Keeping to the Timetable..

[Pumbaa]

The Liverpool services out of Euston are interesting. They follow the Birmingham service which calls at Rugby as far as Rugby. The turnout from the DF to the platform and DF Coventry at Rugby is 65? Most drivers seem to know the timetable, and will ease off the power before Rugby and go sailing through to Liverpool unchecked. Those drivers who keep at linespeed inevitably get caught by a restrictive aspect and you get checked.

 

[LE Greys]

Cerainly years ago all SNCF trains (even steam) had a Flaman speed recorder known as l'espion or the spy, and arriving on time was a matter of pride, and any early or late running had to be explained to the powers that be, even obtaining signatures from the chef de Gare who controlled the signals.

A4s had exactly the same thing. A number of traces have survived, including the very last run of the Coronation. It shows that the train often departed Newcastle up to five minutes early, and did in this case, to ensure an on-time arrival at King's Cross. Presumably, the two-hour schedule from Edinburgh was easier to get ahead of, and there was usually a crew change at Newcastle.

 

[The Planner]

The Liverpool services out of Euston are interesting. They follow the Birmingham service which calls at Rugby as far as Rugby. The turnout from the DF to the platform and DF Coventry at Rugby is 65? Most drivers seem to know the timetable, and will ease off the power before Rugby and go sailing through to Liverpool unchecked. Those drivers who keep at linespeed inevitably get caught by a restrictive aspect and you get checked.

Well known foible of the Rugby project, the flashing aspects were put in for P2 apparently and not P1. Therefore the EBWs get knocked when going into P1 !! With everything so close to each other the Liverpool sees the knock on effect.

 

[D1009]

All train drivers are professional

That's why I qualified the word "professional"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Most drivers are like that. Its route knowledge, isn't it? I always try to match my speed to the train in front. I tend to have a reasonable idea of what is in front of me just because I have been doing the job for a number of years and can make an assumption as to how fast he is going. I can then try to drive at the speed where I see yellows or double yellows turning into greens as I approach. I try not to go slower than that because then I am potentially causing problems for the guys behind me.

Timetable knowledge rather than route kmowledge, surely ? A good example of that must be the Pretendolino on a Friday. That leaves Euston at 1843 timed at 125 but only capable (or allowed depending on the driver) to do 110. This stops at Milton Keynes. The 1846 Pendo follows it, first stop Rugby, so the driver must see it leave Euston in front of him. He presumably works speed up until he can see double yellows ahead clearing to green but then eases back. Have I got that right?

 

[DownSouth]

Timetable knowledge rather than route kmowledge, surely ?

Sounds like both!

A good example of that must be the Pretendolino on a Friday. That leaves Euston at 1843 timed at 125 but only capable (or allowed depending on the driver) to do 110. This stops at Milton Keynes. The 1846 Pendo follows it, first stop Rugby, so the driver must see it leave Euston in front of him. He presumably works speed up until he can see double yellows ahead clearing to green but then eases back. Have I got that right?

That sounds like a strange timetable to have a slower train with an earlier stop departing ahead of the faster one, you may as well give the second one the same earlier stop as well to improve access to the service. Why is it that way, pathing further along the route?

 

[Pumbaa]

Sounds like both!

That sounds like a strange timetable to have a slower train with an earlier stop departing ahead of the faster one, you may as well give the second one the same earlier stop as well to improve access to the service. Why is it that way, pathing further along the route?

I doubt it will stay that way for long. Should revert to 390 operation once the full complement is up and running.

Is the 1843 looped at MK? I can't remember.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Last time I used the 18.43 it was looped between Euston and Camden!

 

[moggie]

Well known foible of the Rugby project, the flashing aspects were put in for P2 apparently and not P1. Therefore the EBWs get knocked when going into P1 !! With everything so close to each other the Liverpool sees the knock on effect.

Not actually true - the flashing sequence applies to the Down side, down direction junction signal protecting Hillmorton Junction for routes across to the Up side. The thinking being that when working Down trains via the Up side (when the Down side is under posession), the need to keep them moving through Hillmorton Jcn when operating in a planned constrained situation was vital to weekend timetabling when operating in these situation.

The junction signal protecting the facing points into platform 1 and 2 also acts as the outer flashing YY for the flashing sequence for Trent Valley Junction, hence, when considered with the flashing sequence in rear the diversion into platforms 1 or 2 can only be signalled using Approach Release from Red (intermixing of flashing sequences forbidden).

There are other technical reasons which also serve to add a few more seconds delay before the plat 1 / 2 junction signal can commence clearing which doesn't help. Believe me, this situation was given a lot of attention to squeeze out vital seconds from the signalling system. A more generous interpretation of junction signalling timed release standard would help but alas.......

 

[Pumbaa]

Last time I used the 18.43 it was looped between Euston and Camden!

I am fairly sure it's looped when running 90+Mk3s, thanks for confirming. They don't want it chewing up time of trains behind it, so it gets looped to allow the following 1846 pass it and not snarl up others.

A problem (open to correction here) is that looping it in MK P5 is on a controlled turn-off, so the 1846 following it and routed on the DF through P6 will still get checked. Still, I think that's the best solution anyhow.

