June 2024 Timetable Change

[HamworthyGoods]

Rather thought the same thing myself when I was writing my reply earlier! I posted after a long shift.

Out of interest, is there an expression for that? If not, can I suggest "sharking"; because the two lines on the graph look like jaws and it eats up capacity further down the line?

Indeed and with the volume of Mendips aggregate traffic capacity on the B&H is at a premium.

 

[nw1]

I remember the days when you could reach Charing Cross directly from Bromley North .

In 1982 it was a 20-min shuttle, with good connection (3-4 mins) in both directions with the London service.

 

[brad465]

I know I'm bumping from a fair way back here, but it seems a poor decision not to flight it such that the Penzance fast runs behind the Plymouth semi-fast, to maintain existing connections and journey times for intermediate stations. I'm sure it's not the main concern and no doubt constrained by other services, but when GWR operate 95% of trains in their geographical area, you would have thought they could do slightly better.

What I think is notable is that despite the new service at 12:05 being slower than the now-express 12:03, until Taunton the gap is quite tight. The 2 minute gap extends to 6 minutes after Reading, but considering Castle-Cary-Cogload Jct is 2 aspect with long signal blocks, I wonder if the 12:05 could still get a red just after CLC if it takes more than 6 minutes to get to Somerton Ground frame, the next signal. After Cogload/Taunton though the gap widens further and 3-4 aspect signalling improves the flow, subject to what is going on with Bristol-Exeter corridor trains.

 

[sammyg901]

There are also additions to chiltern that i can see:

new 0721 Princes Risborough - Marylebone added in from Tuesday - Thursday
0637 Oxford - Marylebone no longer calls at Princes Risborough and Beaconsfield, and is now set down only at High Wycombe. The calling pattern is the same as it is now for Monday & Friday.

Also new 1737 Marylebone - Princes Risborough, calling at High Wycombe. 1737 Marylebone - Birmingham Snow Hill is retimed to 1733, although the calling pattern appears the same.

Is this the first case of additional services from Tuesday - Thursday reflecting post pandemic hybrid working?

IIRC there is a class 68 hauled service that operates Tu-Thur from Princes Risborough towards London in the morning but Mon & Fri that runs as a unit, presumably by adjusting other stock lengths. So a form of demand related adjustment.

The clock face timetable didn't last long! Beaconsfield were a big loser of the evening pattern so I'm not surprised to see this adjustment, the 1749 is overcrowded whenever I've seen it. I'd suspect these additionals could also be a hauled set as they were during the GWR issues affecting Oxford services.

 

[HullRailMan]

The loss of through services from Hull to Manchester is one of the most eye opening changes I've spotted. I don't remember a time when Hull has ever had no direct service to Manchester and it feels like a very retrograde step. Does also slightly undermine the claims about "improvements" from June...

EDIT - on further inspection, I might have jumped the gun somewhat, and it looks like this might be a time limited thing (linked to engineering works for the TRU?).

Yes, looking at a random day in August the Manchester services are back, so the Leeds only services just be engineering related as you say.

That said, TPE are operating a confusing mix of some services to Piccadilly and some to Victoria, with daytime services still stopping at every village. So far, the ‘improved’ nationalised TPE has given Hull shorter trains and a slower service than BR managed 30 years ago. Talk about progress

 

[irish_rail]

What I think is notable is that despite the new service at 12:05 being slower than the now-express 12:03, until Taunton the gap is quite tight. The 2 minute gap extends to 6 minutes after Reading, but considering Castle-Cary-Cogload Jct is 2 aspect with long signal blocks, I wonder if the 12:05 could still get a red just after CLC if it takes more than 6 minutes to get to Somerton Ground frame, the next signal. After Cogload/Taunton though the gap widens further and 3-4 aspect signalling improves the flow, subject to what is going on with Bristol-Exeter corridor trains.

Too be honest, being checked after Castle Cary is pretty much the norm on any "fast" that follows a xx36 "stopper". In my experience the stopper is ALWAYS caught up by the fast, either before or after Castle Cary, either way, the fast is almost always delayed. I'd personally like to see the xx36 stopper leave Paddington earlier, say 5 minutes or so, though I suspect there are pathing reasons why this doesn't happen, as the current situation does not work very well. The current 1203 off London does have a decent chance at an on time arrival at Plymouth due to there being no 1136 stopper in front of it.

 

[nw1]

IIRC there is a class 68 hauled service that operates Tu-Thur from Princes Risborough towards London in the morning but Mon & Fri that runs as a unit, presumably by adjusting other stock lengths. So a form of demand related adjustment.

The clock face timetable didn't last long! Beaconsfield were a big loser of the evening pattern so I'm not surprised to see this adjustment, the 1749 is overcrowded whenever I've seen it. I'd suspect these additionals could also be a hauled set as they were during the GWR issues affecting Oxford services.

