June 2024 Timetable Change

[jfollows]

Even still one might expect an early-morning down, or late-evening up, journey to do this. Woking is obviously an important interchange and it seems a bit odd to disrupt the off-peak pattern by leaving a gap in Woking provision at this time of day.

Will catch people out too, who are expecting a consistent pattern between the peaks. I suspect the on train and on-platform announcements will need to be very clear and emphasise the different calling pattern of this specific service.

Well, if SWR had got their press release timetable announcement right, maybe people would have known ……

 

[pompeyfan]

Even still one might expect an early-morning down, or late-evening up, journey to do this. Woking is obviously an important interchange and it seems a bit odd to disrupt the off-peak pattern by leaving a gap in Woking provision at this time of day.

You wouldn’t be able to do it at those times as they’re crewed by London end crews. I agree a random off peak service isn’t ideal, but unless you’re going to do it in the evening peak in the up direction (like how 1G64 does) you’re never going to find a perfect time.

 

[frodshamfella]

West Midlands Railway's priorities are a little confusing to me

The Liverpool - Birmingham service remains hourly most of the time on weekdays with only extras in the peak

Crewe - Stoke - Stafford remains as this service instead of via Tame Bridge, with that path being used by the new Shrewsbury - Birmingham service

So Crewe - Birmingham remains down to 2 per hour (1 WMR and 1 Avanti), half that it was - with no end in sight... I'd have thought using the Tame Bridge path to maintain a 2nd Liverpool - Birmingham or reintroduce the Crewe - Stoke - Birmingham service would have been preferred?

Still no late night service on LNWR Liverpool to Birmingham, not good if you have a night out of seen a show. Friday is ok, so is Sunday, not Saturday. Been like this for years.

Fortunately there is TFW hourly on the Liverpool to Chesters now which runs late on a Saturday.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Still no late night service on LNWR Liverpool to Birmingham, not good if you have a night out of seen a show. Friday is ok, so is Sunday, not Saturday. Been like this for years.

Fortunately there is TFW hourly on the Liverpool to Chesters now which runs late on a Saturday.

TfW don't serve towns between Runcorn and Crewe though.

 

[SeanM1997]

TfW don't serve towns between Runcorn and Crewe though.

From what I've heard, LNWR should be going back to half-hourly on Liverpool-Birmingham from December 2024. Hopefully once this happens, later services will return

 

[Jamesrob637]

From what I've heard, LNWR should be going back to half-hourly on Liverpool-Birmingham from December 2024. Hopefully once this happens, later services will return

Which should've really been done 2-3 years ago.

 

[takethegame]

Disappointingly, no obvious changes (again) for EMR on the Peterborough to Lincoln route. What happened to the 'hourly service through the day and a Sunday service' that was promised as benefits from the Joint GE/GN Line upgrade and especially when Abellio took over. We still have a slightly erratic service, especially the two 'missing services' during the day resulting in a 2 hour gap between trains northbound and 2.5 hour gap southbound at one point.

Without too far into speculation, it must be possible to run a clock face service and with some investment further improvements still (e.g. double tracking at Sleaford and line speed improvements to cater for the class 170s). I'm not even sure an hourly service is always needed between Peterborough and Lincoln, with just two units it is possible to run an hourly clock face service between Peterborough and Spalding and every 2 hours between Spalding and Lincoln and hourly during the peaks, from early to late Monday to Saturday. Doncaster to Lincoln services could run through to Sleaford to fill in gaps at that end. On a Sunday just three return journeys (e.g. morning, afternoon and evening) between Lincoln and Peterborough would be a massive improvement.

 

[LowLevel]

Disappointingly, no obvious changes (again) for EMR on the Peterborough to Lincoln route. What happened to the 'hourly service through the day and a Sunday service' that was promised as benefits from the Joint GE/GN Line upgrade and especially when Abellio took over. We still have a slightly erratic service, especially the two 'missing services' during the day resulting in a 2 hour gap between trains northbound and 2.5 hour gap southbound at one point.

Without too far into speculation, it must be possible to run a clock face service and with some investment further improvements still (e.g. double tracking at Sleaford and line speed improvements to cater for the class 170s). I'm not even sure an hourly service is always needed between Peterborough and Lincoln, with just two units it is possible to run an hourly clock face service between Peterborough and Spalding and every 2 hours between Spalding and Lincoln and hourly during the peaks, from early to late Monday to Saturday. Doncaster to Lincoln services could run through to Sleaford to fill in gaps at that end. On a Sunday just three return journeys (e.g. morning, afternoon and evening) between Lincoln and Peterborough would be a massive improvement.

The DfT. Those trains don't make money. Not running them is a cost saving on paper.

