Keep being asked why I don't get a SMART card - here's why...

[coursemyhorse]

Please correct me if I am wrong on this but this is how I think it would work for me on my route with South West Trains (SWT).

Start = Ash Vale
End = London terminals (London Waterloo)
Including Travel Card zones 1-6
Route = Any permitted

I just renewed my annual paper season ticket for ANOTHER annual season paper ticket (Gold card).

I did this because I am under the impression that the SWT SMART card that would be issued to me would not be able to be loaded with the Travel card part of my ticket, and that even if it was, it would not be read on the TFL network ticket barriers.

Therefore...

I would have to either have:

A) A separate Oyster card
or
B) A separate travel card paper type issued

I don't know how A or B even work.

I therefore concluded that having two different tickets for my daily commute would be too much of a faff and that having it all on one works better for me.

I have however been asked "Why did you not renew that online for a smart card" by the ticket office and a guard once commented similar saying that I when I renew I should get a smart card.

Am I correct in my assumptions above?

What other benefits does a smart card provide other than being more durable?

 

[transportphoto]

ITSO cards are now accepted across the TfL network if loaded with a valid travel card.

 

[PermitToTravel]

They might not be accepted outside the zones by FGW or Southern if you take alternative routes to London, but within the Travelcard zones they work fine, just tap them on the regular Oyster reader

 

[OwlMan]

Please correct me if I am wrong on this but this is how I think it would work for me on my route with South West Trains (SWT).

Start = Ash Vale
End = London terminals (London Waterloo)
Including Travel Card zones 1-6
Route = Any permitted

I just renewed my annual paper season ticket for ANOTHER annual season paper ticket (Gold card).

I did this because I am under the impression that the SWT SMART card that would be issued to me would not be able to be loaded with the Travel card part of my ticket, and that even if it was, it would not be read on the TFL network ticket barriers.

Therefore...

I would have to either have:

A) A separate Oyster card
or
B) A separate travel card paper type issued

I don't know how A or B even work.

I therefore concluded that having two different tickets for my daily commute would be too much of a faff and that having it all on one works better for me.

I have however been asked "Why did you not renew that online for a smart card" by the ticket office and a guard once commented similar saying that I when I renew I should get a smart card.

Am I correct in my assumptions above?

What other benefits does a smart card provide other than being more durable?

No your first assumption is wrong. South West (and all other ITSO)smartcards with travelcards added can be used throughout the oyster area.

 

[coursemyhorse]

No your first assumption is wrong. South West (and all other ITSO)smartcards with travelcards added can be used throughout the oyster area.

Thanks for the info. Do you know since when this was the case? I asked the same question last December on these forums and people told me you couldn't do it.

 

[MikeWh]

Thanks for the info. Do you know since when this was the case? I asked the same question last December on these forums and people told me you couldn't do it.

My vague recollection is that it was late 2014, along with the introduction of contactless payments on rail services. There were some initial teething problems with readers on some buses, but as far as I know it is all working properly now.

 

[coursemyhorse]

If I want to use a smart card on a bus in London, will they have the reader to be able to check I have a valid travel card on my SWT smart card? The website says you can do it but wanted to explicitly check.
Also what happens when I want to get off at a stop covered by my ticket (break of journey) or get off early at say Woking? Before with paper ticket I had to show it to a guard and they let me through the barrier. How will that work with a smart card? Is the barrier person going to have to go off and get a smart card reader to check whilst I wait?

Another question I have is about the yellow platform readers in place of real barriers at my local station. I never see people use these. Do I have to use them?


I wanted to check something which I think could be a benefit...

With paper seasons, if you lose it once, you can get a replacement. If you lose it a second time, I heard that you have to have a crime reference number to get a replacement. So you could potentially lose your £££££ ticket if you lose it twice.

With Smart Cards, I would assume that they can void the tickets remotely and therefore can go on replacing them indefinitely (with only small admin charges). So do they give more peace of mind in that respect if lost/stolen in terms of people not being able to use them fraudulently and being less risky with loss of the ticket.