Do the new services call at Beaconsfield though? The 1737 mentioned is being described as first stop High Wycombe.

 

[brad465]

Too be honest, being checked after Castle Cary is pretty much the norm on any "fast" that follows a xx36 "stopper". In my experience the stopper is ALWAYS caught up by the fast, either before or after Castle Cary, either way, the fast is almost always delayed. I'd personally like to see the xx36 stopper leave Paddington earlier, say 5 minutes or so, though I suspect there are pathing reasons why this doesn't happen, as the current situation does not work very well. The current 1203 off London does have a decent chance at an on time arrival at Plymouth due to there being no 1136 stopper in front of it.

I used to get the 10:03 from PAD-TAU en route to Bridgwater weekly for a number of weeks in 2022 and remember what you describe often happening. When the Taunton stop was removed the 09:36 was also sped up to run fast from Reading-Westbury, presumably to keep it ahead for long enough to make that non-stop run more worth it.

I read on here somewhere a while back that upgrading the signalling between Castle Cary and Cogload is proposed in the next Control Period, but I don't think it's confirmed and in any case won't be done before this timetable change. I think they'd have to upgrade the signalling though if a Langport-Somerton station opens in the near future.

 

[irish_rail]

I used to get the 10:03 from PAD-TAU en route to Bridgwater weekly for a number of weeks in 2022 and remember what you describe often happening. When the Taunton stop was removed the 09:36 was also sped up to run fast from Reading-Westbury, presumably to keep it ahead for long enough to make that non-stop run more worth it.

I read on here somewhere a while back that upgrading the signalling between Castle Cary and Cogload is proposed in the next Control Period, but I don't think it's confirmed and in any case won't be done before this timetable change. I think they'd have to upgrade the signalling though if a Langport-Somerton station opens in the near future.

A new signal section installed between Castle Cary and Somerton would be a big help, but I fear not high on the priority list of upgrades, yet for fast services to the south west would be a potential game changer in terms of punctuality.

 

[mangyiscute]

I'd personally like to see the xx36 stopper leave Paddington earlier, say 5 minutes or so, though I suspect there are pathing reasons why this doesn't happen, as the current situation does not work very well.

Assuming you could shift around the order the trains leave Paddington, since there is a bristol at xx:30 and a Cheltenham at xx:32 (or this one could leave at xx:28), I think it would run into pathing issues around Southcote Junction - the Bournemouth xc leaves reading at xx:52, and then the xc from Basingstoke passes Southcote Junction at xx:01, and often there is a freight or Basingstoke stopper etc within the gap between those services as well. Therefore, this train runs just after the northbound xc, and i doubt could run any earlier.

 

[Baji]

Another interesting observation. The 0631 from Epsom to Victoria now starts from Horsham and the 1725 from Victoria to Epsom will now continue onto Horsham

All the Southern trains to Hemel Hempstead have been eliminated

Where does it say that. The only thing I can find is west coastway changes

 

[PGAT]

Where does it say that. The only thing I can find is west coastway changes

If you look on Realtimetrains the Hemel Hempstead trains dont show up

 

[Southern Dvr]

Where does it say that. The only thing I can find is west coastway changes

I don’t think they’re making a big deal about it. They rarely do when it’s cuts to services. Odd that.

 

[Kite159]

Assuming the random Southern service to Hemel is simply running to the bay at Watford then it's not a massive loss. Any passengers for Hemel can simply change at Harrow & Wealdstone for a same platform change to a following LNR service with a ~10 minute delay. You win some, you loss some.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Assuming the random Southern service to Hemel is simply running to the bay at Watford then it's not a massive loss. Any passengers for Hemel can simply change at Harrow & Wealdstone for a same platform change to a following LNR service with a ~10 minute delay. You win some, you loss some.

The Hemel terminators are missing entirely with some 2 hour gaps. It thus strikes me that they're probably just not in yet - as they're very much the busy peak services I'd be astonished if they were just dropped entirely rather than turning at Watford instead.

 

[infobleep]

The MKC to WFJ change saved them 4x 377/2 units I believe and allowed them to dump the 455s.

The Hemel workings are done in the same time the unit dwells in the bay at Watford for. It meant that if the bay was not available then the unit could go to Hemel and come back again.

Do you know the reason why they refused it?could Govia Thameslink Railway appeal if they wished?

 

[sammyg901]

Do the new services call at Beaconsfield though? The 1737 mentioned is being described as first stop High Wycombe.

1745 Oxford calls there off-pattern

 

[Baji]

I am surprised there are 1725 London Victoria to Horsham via Hackbridge is Followed by the 1741 London Victoria to Horsham via Hackbridge. Two Victoria to Horsham services close together

I would have thought instead they would extend the 1811 London to Dorking to Horsham, or added an additional service departing London Victoria at 1655 for trains towards Epsom from Victoria.

