June 2024 Timetable Change

[swt_passenger]

It certainly is an increase, I’m not sure they’re particularly useable to passengers though because of the time of day. The evening additional replaces 5Y08 route refresh. The other two I think currently run ECS out of Northam to Portsmouth or Havant.

I remember a few years back that they explained in a TAA that trains running empty to Havant to start towards Waterloo were regularly being sent accidentally by the signallers towards Portsmouth at Cosham Junction. So the solution was to start them in passenger service from Fareham in order to prevent any confusion. So it’s possible that‘s still a factor, but it does lead to a strangely unbalanced service. It’s great if you want to go somewhere up the direct for the evening from Fareham, but not so helpful if you’re coming back…

 

[PGAT]

Southeastern is now up

 

[InOban]

I've been alerted by an item in the local paper, but there will be an additional train starting at 8.02 from Prestonpans calling at Wallyford and Musselburgh. With all the new housing estates in the area there's increasing overcrowding on the North Berwick services.

 

[Chrism20]

I've been alerted by an item in the local paper, but there will be an additional train starting at 8.02 from Prestonpans calling at Wallyford and Musselburgh. With all the new housing estates in the area there's increasing overcrowding on the North Berwick services.

Pretty sure this service ran pre-covid. There was definitely a Prestonpans starter back then due to the chronic overcrowding on the North Berwick service that was usually at the back of it.

The Blindwells development has increased usage but there has been overcrowding issues forever there. I’m surprised it taken them as long to put it back and suspect it come about due to the absolute carnage ScotRail have caused over the last few weeks down in East Lothian

 

[Chiltern006]

Southeastern is now up

From what I’ve looked at no major changes apart from Victoria to Dartford services going to Gravesend

Some minor retimings on the Hastings Line, with all the Hastings services reverting back to pre-December 2022, with them leaving at xx15 and xx45 off Charing Cross

 

[InOban]

Pretty sure this service ran pre-covid. There was definitely a Prestonpans starter back then due to the chronic overcrowding on the North Berwick service that was usually at the back of it.

The Blindwells development has increased usage but there has been overcrowding issues forever there. I’m surprised it taken them as long to put it back and suspect it come about due to the absolute carnage ScotRail have caused over the last few weeks down in East Lothian

how have they caused carnage? Short-forming?

 

[PGAT]

From what I’ve looked at no major changes apart from Victoria to Dartford services going to Gravesend

6tph on Greenwich line, 4tph at Albany Park as well as more evenly spaced trains on the Sidcup line and I believe slightly more trains on the Grove Park line in the peak

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Kent metro services have been much more evenly spaced out.

 

[JWK]

Re the Southeastern times that have just gone up, either I’m missing something or there’s still some trains missing, but there seems to have been a near-total withdrawal of services from the Blackheath-Charlton line?

 

[mangyiscute]

Re the Southeastern times that have just gone up, either I’m missing something or there’s still some trains missing, but there seems to have been a near-total withdrawal of services from the Blackheath-Charlton line?

Probably just trains that are still missing.

On GWR the only differences I can notice on mainline services are just a couple "crowd busting" services for the 1618 and 1918 services to Swansea/Carmarthen (as well as the previously mentioned 1203/1205 services towards Exeter), which will run non stop to Bristol Parkway, and a new 1612/1912 service from London to Bristol Parkway will run calling at the normal stations beforehand plus Didcot.

 

[Chrism20]

how have they caused carnage? Short-forming?

Yeah there have been a few short forms in recent weeks that have made the local newspaper with instances of people being left at Prestonpans so not a hope of get on or off at Wallyford and Musselburgh.

Complaints about the 0753 off North Berwick are common but they have intensified over recent weeks. The problem with that one is it’s the only one that gets you into Edinburgh at the moment between 8 and 9am from any of the East Lothian stations

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Re the Southeastern times that have just gone up, either I’m missing something or there’s still some trains missing, but there seems to have been a near-total withdrawal of services from the Blackheath-Charlton line?

There is a 10 week blockade of Blackheath to Charlton this Summer. Starts end of May and ends in August.

 

[JWK]

There is a 10 week blockade of Blackheath to Charlton this Summer. Starts end of May and ends in August.

