K &ESR connection

[paul1609]

Engineers Access-Northbridge Street to A21

image 1 - Northbridge to A21. View North West Continuing the inspection road to access the alignment prior to construction work starting lat...

rvrailway.blogspot.com

 

[railfan99]

Good to see progress.

Not easy to build a 'new' heritage railway extension in 2024 but K&ESR together with Rother Valley Railway seem to have written the textbook.

 

[Teaboy1]

Looks a huge task to link Bodiam with Roberts bridge. The are some substaintial gaps where track has been obliterated and I wonder at the willingness of land owners to a] sell land back to K&ESR and b] their wish not to have a railway running through their estate. Salehurst looks to a stumbling block as well as the A21 road crossing.
Best of British however, hope it happens some day !

Just noticed Turntable already in at R Bridge. Something positive at least.

 

[duffield]

Looks a huge task to link Bodiam with Roberts bridge. The are some substaintial gaps where track has been obliterated and I wonder at the willingness of land owners to a] sell land back to K&ESR and b] their wish not to have a railway running through their estate. Salehurst looks to a stumbling block as well as the A21 road crossing.
Best of British however, hope it happens some day !

Just noticed Turntable already in at R Bridge. Something positive at least.

Bodiam to Robertsbridge is a done deal. RVR got the transport and works order including the A21 crossing and the compulsory purchase powers needed for the missing land, all signed off by the minister, no appeals or anything, and I understand they've effectively taken possession of the land and marked/fenced at least some of the boundaries. It appears they have the necessary finance, so it's all happening.

Kent and East Sussex Railways to connect as 'missing link' is approved

The Rother Valley and Kent and East Sussex Railways are to be connected, after the government approved the rebuilding of a 'missing link'

www.railadvent.co.uk

 

[Steven Taylor]

Looks a huge task to link Bodiam with Roberts bridge. The are some substaintial gaps where track has been obliterated and I wonder at the willingness of land owners to a] sell land back to K&ESR and b] their wish not to have a railway running through their estate. Salehurst looks to a stumbling block as well as the A21 road crossing.
Best of British however, hope it happens some day !

Just noticed Turntable already in at R Bridge. Something positive at least.

The excellent news is that the Rother Valley Railway have the necessary `Transport & Works Act` (May 2023) to enable completion. The crossing of the A21 by Level Crossing authorised / Compulsory Purchase Order in respect of the two land owners who did not want to sell their land likewise.

 

[paul1609]

The excellent news is that the Rother Valley Railway have the necessary `Transport & Works Act` (May 2023) to enable completion. The crossing of the A21 by Level Crossing authorised / Compulsory Purchase Order in respect of the two land owners who did not want to sell their land likewise.

All of the land required now belongs to the Rother Valley Railway the transfer took place In November 2023.

 

[railfan99]

Just noticed Turntable already in at R Bridge. Something positive at least.

I inspected the turntable late last year.

From a layman's perspective, it looks extremely well built. Let's hope it's fairly soon put to good use.

 

[Steven Taylor]

I inspected the turntable late last year.

From a layman's perspective, it looks extremely well built. Let's hope it's fairly soon put to good use.

The turntable was used during the day before the 50th Anniversary Gala - Kent & East Sussex Railway event 1st/2nd June. SVR Locomotive Britannia 70000 was turned here on the 31st May 2024 for the 1st/2nd June event. I am sure the turntable will see a lot of use going forward.

 

[D Williams]

The turntable was used during the day before the 50th Anniversary Gala - Kent & East Sussex Railway event 1st/2nd June. SVR Locomotive Britannia 70000 was turned here on the 31st May 2024 for the 1st/2nd June event. I am sure the turntable will see a lot of use going forward.
A thought did occur to me. When the RVR reconnects to the K&ESR, will engines be turned for every passenger train service?
I assume probably not as it would be time consuming, but would assist footplate crew from getting quite so wet in the rain.

Is there a turntable at Tenterden?

 

[Steven Taylor]

Is there a turntable at Tenterden?

Is there a turntable at Tenterden?

I am a bit embarrassed as my comment only makes sense if there is a turntable at both ends of the line. No, there is no turntable at Tenterden.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2024 ==

I am a bit embarrassed as my comment only makes sense if there is a turntable at both ends of the line. No, there is no turntable at Tenterden

 

[railfan99]

I am a bit embarrassed as my comment only makes sense if there is a turntable at both ends of the line. No, there is no turntable at Tenterden.