 

[TGV]

All the (excellent) answers so far have been based on traditional lineside signals, so if I may give a perspective from in-cab (specifically TVM) signalling.

TGVs make relatively few stops (or in many cases - none other than the final destination), and while on classic lines the same driving techniques are used as described above by many drivers. In France, the basic signalling repetition systems (analogous to AWS in the UK) are BRS and TBL1. Then there are speed monitoring systems with beacons (TBL2 and KVB) and finally there is the continuous in cab speed monitoring signalling system (TVM - either TVM300 or more commonly TVM430 - also used on high speed line in Belgium and CTRL in the UK.

When on TGV lines and the TVM has armed, the situation changes a little. For those who don't know, TVM displays the speed information the driver should be driving to. This could be the maximum speed on a clear line that is permitted (known as voie libre or "free line" shown as black digits on a square green background). Or it could be a warning of a restriction which could be temporary due to catching up with a preceding train, or could be permanent as you approach a junction with that restriction or the end of the LGV. This is known as Avertissement and is shown in the "Annonce" area of the TVM display. It is usually the speed digits displayed in black on a white diamond shaped background that flash. White numbers on a black square background are to indicate to maintain that restriction (rather than to reduce speed to it). Finally a red indication will either be "zero" (three zeros on a red diamond background) which means stop at next marker or three red squares - stop NOW - wherever you are.

When on TGV track, the driver doesn't even need to look out the windscreen as all the information they need is displayed in front of them. However, to answer the original question, they still have a list of passing points and times that gives them an idea of how close to time they are keeping. It is usually km points and/or junctions or stations. They don't use it as an absolute because the TVM is their main guide. Arriving early isn't a problem.

Normally, if the line limit is 300km/h, the timetable can be kept while travelling no more than 290 or so. The train has "vitesse impose" or in automotive terms - cruise control. It is driver's discretion whether or not to use this, but if they do, they will normally set it somewhere between 290 and 295 on a 300 line. It is rare for a driver to hover manually around 300km/h (or 320 if that is the voie libre) unless they are running late. The extreme gradients on these lines (up to 1 in 40) mean that on a down grade, if the train is already at 300 or 320, overspeeding would be very easy, so the driver would have to be quick with the rheo to prevent it. The system will allow a small amount of overspeed (from memory, 315 on a 300 line), but while that is permitted as far as the train is concerned, it is very much frowned upon if it is frequent and any overspeeding is logged on the atess recorder.

For slowing down, there is a speed control curve that the TVM has imposed when displaying avertissement. This invisible curve is the maximum speed that the system will allow the driver to control the speed to. If the driver exceeds this by braking too little or too late, there will be an automatic emergency brake application. Driving close to this in order to squeeze a few extra seconds out of your times is known as "surfing the curve" and again, is risky and frowned upon. In that respect, it is very similar to what O L Leigh described in reducing speed earlier and allowing the thing to coast where possible in preparation for either a further reduction, stop or of course an increase allowed. It is also a more energy friendly way to drive.

That all said - route knowledge is still important. On several areas such as Coubert bifurcation or approach to Lille Europe, drivers will often shut off power even when the TVM is showing 300 voie libre because they know where they are and that by coasting down they will have a nice smooth journey down to the restriction without having to brake significantly at the indication and without losing any noticable time.
So in many ways, I suppose, driving a TGV at 300 or 320km/h isn't too different to driving a 317 on a Liverpool St stopper.

So that's a "brief" intro to in cab signalling from a TGV/TVM point of view. JR and DB systems are similar in nature, but have key differences. Perhaps someone else with experience of them can elaborate on that, but I hope this has been of interest based on the original question.

 

[notadriver]

In my humble opinion, driving trains under any form of cab signalling is vastly different from conventional signals. You don't need to remember speed limits, what your last signal was, where your next signal is etc.

 

[TGV]

I agree with that 100%. What I was referring to was the application of route knowledge to the way and times that you apply power and brakes. That is very similar. You could be under greens (or at 300kmh voie libre) and begin decelerating because you know where you are and what is coming up.

 

[The Planner]

The junction signal protecting the facing points into platform 1 and 2 also acts as the outer flashing YY for the flashing sequence for Trent Valley Junction, hence, when considered with the flashing sequence in rear the diversion into platforms 1 or 2 can only be signalled using Approach Release from Red (intermixing of flashing sequences forbidden).

There are other technical reasons which also serve to add a few more seconds delay before the plat 1 / 2 junction signal can commence clearing which doesn't help. Believe me, this situation was given a lot of attention to squeeze out vital seconds from the signalling system. A more generous interpretation of junction signalling timed release standard would help but alas.......

Interesting, as when LM did the 110mph test runs, the route into P2 when set out on to the down slow to Trent Valley was much much quicker than when set to the down fast. I know the signal at the end is approach released at the end of P2 to the DF but it must alter the down approach into P2 when set forward.

 

[455driver]

'A lazy driver is a better driver' is what I've always been taught...

I must be %+$@ing brilliant then!