Well that would explain the lack of any passenger trains past Angerstein Junction in June, then, thanks! I won’t embarrass myself by asking Southeastern where the statutory closure consultation is….

 

[ponponjo]

Some minor retimings on the Hastings Line, with all the Hastings services reverting back to pre-December 2022, with them leaving at xx15 and xx45 off Charing Cross

That's great, results in better off peak connections at Orpington with fast services in/out of London for passengers for the stations between Orpington and Sevenoaks, rather than a tedious slow crawl via Lewisham.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

6tph on Greenwich line, 4tph at Albany Park as well as more evenly spaced trains on the Sidcup line and I believe slightly more trains on the Grove Park line in the peak

6tph on Greenwich line is only temporary while the 10 week Blakckheath tunnel is on. 2tph will revert to running via Lewisham during August.

 

[PGAT]

6tph on Greenwich line is only temporary while the 10 week Blakckheath tunnel is on. 2tph will revert to running via Lewisham during August.

My bad

 

[stevieinselby]

The Manchester-Huddersfield and Leeds-Huddersfield stopping services only relatively recently transferred to TPE from Northern didn’t they?

I understand it was because the line was being fitted with some form of signalling or train control mechanism that wasn't used anywhere else on the Northern network ... so rather than fit out a load of trains and train up more crew at Northern, it made more sense to move the operation into TPX where all the trains and crew were going to be geared up for it anyway.

 

[3RDGEN]

The loss of through services from Hull to Manchester is one of the most eye opening changes I've spotted. I don't remember a time when Hull has ever had no direct service to Manchester and it feels like a very retrograde step. Does also slightly undermine the claims about "improvements" from June...

EDIT - on further inspection, I might have jumped the gun somewhat, and it looks like this might be a time limited thing (linked to engineering works for the TRU?).

Leeds - Dewsbury/Mirfield appears to be shut for four weeks from 24th June, TPE are running their usual engineering timetable with the Newcastle & Saltburn services running via Wakefield Kirkgate and the Hull services to Leeds only.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I understand it was because the line was being fitted with some form of signalling or train control mechanism that wasn't used anywhere else on the Northern network ... so rather than fit out a load of trains and train up more crew at Northern, it made more sense to move the operation into TPX where all the trains and crew were going to be geared up for it anyway.

That’s the ETCS installation as part of the TP Upgrade, which hasn’t happened yet, and as I understand it, will be an ‘overlay’ on the existing lineside signalling.

 

[YorksLad12]

The Manchester-Huddersfield and Leeds-Huddersfield stopping services only relatively recently transferred to TPE from Northern didn’t they?

I understand it was because the line was being fitted with some form of signalling or train control mechanism that wasn't used anywhere else on the Northern network ... so rather than fit out a load of trains and train up more crew at Northern, it made more sense to move the operation into TPX where all the trains and crew were going to be geared up for it anyway.

That’s the ETCS installation as part of the TP Upgrade, which hasn’t happened yet, and as I understand it, will be an ‘overlay’ on the existing lineside signalling.

It's because of wanting to have only one operator during electrification, which should have started in 2018 - the swap was built into the new franchises starting in April 2016. Electrification was paused, but because the swaps were franchise commitments, they went ahead. Yes, it's stoopid.

The swap back now might be to free up a couple of 185s, and assumes Northern has a couple of units spare to fill the gap, which isn't a 'gimme'.

 

[Minstral25]

This reminds me, and highlighting a minor neerdy aspect of this timetable change, I noticed the following

The Monday to Friday 14:54 Reading to Gatwick Airport service currently arrives and departs Reigate at 16:04 with a pathing allowance of 4 minutes to Redhill.

From June, it arrives at 16:03 and departs 16:08 with only a 1 minute pathing allowance to Redhill.

On Saturday's though, this train currently arrives at 16:07 and departs 16:08 with no pathing allowance. From June it will do the same but with a pathing allowance of 1½ minutes.

That is just one example. I'm sure there will be others.