Finally, if you move to a smart card, how do you prove that it is a gold card in terms of buying and getting discounted tickets and proving to a guard that you are in possession of one? Would I be issued a paper ticket gold card "proof" in addition to the smart card?

Thanks

 

[paul_l]

If I want to use a smart card on a bus in London, will they have the reader to be able to check I have a valid travel card on my SWT smart card? The website says you can do it but wanted to explicitly check.
Also what happens when I want to get off at a stop covered by my ticket (break of journey) or get off early at say Woking? Before with paper ticket I had to show it to a guard and they let me through the barrier. How will that work with a smart card? Is the barrier person going to have to go off and get a smart card reader to check whilst I wait?

Another question I have is about the yellow platform readers in place of real barriers at my local station. I never see people use these. Do I have to use them?

I have been using SWT Smartcard for the last 8 months, with a monthly travelcard from Godalming. It works without any issues on London Underground & London buses, just tap it on the reader as you would an Oyster or debit card. It also works the barriers at any valid intermediate station without issue, including both Woking & Guildford.

I do have problems with the validators at unbarriered stations, where it often isnt recognised. At Godalming itself, it works fine when I tap in each morning, but usually fails (no valid ticket) when I tap out on my return in the evening. I've mentioned it to the helpline but they said it wasnt an issue as long as a guard's reader showed the valid ticket being loaded. You can also check what is loaded using an SWT ticket machine outside of the Oyster area.

 

[TEW]

If I want to use a smart card on a bus in London, will they have the reader to be able to check I have a valid travel card on my SWT smart card? The website says you can do it but wanted to explicitly check.
Also what happens when I want to get off at a stop covered by my ticket (break of journey) or get off early at say Woking? Before with paper ticket I had to show it to a guard and they let me through the barrier. How will that work with a smart card? Is the barrier person going to have to go off and get a smart card reader to check whilst I wait?

Another question I have is about the yellow platform readers in place of real barriers at my local station. I never see people use these. Do I have to use them?


I wanted to check something which I think could be a benefit...

With paper seasons, if you lose it once, you can get a replacement. If you lose it a second time, I heard that you have to have a crime reference number to get a replacement. So you could potentially lose your £££££ ticket if you lose it twice.

With Smart Cards, I would assume that they can void the tickets remotely and therefore can go on replacing them indefinitely (with only small admin charges). So do they give more peace of mind in that respect if lost/stolen in terms of people not being able to use them fraudulently and being less risky with loss of the ticket.

Finally, if you move to a smart card, how do you prove that it is a gold card in terms of buying and getting discounted tickets and proving to a guard that you are in possession of one? Would I be issued a paper ticket gold card "proof" in addition to the smart card?

Thanks

Although officially you are meant to validate your season every day on the standalone readers, in practice provided you have a valid ticket on your smartcard it will be fine if you don't validate it. You do have to use the validator the first time to load the ticket on to the card though.

You're correct that it is possible to deactivate a smartcard remotely, and it should mean you are able to have it replaced more than once.

If you have Gold Card on your smartcard you will also be issued with a 'Gold Record Card' which allows you to obtain the standard Gold Card benefits.

SWT have introduced the ability to swap a paper season for a smartcard now, details are on the website: https://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/tickets-explained/smartcard/

 

[button_boxer]

Out-boundary travelcards on ITSO smart cards work the readers within the zones covered by the travelcard, but you don't have a PAYG balance so you need a different ticket or contactless card if you want to travel beyond zones 1-6.

If you did (say) Euston to Bushey using an Oyster card with a 1-6 travelcard loaded then it would charge you for a zone 7-8 PAYG fare to cover the extension. But with an ITSO smart card you'd have to get off at Hatch End (in zone 6), touch in there with Oyster or contactless and get the next train, and you'd pay the (slightly higher) zone 6-8 fare instead of 7-8. If you didn't want to step back a train at Hatch End you'd have to pay the 1-8 single fare by touching in at Euston.