No reason to be embarrassed as @paul1609 has previously indicated the turntable may be used IIRC by outsiders such as TOCs.

 

[34006]

Is there any news on Austens bridge, that is bridge 26?
There are rumours that the bridge was damaged by the previous owner before it was compulsory purchased.
Does anybody know if the bridge is repairable, or will need replacing ?
note this is not bridge 25 which is being rebuilt by two spans from the Bluebell railway.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Bodiam to Robertsbridge is a done deal. RVR got the transport and works order including the A21 crossing and the compulsory purchase powers needed for the missing land, all signed off by the minister, no appeals or anything, and I understand they've effectively taken possession of the land and marked/fenced at least some of the boundaries. It appears they have the necessary finance, so it's all happening.
[/URL]

Yes it really is impressive and has really raised the bar on what's possible.

However now it will be - 'The RVR managed to do this why can't [rail society X] do something similar?' for ever more!

 

[geoffk]

Yes it really is impressive and has really raised the bar on what's possible.

However now it will be - 'The RVR managed to do this why can't [rail society X] do something similar?' for ever more!

A21 is a trunk road, isn't it?

 

[30907]

A21 is a trunk road, isn't it?

Yes, but hardly in the same ballpark as the A5 or A47 (to mention the obvious comparators).

 

[railfan99]

I am a bit embarrassed as my comment only makes sense if there is a turntable at both ends of the line. No, there is no turntable at Tenterden.

If a steam loco was hauling a mainline tour to connect with a separate train on the branch from Robertsbridge to Tenterden, your comment may still make sense because the main line loco might use the facility to face funnel first for the trip back to London or points north.

If locomotive wheel wear being equal is an issue (I am not technically minded), K&ESR might use the turntable to even this out.

Even weathering of carriages and goods wagons not stored under cover is another potential use.

Ideally Tenterden would one day have a turntable but it's never mentioned, so that's just me engaging in speculative discussion. Did Tenterden ever have one?

 

[Steven Taylor]

If a steam loco was hauling a mainline tour to connect with a separate train on the branch from Robertsbridge to Tenterden, your comment may still make sense because the main line loco might use the facility to face funnel first for the trip back to London or points north.

If locomotive wheel wear being equal is an issue (I am not technically minded), K&ESR might use the turntable to even this out.

Even weathering of carriages and goods wagons not stored under cover is another potential use.

Ideally Tenterden would one day have a turntable but it's never mentioned, so that's just me engaging in speculative discussion. Did Tenterden ever have one?

Short answer, No.

I have a whole collection of K&ESR books, and none of them mention a turntable at Tenterden. Also no Ordnance Survey maps show a turntable, and space would be quite limited. My speculation is that as the original railway was `built on the cheap`, this was never considered. There was not even a loop at Robertsbridge Station platform! The train would have to reverse out of the platform to a loop away from the platform to enable the locomotive to `run round`.
It may be pertinent to mention that K&ESR opened in stages. Robertsbridge to Tenterden (now Rolvenden) opened in 1900. The line was extended up the 1 in 50 incline to Tenterden Town in 1903 and onwards to Headcorn on 1905.

You raise an interesting question. I am now wondering how many stations/ depots actually had turntables in the UK. in the heyday of steam.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I am now wondering how many stations/ depots actually had turntables in the UK. in the heyday of steam.

Probably this question is worthy of a separate thread.

 

[D Williams]

Probably this question is worthy of a separate thread.

And it would be quite a long one!

 

[paul1609]

Short answer, No.

I have a whole collection of K&ESR books, and none of them mention a turntable at Tenterden. Also no Ordnance Survey maps show a turntable, and space would be quite limited. My speculation is that as the original railway was `built on the cheap`, this was never considered. There was not even a loop at Robertsbridge Station platform! The train would have to reverse out of the platform to a loop away from the platform to enable the locomotive to `run round`.
It may be pertinent to mention that K&ESR opened in stages. Robertsbridge to Tenterden (now Rolvenden) opened in 1900. The line was extended up the 1 in 50 incline to Tenterden Town in 1903 and onwards to Headcorn on 1905.

You raise an interesting question. I am now wondering how many stations/ depots actually had turntables in the UK. in the heyday of steam.

