Justice system reform

[Philip]

Do people think a justice system in this country which has much shorter but generally tougher jail sentences with a bigger rehabilitation programme would be a good idea?

The prison population has been stretching the limits of capacity for some time now and I think there is an argument to be made that locking someone away for 20 years isn't constructive in a lot of circumstances, either for the offender or even society if that particular offender has unlocked talents and strengths. There would be strict procedures to ensure that convicts approaching their release aren't a danger to society across the board, but would getting rid of the whole life tariff and setting a maximum jail time of 10 years (or thereabouts), and with a lot of lesser and non-personal offences like fraud receiving community service punishment/fines rather than jail, be better than the current system?

This might seem like making things cushier for serious criminals but the shorter sentences would include tougher jail stints, with hard labour schemes brought back and the severity depending on the nature of the offence. Many more crimes would become non-custodial offences but in turn this would mean longer and more meaningful community service punishments and/or heftier fines.

The money saved by shortening and reducing the number of custodial sentences would go towards building a much more comprehensive rehabilitation programme, which could be particularly important in cases of people who have committed very serious crimes, including drug-related crimes, sexual abuse, gang warfare, knife/gun crimes etc.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think you can't look at one part of the system (the prison/rehabilitation side) without dealing with the front end of the criminal justice system. After a decade of cuts the police lack the resources to properly investigate crimes meaning that some crimes just aren't getting investigated (burglary an obvious one), investigations are taking an age (bad for victims but also bad for the innocent who have their lives disrupted for months) and are sometimes mishandled (important evidence not gathered, witness testimony not secured, etc). The Crown Prosecution Service, similarly, lack the resources to make charging decisions promptly, to make sensible charging decisions, to ensure that bundles of evidence are properly prepared, to make sure that the right witnesses are called this causes delays as cases are listed that then have no prospect of going forward. The courts themselves are not sitting for as many days as they actually could meaning that fewer cases are being dealt with meaning delays (bad for victims and the innocent). Despite the fact that Crown Court cases are being listed for 2024 there will have been court rooms that could have heard cases but did not as there is no resource to open them. Legal Aid has been gutted meaning more defendants have to try and represent themselves meaning more delays* as the court system has to try and handhold them through the process.

Before we even get to the prison/rehabilitation side of the criminal justice system (and I do think there's a discussion to be had about the balance between the two and whether we get it right or not) we need to fix the front end of the system. It doesn't work for victims. It doesn't work for the innocent who are accused of a crime. About the only people it probably does work for are the guilty who are more likely to get away with a crime now than perhaps any other time in recent history. Well, and I guess the politicans who can make a nice annoucement about how they're "tough on crime" by rolling out some new law or other (to deal with something which almost certainly could be dealt with via existing law) and the media crow approvingly.


*And as a side note those who are lucky enough to afford their own representation when not covered by Legal Aid, which will be most people, the rate at which you're reimbursed if you win (that is to say you were innocent) will be less than what you paid for legal assistance. The State will take you to court and then even if the State loses will leave you out of pocket for the privilege. You remortaged your house? Bad luck, you're still paying back that debt even though you won because the State decided you were guilty and wil not entertain to make you whole. Lost your job because you were held in prison because you were denied bail? Tough luck. The State isn't going to make good your lost wages.

 

[Busaholic]

The principal reason I decided to leave the branch of the so-called Justice System in which I worked back in the 1980s was my frustration with and hostility to the way in which Margaret Thatcher's successive governments seemed bent on the sort of reforms that the popular press would acclaim as 'stopping prisoners from living a life of luxury' etc. In truth, it was all about the state spending less money, introducing privatisation without management responsibility and, in the process, eliminating the idea of rehabilitation as being too costly, and not worthwhile anyway. We as a society are now reaping the 'rewards' of this thoughtless approach, with the Probation Service I worked for being a pathetic shadow of what it once was: actually, as far as I'm concerned, it's ceased to exist in any meaningful way.

i find it very hard to accept we truly have a 'justice system' any longer. If you're a victim of crime it seems to me you'll be usually unsatisfied with the result of any 'investigation', even in the unlikely event that it notionally happens. If you're a black male teenager who comes from a family of Caribbean background, no matter how you conduct yourself you'll get police harassment as a matter of course, unless you're one of the 0.001% who go to Eton or equivalent. Even among the charities and organisations that are dedicated to keeping the subject of social justice alive are some who are not only careerists but will be happy to retire with a seat in the House of Lords or an MBE. It's all infinitely depressing. Local magistrates courts have disappeared, along with hundreds of magistrates, and with it the press reporting of what goes on there. Legal aid is a distant memory. Barristers are on indefinite strike. I never thought I'd think it, but watching court proceedings from the USA on YouTube now gives me the perception that justice is more possible in that deeply flawed country than here in some circumstances.

 

[ComUtoR]

The money saved by shortening and reducing the number of custodial sentences would go towards building a much more comprehensive rehabilitation programme....

The money saved needs to go into schemes that *prevent crime and improve quality of life. Money also needs to be spent on the victims of crime. Unless we treat the underlying causes; it will always be a continual cycle of crime and punishment.



*I don't mean "crime prevention"

 

[Bevan Price]

Some people are much too dangerous to be ever let out of prison, including mass murderers and some terrorists. The risk of them repeating offences is much too high.

Other people should perhaps never be sent to prison, with alternative types of punishment devised for certain types of offence.

 

[Yew]

Other people should perhaps never be sent to prison, with alternative types of punishment devised for certain types of offence.

But what about right wingers sadistic desire for revenge.