 

[jon0844]

There's still no idea on when PAYG will come to things like The Key is there? Another total shambles.

 

[Hadders]

There's still no idea on when PAYG will come to things like The Key is there? Another total shambles.

Well what do you expect from GTR....

I don't think this will affect he OP but it's worth checking that smart cards are accepted by all operators on a particular route. Take Stevenage to Kings Cross, VTEC don't accept The Key so you are restricted to Great Northern only - no reduction in price though.

 

[jon0844]

Can Virgin actually stop people using The Key if it has a valid season on it?

It's always said that the smartcard is just a medium to carry a ticket. If Virgin can't read the card, that's their problem isn't it?

 

[Hadders]

Can Virgin actually stop people using The Key if it has a valid season on it?

It's always said that the smartcard is just a medium to carry a ticket. If Virgin can't read the card, that's their problem isn't it?

I agree but I do seem to remember reading a leaflet about The Key saying it wasn't valid on VTEC. We both know The Key is just a medium and it's VTEC's problem but I really wouldn't want to get into a row with them if I just needed to nip onto one of their services to get home one evening.

Some VTEC managers at Kings Cross believe all Off Peak tickets are barred in the peak so I dread to think what they think about the validity of The Key...

 

[jon0844]

I agree but I do seem to remember reading a leaflet about The Key saying it wasn't valid on VTEC. We both know The Key is just a medium and it's VTEC's problem but I really wouldn't want to get into a row with them if I just needed to nip onto one of their services to get home one evening.

Some VTEC managers at Kings Cross believe all Off Peak tickets are barred in the peak so I dread to think what they think about the validity of The Key...

Someone needs to get this clarified, as it's quite a serious issue. Elsewhere guards and RPIs had to give people the benefit of the doubt, so if anyone was to be charged for a new ticket, that's surely not allowed.

But I have no doubt it happens. I've been refused entry to the platforms on (then) FCC by Virgin gateline staff with an off-peak ticket in the evening peak, even though Hatfield isn't affected by the evening peak. I actually missed TWO trains as a result.

I complained and never heard anything more (it was actually East Coast then, but likely the same people moved on to adorn VTEC uniforms so same thing) and I would hope that anyone who had problems with The Key would complain BIG TIME too.

 

[Hadders]

FAQ's on The Key. Good to have consistency between two Stagecoach operated franchises!

http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/contact-us/frequently-asked-questions/the-key#18

Can I use my key season ticket on East Midlands Trains services?

Yes, if your season ticket is valid for the journey being made.

Can I use my key season ticket on Virgin Trains East Coast services?

No. For travel between Stevenage and London, the key is only valid on Great Northern services. Currently Virgin Trains East Coast are not able to accept the key on their services.

As for my issue at the Kings Cross gateline it happened on the way back from a Fares Workshop last year and was witnessed by several forum members. I was using the return portion on an Off Peak ticket which was valid for travel between Kings Cross and Stevenage in the evening peak. I complained to VTEC and got a nonsense response back saying the ticket wasn't valid. I escalated the complaint and heard nothing, despite being promised an investigation and full response. I decided not to pursue it as I don't want the validity of the ticket to be changed...

 

[Hadders]

Thinking about this a little more.

I wonder if GTR would sell a Bedford - London Terminals AAA Milton Keynes season ticket on The Key. If so would Virgin Trains or London Midland accept it between Milton Keynes and Euston?

Even a 'normal' Bedford - London Thameslink season ticket is valid via the Marston Vale Line and into Euston. If a passenger was making a long distance journey from, say, Euston to Manchester using a Bedford-London Thameslink season ticket issued on The Key and a Bletchley to Manchester paper ticket then it should be perfectly valid.

I wonder what the Virgin's view of this would be.