June 2024 Timetable Change

[splashoutradio]

It's early days, so probably best not to take these as gospel, but June 2024 timetables (first drafts) are now online at www.railwaydata.co.uk/timetables/May24

Coverage around the South East is patchy, but the rest of the UK is pretty well covered.

 

[ScotGG]

That was generally the issue especially on the Woolwich line with connections off Abbey Wood that Southeastern had rather unceremoniously binned off because of the impact of the Elizabeth line without full realisation people were still need to connect there! It's currently as bad as 3/27 min gaps towards Dartford

It's 15 minutes (!) at some times in the peak going forward, but is normally 9/21 which still isn't ideal, but better at least.

It really does show how short sited DaFT are.

They could be capitalizing on connections to Crossrail from their own TOC Southeastern under operator of last resort. Instead they demanded cuts as soon as lizzie line opened for services feeding into it giving the worst service in the area for decades.

It looks slightly better from June but still poor. Restore the axed services! With half decent promotion it'd pay for itself. Moronic short term ism from government.

 

[John Bray]

I complained to Southeastern, and got this completely useless and irrelevant answer.

From your recent comments, I understand that you are unhappy with the proposed timetable changes for the June timetable. This is because two trains from Orpington to London Bridge have been removed meaning there is a 38 minute gap between trains. Whereas, there is a 15 minute gap between trains departing from Sevenoaks.

After looking further in to this, I can see that the changes that have been made are that trains will run every 15 minutes all day from stations between Hither Green and Petts Wood towards Orpington and have been better spaced out towards London. Bromley North services increase to 3 trains per hour during the busiest times in the evening, leaving London between 16:40 and 19:40.

 

[Bikeman78]

I complained to Southeastern, and got this completely useless and irrelevant answer.

What was your complaint? The stoppers between London Bridge and Orpington are fairly well spaced out. However, they couldn't have timed the Bromley North shuttle any worse if they tried. 20 minutes wait in the down direction, and a rather tight four minutes in the up direction. If it departed 10 minutes later from Grove Park, there would be a 10 minute connection both ways.

 

[John Bray]

I was complaining about the fast service from Orpington, and got a stock answer about the slow services, which are irrelevant as they are nearly all overtaken (unless of course you have huge gaps between the fast trains). According to RTT one train isn't being removed, just its 0922 stop at Orpington, pushing its customers onto the illogical 0938 fast Orpington starter, only they've removed that too. The 0950 with its offpeak traffic from Sevenoaks and beyond won't be able to cope with the extra demand

 

[cle]

Would 2tph Grove Park - Bromley North with intentional feed timings (5-6 mins each way) into the faster London services be more useful than 3tph?

Local journeys could also go by bus.

 

[frodshamfella]

What was your complaint? The stoppers between London Bridge and Orpington are fairly well spaced out. However, they couldn't have timed the Bromley North shuttle any worse if they tried. 20 minutes wait in the down direction, and a rather tight four minutes in the up direction. If it departed 10 minutes later from Grove Park, there would be a 10 minute connection both ways.

I remember the days when you could reach Charing Cross directly from Bromley North .

 

[eoff]

Yeah there have been a few short forms in recent weeks that have made the local newspaper with instances of people being left at Prestonpans so not a hope of get on or off at Wallyford and Musselburgh.

Complaints about the 0753 off North Berwick are common but they have intensified over recent weeks. The problem with that one is it’s the only one that gets you into Edinburgh at the moment between 8 and 9am from any of the East Lothian stations

I came to post a new topic about the launch of this "new" service as I was amazed by the way it was presented in the local newspaper (link below)...

Additional morning Edinburgh-bound rail service to launch this summer

AN ADDITIONAL rail service connecting Prestonpans, Wallyford and Musselburgh with Edinburgh will launch this summer.

www.eastlothiancourier.com

The train around 0805 (moved around by a few minutes) was the train I used for many years and it was cut in the COVID timetable and did not return.
I wonder if anyone remembers when this service started, I presume it was introduced due to the extra passengers at Wallyford and Musselburgh and the previous era of overcrowding on the line.

 

[sjm77]

I came to post a new topic about the launch of this "new" service as I was amazed by the way it was presented in the local newspaper (link below)...

Strangely this new/re-instated service is not showing in the new summer timetable on rail data centre

RailwayData | Table 043 - Dunbar & North Berwick - Edinburgh (Summer 2024)

Timetables for the English, Scottish and Welsh national networks.

www.railwaydata.co.uk

 

[md2016]

For Chiltern the only changes ive noticed (there may be others) is that:
The 1707 Marylebone to Stourbridge Junction is sped up by 15 minutes with the long dwell at Birmingham Snow Hill removed, departs snow hill 1912 (vice 1924) arriving into Stourbridge Junction 1935 instead of 1950.

On Saturdays the 0703 Amersham to Aylesbury is extended to Aylesbury Vale Parkway.