The K &ESR never had a turntable. However as a heritage railway we quite frequently turn vehicles, currently this is usually achieved by utilising a low loader at Wittersham Rd. This is quite time consuming and expensive and we tend to utilise the low loader when its taking or bring other equipment to the railway (locos, tampers etc).
There are several reasons why we turn vehicles including:-
a) whilst we have good carriage storage facilities at Rolvenden, the day to day Mk1 and Maunsell coaches tend to be stabled in the open at Tenterden. The Wealden Pullman set is also stabled in the open there for PR reasons and also to allow the kitchen car to be used whilst the train is berthed. The orientation of the site is roughly South West to North East. What this means is that the town side of the coaches are subject to much high Ultra violet degradation than the country side. If we rotate the coach part way through its overhaul schedule we can extend the time before a main repaint between 2 and 5 years which is a major cost saving.
b) particularly the Maunsell coaches change between sets, many of our coaches are brake vehicles which on the Maunsells are large walk through brake vans without the guards compartment and the cage you see on MK1s. its not ideal to have the brake compartment in the middle of a luxury pullman train so we tend to use them as the end vehicle with the brake van at the outer end of the train. This means we have to turn the coach depending on its position in the set.
c) Some PW maintenance vehicles need to be turned as part of their calibration procedure.
d) the ability to turn locomotives opens up opportunities in the photo charter and filming market.
So we considered that when the Stewarts lane turntable required rescuing there were enough reasons to bring it to Robertsbridge. What subsequently happened was that there were enquiries from mainline freight, infrastructure and tour operators as to whether the facility would be available to them as its adjacent to the mainline connection. I believe some of these companies made donations to the project. Youll have possibly seen the publicity surrounding the class 66 loco being turned at the RVR Gala.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

Hither Green, not Stew Lane.
Pat

 

[paul1609]

Hither Green, not Stew Lane.
Pat

You are of course right. its all up north to me. I believe nobody really knows where it was originally ordered for/ installed it may have been Cannon Street.

 

[Steven Taylor]

The K &ESR never had a turntable. However as a heritage railway we quite frequently turn vehicles, currently this is usually achieved by utilising a low loader at Wittersham Rd. This is quite time consuming and expensive and we tend to utilise the low loader when its taking or bring other equipment to the railway (locos, tampers etc).
There are several reasons why we turn vehicles including:-
a) whilst we have good carriage storage facilities at Rolvenden, the day to day Mk1 and Maunsell coaches tend to be stabled in the open at Tenterden. The Wealden Pullman set is also stabled in the open there for PR reasons and also to allow the kitchen car to be used whilst the train is berthed. The orientation of the site is roughly South West to North East. What this means is that the town side of the coaches are subject to much high Ultra violet degradation than the country side. If we rotate the coach part way through its overhaul schedule we can extend the time before a main repaint between 2 and 5 years which is a major cost saving.
b) particularly the Maunsell coaches change between sets, many of our coaches are brake vehicles which on the Maunsells are large walk through brake vans without the guards compartment and the cage you see on MK1s. its not ideal to have the brake compartment in the middle of a luxury pullman train so we tend to use them as the end vehicle with the brake van at the outer end of the train. This means we have to turn the coach depending on its position in the set.
c) Some PW maintenance vehicles need to be turned as part of their calibration procedure.
d) the ability to turn locomotives opens up opportunities in the photo charter and filming market.
So we considered that when the Stewarts lane turntable required rescuing there were enough reasons to bring it to Robertsbridge. What subsequently happened was that there were enquiries from mainline freight, infrastructure and tour operators as to whether the facility would be available to them as its adjacent to the mainline connection. I believe some of these companies made donations to the project. Youll have possibly seen the publicity surrounding the class 66 loco being turned at the RVR Gala.

Thanks for your detailed response, which I found very interesting. The turntable has certainly been good for publicity. It was great to see all the articles in the various railway magazines recently about this and K&ESR and RVR in general.

 

[alf]

Is there any news on Austens bridge, that is bridge 26?
There are rumours that the bridge was damaged by the previous owner before it was compulsory purchased.
Does anybody know if the bridge is repairable, or will need replacing ?
note this is not bridge 25 which is being rebuilt by two spans from the Bluebell railway.