Same with Nottingham to Crewe, where despite the trains being far busier than they ever were previously carrying a reasonable amount of long distance traffic and having had an hourly service all day for decades the DfT is of the view that parking a unit up during the day and creating randomly gaps in a reliable hourly service is a worthwhile cost saving, with the prospectus for the next few years showing the potential restoration of the hourly service as an actual improvement to be delivered, despite the fact that the trains and crews required are already within the business.

 

[greaterangrier]

I don't think anyone has commented on this yet, but Aldersbrook C.H.S seems to now get a regular working, sending a single 720 every morning to Liverpool Street to form a peak service.

Realtime Trains | 5F04 0605 Aldersbrook Up C.H.S. to London Liverpool Street | 05/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5F04 0605 departure from Aldersbrook Up C.H.S. to London Liverpool Street on 05/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Without too far into speculation, it must be possible to run a clock face service and with some investment further improvements still (e.g. double tracking at Sleaford and line speed improvements to cater for the class 170s). I'm not even sure an hourly service is always needed between Peterborough and Lincoln, with just two units it is possible to run an hourly clock face service between Peterborough and Spalding and every 2 hours between Spalding and Lincoln and hourly during the peaks, from early to late Monday to Saturday. Doncaster to Lincoln services could run through to Sleaford to fill in gaps at that end. On a Sunday just three return journeys (e.g. morning, afternoon and evening) between Lincoln and Peterborough would be a massive improvement

This also sounds expensive, and something the DfT is also unlikely to want to fund at present.

 

[BrianW]

This also sounds expensive, and something the DfT is also likely to want to fund at present.

Unlikely?

 

[dk1]

The DfT. Those trains don't make money. Not running them is a cost saving on paper.

Same with Nottingham to Crewe, where despite the trains being far busier than they ever were previously carrying a reasonable amount of long distance traffic and having had an hourly service all day for decades the DfT is of the view that parking a unit up during the day and creating randomly gaps in a reliable hourly service is a worthwhile cost saving, with the prospectus for the next few years showing the potential restoration of the hourly service as an actual improvement to be delivered, despite the fact that the trains and crews required are already within the business.

Same with the 12:51 ex-Lime Street which continues to end its journey at Nottingham resulting in no 18:55 return from Norwich.

 

[Alfie1014]

Disappointingly, no obvious changes (again) for EMR on the Peterborough to Lincoln route. What happened to the 'hourly service through the day and a Sunday service' that was promised as benefits from the Joint GE/GN Line upgrade and especially when Abellio took over. We still have a slightly erratic service, especially the two 'missing services' during the day resulting in a 2 hour gap between trains northbound and 2.5 hour gap southbound at one point.

Without too far into speculation, it must be possible to run a clock face service and with some investment further improvements still (e.g. double tracking at Sleaford and line speed improvements to cater for the class 170s). I'm not even sure an hourly service is always needed between Peterborough and Lincoln, with just two units it is possible to run an hourly clock face service between Peterborough and Spalding and every 2 hours between Spalding and Lincoln and hourly during the peaks, from early to late Monday to Saturday. Doncaster to Lincoln services could run through to Sleaford to fill in gaps at that end. On a Sunday just three return journeys (e.g. morning, afternoon and evening) between Lincoln and Peterborough would be a massive improvement.

Just don’t mention Sunday services to Colchester Town a commitment in the 2016 franchise award and never delivered even though there are no infrastructure constraints that would prevent it!

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

I don't think anyone has commented on this yet, but Aldersbrook C.H.S seems to now get a regular working, sending a single 720 every morning to Liverpool Street to form a peak service.

Realtime Trains | 5F04 0605 Aldersbrook Up C.H.S. to London Liverpool Street | 05/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5F04 0605 departure from Aldersbrook Up C.H.S. to London Liverpool Street on 05/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It seems to come empty from Ilford, reverse at Shenfield and then go there at like 10pm the previous night

Realtime Trains | 5W78 2121 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Shenfield | 05/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5W78 2121 departure from Ilford E.M.U.D. to Shenfield on 05/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5V79 2158 Shenfield to Aldersbrook Up C.H.S. | 05/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5V79 2158 departure from Shenfield to Aldersbrook Up C.H.S. on 05/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Unlikely?

Well spotted!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2024 ==

Just don’t mention Sunday services to Colchester Town a commitment in the 2016 franchise award and never delivered even though there are no infrastructure constraints that would prevent it!

Of course that 2016 franchise is long since over!

 

[dk1]

Deleted

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2024 ==

Of course that 2016 franchise is long since over!