Its just a shame nothing has been done about the 85 minute gap at West Ruislip, Northolt Park and Sudbury Hill Harrow after the 1518 High Wycombe to Marylebone calls at those stations, with the next service the 1709 West Ruislip to Marylebone. Frustratingly there is a 1611 ECS from High Wycombe to Marylebone that really ought to run in service and plug the 85 minute gap in the late afternoon at the inner London stations

There are also additions to chiltern that i can see:

new 0721 Princes Risborough - Marylebone added in from Tuesday - Thursday
0637 Oxford - Marylebone no longer calls at Princes Risborough and Beaconsfield, and is now set down only at High Wycombe. The calling pattern is the same as it is now for Monday & Friday.

Also new 1737 Marylebone - Princes Risborough, calling at High Wycombe. 1737 Marylebone - Birmingham Snow Hill is retimed to 1733, although the calling pattern appears the same.

Is this the first case of additional services from Tuesday - Thursday reflecting post pandemic hybrid working?

Looks like they've switched Beaconsfield in to the 1745 to Oxford and removed High Wycombe, which makes sense with the addition of the 1737 and the fact that BCF was probably the only station slower peak than off peak.

 

[norbitonflyer]

the Manchester-Sheffield and Sheffield-Doncaster-Goole-Hull semi-fasts being combined into a through service, utilising the high-quality 124 DMU stock released from the previous Liverpool-Hull workings (augmented I believe by similar 123 vehicles offloaded by the WR?)

Very much augmented. Mixed formations seemed to be the norm. I recall on one occasion travelling on a DMU formation made up entirely of compartment stock - two class 123 DMSKs sandwiching a class 124 TBSK (former non-driving MBSK)

 

[Chrism20]

I came to post a new topic about the launch of this "new" service as I was amazed by the way it was presented in the local newspaper (link below)...

Additional morning Edinburgh-bound rail service to launch this summer

AN ADDITIONAL rail service connecting Prestonpans, Wallyford and Musselburgh with Edinburgh will launch this summer.

www.eastlothiancourier.com

The train around 0805 (moved around by a few minutes) was the train I used for many years and it was cut in the COVID timetable and did not return.
I wonder if anyone remembers when this service started, I presume it was introduced due to the extra passengers at Wallyford and Musselburgh and the previous era of overcrowding on the line.

Can’t help you with the actual start date but when I moved down that way in 2007 the Prestonpans starter ran then and was at 0808

 

[eoff]

Can’t help you with the actual start date but when I moved down that way in 2007 the Prestonpans starter ran then and was at 0808

Thanks, I found a timetable from 2004 showing an 0808 Prestonpans to Edinburgh service.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Sadly, STILL no hourly Sunday Manchester to Chester via Altrincham. It will soon be a decade since this was first mooted.

 

[Llandudno]

Sadly, STILL no hourly Sunday Manchester to Chester via Altrincham. It will soon be a decade since this was first mooted.

I reckon there will still be only a train every 2 hours at the end of the next decade as well!

At least the Leeds - Manchester - Chester service now runs hourly on Sundays.

 

[Kite159]

Sadly still a lack of LNR services between Stafford & Wolverhampton on Sunday mornings to help take some of the loadings from the massively overcrowded XC voyagers, the first LNR train to Birmingham direct isn't until 11:39 getting into Birmingham after midday (coming from Liverpool). Slightly faster connections available, changing at Rugeley (or Lichfield), but since the Crewe - Birmingham via Stoke trains got cut back to Stafford morning LNR services don't exist.

 

[Southern Dvr]

All the Southern trains to Hemel Hempstead have been eliminated

Am told Network Rail refused the pathways.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2024 ==

Hopefully they're still to be added - they come in very handy for me!

Nope. They’re gone I’m afraid.

 

[A S Leib]

Am told Network Rail refused the pathways.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2024 ==


Nope. They’re gone I’m afraid.

Any idea whether or not they'd conflict with routes taken by Grand Union's Stirling services (although I doubt they'd be at the train driver training stage yet if they're not even certain on rolling stock yet)?

At least there's still 4 tph to Watford Junction (and the option of St. Albans for routes via East Croydon, although that's more expensive, and slower if taking the bus).

 

[Horizon22]

Any idea whether or not they'd conflict with routes taken by Grand Union's Stirling services (although I doubt they'd be at the train driver training stage yet if they're not even certain on rolling stock yet)?

At least there's still 4 tph to Watford Junction (and the option of St. Albans for routes via East Croydon, although that's more expensive, and slower if taking the bus).

It's a route progressively being scaled back though, considering it very recently reached Milton Keynes Central. Might now be saving Southern a unit or two though.

 

[PGAT]

It really sucks though because there are now 2 hour gaps to Watford at certain times and the first train out is an hour later

 

[465fan]

That was generally the issue especially on the Woolwich line with connections off Abbey Wood that Southeastern had rather unceremoniously binned off because of the impact of the Elizabeth line without full realisation people were still need to connect there! It's currently as bad as 3/27 min gaps towards Dartford

It's 15 minutes (!) at some times in the peak going forward, but is normally 9/21 which still isn't ideal, but better at least.