 

[30907]

I am surprised there are 1725 London Victoria to Horsham via Hackbridge is Followed by the 1741 London Victoria to Horsham via Hackbridge. Two Victoria to Horsham services close together

I would have thought instead they would extend the 1811 London to Dorking to Horsham, or added an additional service departing London Victoria at 1655 for trains towards Epsom from Victoria.

When planners add a train to an existing timetable, they don't change more than is absolutely necessary because of all the other arrangements (stock and crew diagrams) that would need tweaking.

 

[steve_brown]

On GA, the 17:30 ex LST is going to be carnage from June, with the 17:00 having the MNG call removed (also neatly severing the fast Harwich option), the 17:30 retaining the COL call and the 17:50 retimed to depart LST at 18:00.

17:30 is currently full and standing at LST by 17:20 and full to the point of regularly crowding-off from Tuesday to Thursday. Hope there's a medium term plan!

Also MNG loses its first Up Off-Peak service, the current 08:53 departure, albeit that was a bit of a luxury arriving 10:00 on the dot.

 

[swt_passenger]

If you look on Realtimetrains the Hemel Hempstead trains dont show up

This was also predicted a few weeks back when the recent Southern track access application for June mentioned that the Hemel extensions would expire at the next change date and they had not asked for them to continue.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2024 ==

The Hemel terminators are missing entirely with some 2 hour gaps. It thus strikes me that they're probably just not in yet - as they're very much the busy peak services I'd be astonished if they were just dropped entirely rather than turning at Watford instead.

As above reply

 

[Southern Dvr]

This was also predicted a few weeks back when the recent Southern track access application for June mentioned that the Hemel extensions would expire at the next change date and they had not asked for them to continue.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2024 ==


As above reply

Do you have a link to that track access application?

The Hemel trains (certainly the 0731 off Hemel) are very well loaded.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do you have a link to that track access application?

The Hemel trains (certainly the 0731 off Hemel) are very well loaded.

It’s probably easiest to download the “form P“ as a pdf directly from the “West Coastway“ thread here:

Southern timetable changes consultation Coastway West

Did anybody archive or download any of the documents that were linked in post 166? Looks to have been completely taken down now.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[dk1]

On GA, the 17:30 ex LST is going to be carnage from June, with the 17:00 having the MNG call removed (also neatly severing the fast Harwich option), the 17:30 retaining the COL call and the 17:50 retimed to depart LST at 18:00.

17:30 is currently full and standing at LST by 17:20 and full to the point of regularly crowding-off from Tuesday to Thursday. Hope there's a medium term plan!

Recently one of the Senior Conductors took well over £1k on the 17:30 down. Was mainly upgrades to First Class to obtain a seat and those with wrong train Advance Purchase tickets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2024 ==

Also MNG loses its first Up Off-Peak service, the current 08:53 departure, albeit that was a bit of a luxury arriving 10:00 on the dot.

Yes I had mentioned this earlier in the thread. With the 08:00 becoming a peak train the already busy 08:30 now takes this honour and has had Stowmarket & Chelmsford added to its calling points. When the ridiculously flexible hare fares are offered they really need to be barred from this service. One to watch with interest.

 

[350401]

I think it’s been touched on before, but the changes to the peak time Bromley North shuttle service are awful. It changes a useful service into one that a lot of people will ignore in favour of the bus. The morning peak has the 3tph service reduced from 7am to 10am, to just 7-8am. This removes the key city bound train, which was 08.14, connecting to the 8.23 Grove Park to Cannon St. They’ve then introduced 3tph from 5pm to 7pm, which breaks the links to the Charing X trains and leaves quite a few 15 minute waits at Grove Park. The peak trains are not at clockface 20 minute intervals, but are at quite random times.

The current timetable works well, I wish they’d left it alone. As it is, I suspect I’ll be using the new superloop bus a fair bit from Bromley North to Chislehurst and getting the trains from there.

 

[Class15]

I noticed in the new timetable, GWR Didcot services now don’t stop anywhere in London. They used to stop at Ealing and Hayes, and possibly others as well. Anyone know why?

 

[hexagon789]

I noticed in the new timetable, GWR Didcot services now don’t stop anywhere in London. They used to stop at Ealing and Hayes, and possibly others as well. Anyone know why?

Unless I'm missing something they are currently fast Slough to Paddington?

 

[XCTurbostar]

I noticed in the new timetable, GWR Didcot services now don’t stop anywhere in London. They used to stop at Ealing and Hayes, and possibly others as well. Anyone know why?

This has been the case since December.. first stop Slough.

 

[Class15]

Unless I'm missing something they are currently fast Slough to Paddington?

Oh, maybe this is a previous change. Never noticed it before. In that case, when did that happen and why?

 

[Class15]

This has been the case since December.. first stop Slough.

Ahh, I see. Any reason why? That service was quite useful.