It looks like the arrival time at Reigate varies with the stops the service makes and it's put into a standard clockface time frame from Reigate to Gatwick (presumably to merge inbetween the clockface Thameslink/Southern timetable). So it can have between 5 and 1 minute standing at Reigate

GWR have significantly enhanced the Sunday service on the North Downs Line by extending the xx:51 (now xx:50) Reading - Redhill's through to Gatwick Airport, giving a 2tph frequency from the major stops to the airport and 1tph or 1tp2h direct links from the minor stations. Good news.

It actually seems they have rewritten the timetable to adopt the Monday to Saturday approach of two semi-fasts with different calling patterns rather than extending a specific service.

 

[stevieinselby]

It's because of wanting to have only one operator during electrification, which should have started in 2018 - the swap was built into the new franchises starting in April 2016. Electrification was paused, but because the swaps were franchise commitments, they went ahead. Yes, it's stoopid.

The irony being that Northern had far more experience of running electric units on local stopping services, what with the 323s, 319s and the 331s on order, and so would have been in a better position to keep the service ... and no change to the stopping services between Leeds and York. I think the ETCS installation is a more likely answer (and rings a bell with what I remember)

 

[IanXC]

The irony being that Northern had far more experience of running electric units on local stopping services, what with the 323s, 319s and the 331s on order, and so would have been in a better position to keep the service ... and no change to the stopping services between Leeds and York. I think the ETCS installation is a more likely answer (and rings a bell with what I remember)

It came at the back end of efforts to simplify the franchise map that gave us the 'one London Terminal' operators such as EMR, GWR and Greater Anglia.

The idea was that the service would be easier to manage if more trains were run by the same operator.

ETCS definitely isn't it, the franchise agreements when granted had Northern continuing to operate on all of the main TP route, and indeed included provision for Northern to fit all it's retained stock with the necessary equipment to be 'ETCS Ready'- which has been completed.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What, ETCS-ready on 323s and 769s (the likely trains Northern would put on Manchester-Huddersfield)?

 

[craigybagel]

What, ETCS-ready on 323s and 769s (the likely trains Northern would put on Manchester-Huddersfield)?

The 331s are ETCS ready. Should they ever need ETCS fitted units, it's likely they'd use those, with older units cascaded to release them if necessary.

I very much doubt by the time ETCS comes in the 769s will still be in service.

 

[IanXC]

What, ETCS-ready on 323s and 769s (the likely trains Northern would put on Manchester-Huddersfield)?

That wasn't the question.

The Arriva franchise agreement included a requirement to bring all the retained stock to 'ETCS ready' ie all the wiring and equipment boxes are present, making any future fitment a relatively quick project.

At the end of that after the fleet changes, I don't think we've seen anything to suggest the current situation for 323s and 769s.

At that time Northern would have operated peak time only Manchester to Huddersfield stoppers (intended to be 150/156), Leeds to Wigan via Dewsbury (intended to be 170s), Bradford to Huddersfield and Huddersfield to Castleford.

It's also far from clear those units would be used on Manchester - Huddersfield, given the timescale we're talking about and the extent to which those fleets are already committed to other lines of route....

 

[brad465]

There is a 10 week blockade of Blackheath to Charlton this Summer. Starts end of May and ends in August.

Is there a thread and/or web page detailing this further?

 

[John Bray]

They've removed 2 fast trains from Orpington to London Bridge early morning off-peak. There is now a 38 minute gap between 9:12 and 9:50. That's one through train that now won't stop, and one Orpington starter removed. They really don't want me to go to London for the day, do they.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

They've removed 2 fast trains from Orpington to London Bridge early morning off-peak. There is now a 42 minute gap between 9:12 and 9:50. That's one through train that now won't stop, and one Orpington starter removed. They really don't want me to go to London for the day, do they.

Not everything has been published yet.

 

[Horizon22]

Kent metro services have been much more evenly spaced out.

That was generally the issue especially on the Woolwich line with connections off Abbey Wood that Southeastern had rather unceremoniously binned off because of the impact of the Elizabeth line without full realisation people were still need to connect there! It's currently as bad as 3/27 min gaps towards Dartford

It's 15 minutes (!) at some times in the peak going forward, but is normally 9/21 which still isn't ideal, but better at least.