Keeping the Customer Informed.

[Furryanimal]

This is a new one on me....from the TFW journey check


20/11/22 19:43 Cardiff Central to Maesteg due 20:35 will be cancelled.
This is due to Unspecified delays

 

[Ashley Hill]

Either there is multiple delays that are hard to explain to the public,eg- traincrew delayed travelling on a GWR service that is stuck at a signal due to multiple track circuit failures. Perhaps failed on shed waiting parts. Or they don’t know what the delay is.

 

[uww11x]

Either there is multiple delays that are hard to explain to the public,eg- traincrew delayed travelling on a GWR service that is stuck at a signal due to multiple track circuit failures. Perhaps failed on shed waiting parts. Or they don’t know what the delay is.

There's always a cause for a delay/cancellation. To say it's unknown is simply not true.

 

[zwk500]

There's always a cause for a delay/cancellation. To say it's unknown is simply not true.

The cause of a delay may not be known for some time. Railway controllers aren't clairvoyant.
Just because something exists doesn't mean it is known, or passed on for the right people to act on it.

 

[AlterEgo]

The cause of a delay may not be known for some time. Railway controllers aren't clairvoyant.
Just because something exists doesn't mean it is known, or passed on for the right people to act on it.

Indeed. If a train is stopped in a section or has lost significant time and not responding, the cause of the delay may well be unknown.

 

[uww11x]

Indeed. If a train is stopped in a section or has lost significant time and not responding, the cause of the delay may well be unknown.

Having worked in TDA for numerous years, finding the cause is relatively easy

 

[zwk500]

Having worked in TDA for numerous years, finding the cause is relatively easy

But it may not be known immediately, and when it is known disseminating the information to the required people can take a few minutes.

But your basic premise was flawed:

There's always a cause for a delay/cancellation. To say it's unknown is simply not true.

Something existing (the cause) is completely independent of it being known. It can be perfectly true to say that there is a cause for the delay, but that they don't know what it is yet.

 

[The Planner]

Having worked in TDA for numerous years, finding the cause is relatively easy

Why is there ZZ delay then? And why do people reattribute, i've done it enough.

 

[High Dyke]

Neatly dovetailing into this thread, I've noticed this. NRE is showing disruption between Chinley & Edale, due to a tunnel inspection that is affecting Northern, TPE and EMR services. However, EMR services are not running between Sheffield and Stockport, due to planned engineering - according to EMR twitter.

NRE also states that EMR services are only operating between Sheffield and Norwich, but EMR state that train services are not operating between Nottingham and Ely, again due to planned engineering work. So my point is, how are everyday passengers supposed to know or understand when conflicting information is being supplied.

 

[uww11x]

But it may not be known immediately, and when it is known disseminating the information to the required people can take a few minutes.

But your basic premise was flawed:

Something existing (the cause) is completely independent of it being known. It can be perfectly true to say that there is a cause for the delay, but that they don't know what it is yet.

I've just checked 2L63 and it's shown as a planned cancellation (PG),so the internal reason was known by at least 22:00 the night before.

Why is there ZZ delay then? And why do people reattribute, i've done it enough.

If used correctly ZZ would be a for 1 to 2 minute self delay which didn't delay anything else. Thus not warranting the investigation from the NR Level 1 point a view.

 

[zwk500]

I've just checked 2L63 and it's shown as a planned cancellation (PG),so the internal reason was known by at least 22:00 the night before.

Well then in this case they got it wrong and failed to make sure the correct information was sent downstream.

 

[AlterEgo]

Having worked in TDA for numerous years, finding the cause is relatively easy

Not immediately it isn’t. I’ve also worked in Control.

 

[py_megapixel]

Even if it's possible to find the cause with a few minutes' investigation, it is better to publish the information then add the reason in later than to mislead passengers by withholding the information until a reason is available.

And if there is severe disruption, then as a passenger, I'd much rather have every delay/cancellation detailed accurately than some trains with inaccurate information because they weren't updated because the people responsible were too busy investigating delay reasons.

 

[43066]

Even if it's possible to find the cause with a few minutes' investigation, it is better to publish the information then add the reason in later than to mislead passengers by withholding the information until a reason is available.

And if there is severe disruption, then as a passenger, I'd much rather have every delay/cancellation detailed accurately than some trains with inaccurate information because they weren't updated because the people responsible were too busy investigating delay reasons.

I think this is the key point.

The what rather than than why is what impacts people and their contingency planning, hence dissemination of this should always be the priority, even if the reasons for disruption are not known.

Something else that’s often forgotten on a subject specific forum is that a significant majority (probably 99%) of railway passengers have zero interest in or understanding of operational minutiae, so will find detailed explanations utterly meaningless and likely unwelcome.

 

[43096]

Even if it's possible to find the cause with a few minutes' investigation, it is better to publish the information then add the reason in later than to mislead passengers by withholding the information until a reason is available.

And if there is severe disruption, then as a passenger, I'd much rather have every delay/cancellation detailed accurately than some trains with inaccurate information because they weren't updated because the people responsible were too busy investigating delay reasons.

It's about the language used, though. "Unspecified" or "Unknown" has a strong implication that the company doesn't know what it is doing.

 

[zwk500]

Something else that’s often forgotten on a subject specific forum is that a significant majority (probably 99%) of railway passengers have zero interest in or understanding of operational minutiae, so will find detailed explanations utterly meaningless and likely unwelcome.

This is true, although providing an explanation of 'Unspecified delays' is arguably worse than nothing at all. It's also self-defeating - after all, you've specified the delays by clarifying that they're unspecified! In contrast, saying nothing would, by default, mean they were unspecified.

However @uww11x has pointed out TfW had cancelled it the night before, so they should have been able to change the message to 'this is a short-notice planned cancellation' or similar

 

[43066]

This is true, although providing an explanation of 'Unspecified delays' is arguably worse than nothing at all. It's also self-defeating - after all, you've specified the delays by clarifying that they're unspecified! In contrast, saying nothing would, by default, mean they were unspecified.

Yes, it’s poor phrasing. There has generally been a move away from phrases that sound like code for BS (eg “delay is due to operational reasons”), but this is a poor choice of wording.

 

[WizCastro197]

Neatly dovetailing into this thread, I've noticed this. NRE is showing disruption between Chinley & Edale, due to a tunnel inspection that is affecting Northern, TPE and EMR services. However, EMR services are not running between Sheffield and Stockport, due to planned engineering - according to EMR twitter.

NRE also states that EMR services are only operating between Sheffield and Norwich, but EMR state that train services are not operating between Nottingham and Ely, again due to planned engineering work. So my point is, how are everyday passengers supposed to know or understand when conflicting information is being supplied.

Honestly, the customer should trust the company they are traveling with, although NRE is overall the best source for this information, when it is conflicting it is best to check who you are actually travelling with ie. who's running the train.

 

[Falcon1200]

There's always a cause for a delay/cancellation. To say it's unknown is simply not true.

Disruption could be caused by a train incurring multiple sub-threshold delays, which would not be investigated immediately.

 

[Jozhua]

Honestly, this sort of "unspecified" delay seems to have improved significantly over time.

I remember probably 5-10 years ago, reasons were not often specified for delays in my part of the world, but these days it seems to be much better.