Journey spoilt by drunk people behaving badly including bad language

[Mac7777]

Hi - I am American and I lived in the UK for over 5 years and I traveled the world and I can say without any doubt that the UK is one of the best places in the world to live and I am very fortunate to have lived there.

That said, taking the national rail like i did tonight (one of many times i have) often means having to sit there on the train for 45 minutes listening to really drunk people (not under privileged people, it’s usually well to do guys in their 20s) - use the most awful language around my wife and daughters and what is shocking is no one does anything about it. The c-word, the f-word - over and over again with no regard for people around them. I like to have a drink and fun too but the lack of class is out of control.

There are no national rail employees around to do anything about it and the people on the train either don’t have enough courage or the cultural / or moral concern to want to change it so they sit there and do nothing about it (including me tonight and I’m ashamed).

I am American and I think we share the same values as you. But where I come from - there would be 20 dads ready to punch you in the face for talking like that in front of women and children and families. There would also be a train conductor to do something about it. That is not a culture anyone should want or allow.

I can’t change your culture but I can pledge to you that the next time it happens I will not sit silently again , i will ask them politely to have some class and to please stop swearing like that, and if that doesn’t help I will punch them in the face.

I ask the rest of you to please show some courage, show some pride for your country and culture, and do something about it.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I’m sorry you’ve had a rough journey home, we’ve all experienced that and it isn’t pleasant.

However I think anyone who resorts to physical assault in ANY circumstances (other than self-defence / physical defence of others) is also completely unacceptable behaviour, worse than any four letter profanity that might be within earshot.

Perhaps the American response is to stand up and challenge -which can only create conflict - , but the British tradition is to endure in silence, or move elsewhere (this would have protected the children?)

 

[185143]

Hi - I am American and I lived in the UK for over 5 years and I traveled the world and I can say without any doubt that the UK is one of the best places in the world to live and I am very fortunate to have lived there.

That said, taking the national rail like i did tonight (one of many times i have) often means having to sit there on the train for 45 minutes listening to really drunk people (not under privileged people, it’s usually well to do guys in their 20s) - use the most awful language around my wife and daughters and what is shocking is no one does anything about it. The c-word, the f-word - over and over again with no regard for people around them. I like to have a drink and fun too but the lack of class is out of control.

There are no national rail employees around to do anything about it and the people on the train either don’t have enough courage or the cultural / or moral concern to want to change it so they sit there and do nothing about it (including me tonight and I’m ashamed).

I am American and I think we share the same values as you. But where I come from - there would be 20 dads ready to punch you in the face for talking like that in front of women and children and families. There would also be a train conductor to do something about it. That is not a culture anyone should want or allow.

I can’t change your culture but I can pledge to you that the next time it happens I will not sit silently again , i will ask them politely to have some class and to please stop swearing like that, and if that doesn’t help I will punch them in the face.

I ask the rest of you to please show some courage, show some pride for your country and culture, and do something about it.

Expect to be dealt with the same way, and then removed from the train by BTP in that case...

 

[yorkie]

There are no national rail employees around to do anything about it and the people on the train either don’t have enough courage or the cultural / or moral concern to want to change it so they sit there and do nothing about it (including me tonight and I’m ashamed).

It's like this on many Saturday night trains; I experience this on trains out of places like Manchester, Leeds etc on a regular basis.

The Train Guard on such services tend to remain in their cabs in my experience (very different to e.g. Glasgow area electric trains where the ticket examiners are constantly patrolling the trains and are not allowed to be in the back cab).

The poor behaviour by some customers is more of an issue with society than the railways though; there is only so much rail companies/employees can do!

I am American and I think we share the same values as you. But where I come from - there would be 20 dads ready to punch you in the face for talking like that in front of women and children and families.

Assaulting people is not the answer; CCTV would see them nailed for that.

There would also be a train conductor to do something about it. That is not a culture anyone should want or allow.

The trains I usually see this sort of bad behaviour on do have Guards but on a Saturday night they just do the doors and don't do revenue duties. But if the Guards did walk through the train, there is a limit to what they can do, especially if they are on their own.