If Bridge 26 is the Rail over river bridge at the east end of the extension close to Bodiam I have some fresh today good news.
A white hat orange clad engineer moving his car today at the compound showed me pics he had taken fifteen minutes earlier.
The bridge is covered in scaffold allowing access to every part & from the pics the longtitudinal & the transverse steel beams seem in good order, but needing shot blasting on site & then protective paint.
The longtitudinal beams sit on the K&ESR concrete pads on either side of the river. Being non navigable the bridge is only a few feet above the water.
I think the engineer was to do with plant hire so he could not let us enter the site ..but he was kind enough to show the pics on his phone.
To two laymen the 5 pics we saw should in it good shape...contrary to the rumours!
By the way the site is securely locked. Please respect it & the adjacent farm’s privacy.

 

[paul1609]

If Bridge 26 is the Rail over river bridge at the east end of the extension close to Bodiam I have some fresh today good news.
A white hat orange clad engineer moving his car today at the compound showed me pics he had taken fifteen minutes earlier.
The bridge is covered in scaffold allowing access to every part & from the pics the longtitudinal & the transverse steel beams seem in good order, but needing shot blasting on site & then protective paint.
The longtitudinal beams sit on the K&ESR concrete pads on either side of the river. Being non navigable the bridge is only a few feet above the water.
I think the engineer was to do with plant hire so he could not let us enter the site ..but he was kind enough to show the pics on his phone.
To two laymen the 5 pics we saw should in it good shape...contrary to the rumours!
By the way the site is securely locked. Please respect it & the adjacent farm’s privacy.

I reckon you met with Andy or Alistair, Bridge 26 is known in the railway circles as Austins Bridge and is a few hundred yards West of Junction Road B2244. it marked the end of the east section of property owned by the RVR before the compulsory purchase last year secured the whole route.

 

[alf]

I reckon you met with Andy or Alistair, Bridge 26 is known in the railway circles as Austins Bridge and is a few hundred yards West of Junction Road B2244. it marked the end of the east section of property owned by the RVR before the compulsory purchase last year secured the whole route.

Thanks Andy or Alister!
Yes Paul. It is the substantial bridge a few hundred yards west of Junction Road.
The pics showed really serious scaffolding, with lots of wooden boarding for access to all the steel girders & their solid looking rivets.
From the pics We felt confident the rumours about damage were unfounded. Good luck the Rother Valley railway team.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2024 ==

Sorry to post so frequently, but by coincidence the Rother Valley Railway has just posted some excellent Bridge 26 photos..probably taken at the same time as the few we were shown the other day.

The RVR text is interesting. RVR say there was damage done to the bridge & 3 of their photos show it.
My apologies to forum readers & the RVR for saying the rumours about damage done to the bridge were unfounded.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2024 ==

Sorry to write another post so soon.

By coincidence the RVR website has just published today excellent & revealing photographs of bridge 26, probably taken at the same time as the pics we were shown the other day at the Junction Road site entrance.
I owe RVR & forum readers an apology. These new RVR photos & text say there WAS damage done to the bridge .. & two photos show it. I wish I had asked the contractor about it!

 

[railfan99]

The otherwise excellent Rother Valley website may need updating as under "what Rother Valley Railway has achieved" it states "half the land requirements negotiated".

Positive events have overtaken this.

 

[Backroom_boy]

The otherwise excellent Rother Valley website may need updating as under "what Rother Valley Railway has achieved" it states "half the land requirements negotiated".

Positive events have overtaken this.

Oh go to the news section. That's updated quite frequently

RVRailway News

rvrailway.blogspot.com

 

[paul1609]

Is there any news on Austens bridge, that is bridge 26?
There are rumours that the bridge was damaged by the previous owner before it was compulsory purchased.
Does anybody know if the bridge is repairable, or will need replacing ?
note this is not bridge 25 which is being rebuilt by two spans from the Bluebell railway.

Austens Bridge -4 Mid August '24 repair update

image 1 As said in the earlier post Playfoots have been working intensely on the bridge. Crossbeams & Deck above - New cross beams being...

rvrailway.blogspot.com

 

[Teaboy1]

Austens Bridge -1 Repairs - Scaffolding

image 1 - Austens 2015 before damage Unexpectedly, Austens Bridge, incurred significant "damage" in June 2023. Over the past year the Rail...

rvrailway.blogspot.com

I would say from my experience with heavy plant, someone has had a good go at demolishing that bridge. There is no way that damage seen in above Blog has been done by hand!! Thats had a big old 360 with a serious Hen-Pecker having a go at that structure. Just look at the round tooling marks in those RSJ's , must have made a proper racket smashing away at that bridge. Plus the tell-tale marks of a Fire-Axe for good meaure !!!