Yes, I find Dianne Abbott gets my back up, she’s really annoying and irritates me enormously, but I have come to realise it’s because she’s opinionated and strident (and black) and that it’s my problem that she annoys me, not hers for being what she is. My failing, not hers. At least I have become self-aware enough to recognise this!

I think you're being rather hard on yourself to be honest (see above).

 

[GS250]

So....in spite of the Tories being in a terrible state, it appears that projected opinion polls are pointing towards a Labour largest party.

Is that a glowing endorsement of Starmer or Labour?

A year ago the talk was of a Labour landslide.