It's a bloody great shame they elected not to have a relatively even 4tph via Abbey Wood to Gravesend. The Victoria to Gravesend is a pale imitation when you consider Gravesend, Greenhithe and Dartford could have had a through, turn-up-and-go frequency to get to/from Crossrail. Such a bloody shame.

 

[Southern Dvr]

It's a route progressively being scaled back though, considering it very recently reached Milton Keynes Central. Might now be saving Southern a unit or two though.

It isn’t. There’s no saving on unit, operating costs or crew. This is a Network Rail decision. End of. Nothing to do with GTR allegedly.

It really sucks though because there are now 2 hour gaps to Watford at certain times and the first train out is an hour later

There aren't that I’m aware of. I’ve seen the crew workings.

 

[Horizon22]

It isn’t. There’s no saving on unit, operating costs or crew. This is a Network Rail decision. End of. Nothing to do with GTR allegedly.

There aren't that I’m aware of. I’ve seen the crew workings.

Well comparing a MKC to a WFJ termination over several years will definitely not need the same stock levels simply through running time. Odd as the pathways are GTR's historically, so there must be some other underlying reasons.

It does have a rather extensive turnaround time at Watford Junction though.

 

[PGAT]

There aren't that I’m aware of. I’ve seen the crew workings.

Ah ok I only say this because the paths have been completely removed from RTT

 

[driverd]

On GW there’s some summer weekday West Country enhancements to try and tackle overcrowding on the lunchtime Paddington to Penzance trains.

The existing 12.03 Paddington to Penzance looses its calls at Reading, Taunton, Newton Abbot and Totnes. Exeter St David’s becomes a pick up only call. Train remains booked a 9 car 80x.

A new 12.05 Paddington to Plymouth operates, formed 9 car 80x calling at Reading, Taunton, Exeter, Newton Abbot and Totnes returning with an additional 15:49 Plymouth to Paddington.

I know I'm bumping from a fair way back here, but it seems a poor decision not to flight it such that the Penzance fast runs behind the Plymouth semi-fast, to maintain existing connections and journey times for intermediate stations. I'm sure it's not the main concern and no doubt constrained by other services, but when GWR operate 95% of trains in their geographical area, you would have thought they could do slightly better.

 

[465fan]

I know I'm bumping from a fair way back here, but it seems a poor decision not to flight it such that the Penzance fast runs behind the Plymouth semi-fast, to maintain existing connections and journey times for intermediate stations. I'm sure it's not the main concern and no doubt constrained by other services, but when GWR operate 95% of trains in their geographical area, you would have thought they could do slightly better.

If you flighted it behind, you'd either have tens of minutes of pathing allowances or you'd leave 30 minutes later. If connections from smaller / regional stations were that important you'd not bother. It's clearly the case that the Cornish traffic generates so much by itself it doesn't need the added traffic. The 12:05 connects onto a regional so the 'more' stations (e.g. Reading, Taunton) can connect to all the small stations such as Saltash and St Germans.

 

[driverd]

If you flighted it behind, you'd either have tens of minutes of pathing allowances or you'd leave 30 minutes later. If connections from smaller / regional stations were that important you'd not bother. It's clearly the case that the Cornish traffic generates so much by itself it doesn't need the added traffic. The 12:05 connects onto a regional so the 'more' stations (e.g. Reading, Taunton) can connect to all the small stations such as Saltash and St Germans.

I'm aware of the timing implications. I just meant that, for intermediate stations, they've increased journey times somewhat. I appreciate its unlikely to be a huge flow, but just a bit of a shame.

 

[MCR247]

I know I'm bumping from a fair way back here, but it seems a poor decision not to flight it such that the Penzance fast runs behind the Plymouth semi-fast, to maintain existing connections and journey times for intermediate stations. I'm sure it's not the main concern and no doubt constrained by other services, but when GWR operate 95% of trains in their geographical area, you would have thought they could do slightly better.

Would this not be the opposite of flighting?

 

[driverd]

Would this not be the opposite of flighting?

Rather thought the same thing myself when I was writing my reply earlier! I posted after a long shift.

Out of interest, is there an expression for that? If not, can I suggest "sharking"; because the two lines on the graph look like jaws and it eats up capacity further down the line?

 

[Southern Dvr]

Well comparing a MKC to a WFJ termination over several years will definitely not need the same stock levels simply through running time. Odd as the pathways are GTR's historically, so there must be some other underlying reasons.

It does have a rather extensive turnaround time at Watford Junction though.

The MKC to WFJ change saved them 4x 377/2 units I believe and allowed them to dump the 455s.

The Hemel workings are done in the same time the unit dwells in the bay at Watford for. It meant that if the bay was not available then the unit could go to Hemel and come back again.