Yes, long gone in this modern railway age.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Just don’t mention Sunday services to Colchester Town a commitment in the 2016 franchise award and never delivered even though there are no infrastructure constraints that would prevent it!

Seems really weird that they still don't serve it on Sunday

 

[30907]

Seems really weird that they still don't serve it on Sunday

I suppose because there are no potential Colchester terminators that could be extended, so it would require an extra unit just for that. Would a free city centre shuttle from North meet most of the need?

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

I suppose because there are no potential Colchester terminators that could be extended, so it would require an extra unit just for that. Would a free city centre shuttle from North meet most of the need?

Or they could just extend the Waltons to Colchester like they do on every other day of the week

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Or they could just extend the Waltons to Colchester like they do on every other day of the week

However the DfT haven’t asked for this as part of the contract, expanding Sunday local services is unlikely to be cost neutral.

 

[Horizon22]

I don't think anyone has commented on this yet, but Aldersbrook C.H.S seems to now get a regular working, sending a single 720 every morning to Liverpool Street to form a peak service.

Realtime Trains | 5F04 0605 Aldersbrook Up C.H.S. to London Liverpool Street | 05/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5F04 0605 departure from Aldersbrook Up C.H.S. to London Liverpool Street on 05/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Makes sense if it can be used; it can’t hold a full length (9-car) 345 so no use to Elizabeth line but a 5/6 car unit for GA would fit.

Longer term - if an agreement could be met - GA moving some units to Aldersbrook vice Ilford might free up some space for extra 345s stabling. Security might need beefing up though.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

However the DfT haven’t asked for this as part of the contract, expanding Sunday local services is unlikely to be cost neutral.

Yeah then probably do a Colchester to Colchester town shuttle

 

[Robert Carroll]

SWR have published a summary of their timetable changes:
...

In response to changing travel patterns, two services to London Waterloo via Epsom will be changed:

• The 0630 from Dorking to London Waterloo will depart eight minutes earlier than the current timetable, at 0622
• The 0558 from Guildford to London Waterloo will depart 30 minutes later, at 0628

I wonder if this is really more to do with the fact that the 0701 Dorking-Waterloo changes from 10 car (458) to 8 car (455)? At present, there is a 30 or so minute gap ahead of this service and it's usually pretty rammed mid-week by Motspur Park. Reduced to 8-car, it will be leaving people (including me) behind at Worcester Park. When RTT shows it as 8-car at present, I don't bother trying, I take the bus to Morden and then the Underground. Moving the two trains mentioned in the press release shifts the half-hour gap earlier and means there will be an 0717 from Worcester Park, which should relieve pressure on the 0728. The 0717 might be pretty crammed as there will be a half-hour gap ahead of it. We shall find out in the first week of June.

 

[30907]

Or they could just extend the Waltons to Colchester like they do on every other day of the week

Which would require 2 extra units on current timings of 37min each way - unless you didn't go through to North of course. Would that serve the main flow?

 

[Kite159]

Which would require 2 extra units on current timings of 37min each way - unless you didn't go through to North of course. Would that serve the main flow?

Wouldn't it only be the one extra unit as the other unit is already in use on the Walton - Thorpe shuttle (would allow the Clacton trains to be semi-fast on Sundays at least).

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Wouldn't it only be the one extra unit as the other unit is already in use on the Walton - Thorpe shuttle (would allow the Clacton trains to be semi-fast on Sundays at least).

But is unlikely to be something the funder asks for in terms of enhancements.

 

[Alfie1014]

But is unlikely to be something the funder asks for in terms of enhancements.

Sad but true, that said with GA the only TOC making positive contributions to Treasury a ‘minor’ enhancement such as this would be regarded as a quick(ish) win by local stakeholders. There’s no incentive to use the train from the coast to Colchester city centre if you have to then walk or get a bus from North station. Even a service during shopping hours 10:00-16:00 would be a start?

 

[30907]

Wouldn't it only be the one extra unit as the other unit is already in use on the Walton - Thorpe shuttle (would allow the Clacton trains to be semi-fast on Sundays at least).

The service could operate with 2 units, if the weekday offpeak timing of 35min could be maintained (not sure where I found 37min!), provided the Clacton service was retimed to fit. If you then made the Clactons semi-fast, you would have to revise much of the GEML timetable to fit. Maybe it needs doing, of course?

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

The service could operate with 2 units, if the weekday offpeak timing of 35min could be maintained (not sure where I found 37min!), provided the Clacton service was retimed to fit. If you then made the Clactons semi-fast, you would have to revise much of the GEML timetable to fit. Maybe it needs doing, of course?

But you could just make them leave later

 

[30907]

But you could just make them leave later

If you mean the Clactons, you would be back to needing 3 units for Colchester Town.