I can’t change your culture but I can pledge to you that the next time it happens I will not sit silently again , i will ask them politely to have some class and to please stop swearing like that, and if that doesn’t help I will punch them in the face.

You will be arrested, and the CCTV used as evidence against you.

I ask the rest of you to please show some courage, show some pride for your country and culture, and do something about it.

I "do something" where I can, but there are limits.

Just a few hours ago I defended a passenger today against another passenger who was being verbally aggressive and abusive and I'd do the same again in the same circumstances, but only because I was confident in my ability to deal with that individual but I wouldn't expect everyone to be able to do that as not everyone has experience of dealing with such behaviour (I do in one of my jobs). The outcome was pretty good in the end and the other people who were accompanying the abusive passenger agreed with me and calmed the individual down.

One of the people I was with didn't want me to get involved and wanted me to be silent. I know I made the right choice but there are times I won't get involved; each situation has to be judged on its own merits.

 

[433N]

Warning : this is a personal opinion that people may not agree with.

First, I think you should understand that your view that people should act a certain way in front of women and children is your view arising from your cultural values. Having lived in the States, I realise that there are many people here who think that we share American values and we have some kind of special cultural bond, maybe because we speak (more or less), the same language. We don't. We are two different countries who don't really have the same history or national experience. Perhaps we just don't feel so strongly about that here - there are, after all, alot worse things in the world.

However as a nation, we do often show little respect or politeness for each other, despite that perhaps being a perceived characteristic of ours around the world. In this regard, I find many European countries and the US to be much more so. I would say that if many people here don't have pride in their country, perhaps they don't feel there is much to be proud about. To say that we should 'show courage' is a judgement you make based upon your cultural experiences. My own view is that the divide-and-rule politics that have been so prevalent in Britain since the 1980s has led to this lack of respect and community but it's only my view. Rather than the big gestures, I just try to treat people nice - gave up trying to save the world a long time ago.

 

[yorksrob]

I think there's also a generational issue. Speaking as someone who swears like a trooper, I'm not particularly fussed about fruity language, unless its directed at someone in an aggressive fashion. My parents, on the other hand, who can happily sit through any amount of gruesome violence on 'Midsomer Murders' seem to have palpatations at the weakest swear word. I've never understood it myself.

 

[NSEFAN]

I think there's also a generational issue. Speaking as someone who swears like a trooper, I'm not particularly fussed about fruity language, unless its directed at someone in an aggressive fashion. My parents, on the other hand, who can happily sit through any amount of gruesome violence on 'Midsomer Murders' seem to have palpatations at the weakest swear word. I've never understood it myself.

There is an element of that. I am told by older colleagues that once upon a time you only ever swore in front of very, very good friends. And you absolutely never, ever swore in the presence of women. Not necessarily because they were seen as the weaker sex, it was just considered extremely rude. Perhaps America is still this way culturally inclined?

In reply to the OP, getting up and aggressively challenging loud drunks is likely to escalate the situation, especially given the lack of visible staff. At most you should politely ask them to tone it down, but if this doesn't work then just leave it. You punching them isn't likely to teach them anything, other than you're now fair game for a fight. I'm not sure about the American legal view, but in the eyes of British law it would be you who is seen to be starting it. I therefore ask in return that you learn to understand the pragmatic stoicism of the British, if nothing else to avoid you getting your nose broken!

 

[MisterT]

I've been to the States a few times, and observed the very same behaviour you described over there, with even one time an older gentleman who deemed it to be necessary to use the same kind of language at least three times in every sentence - and he wasn't even drunk.
It's nothing new, and you'll probably find it in all countries all over the world.

I agree with some of the previous posts. Violence is never a good way to respond to such things and you'll only create conflict and escalate the matter. When you feel threatened by their behaviour, call the BTP (or equivalent in the country you're in) and let them handle it.

 

[Kite159]

Why am I getting the image that the OP found themselves on a train with a group of either international rugby or football fans as that tends to be a common problem on Saturday night services when said fans drink too much and didn't get the result they wanted.

 

[yorkie]

Why am I getting the image that the OP found themselves on a train with a group of either international rugby or football fans as that tends to be a common problem on Saturday night services when said fans drink too much and didn't get the result they wanted.

The behaviour described can be observed in many places on a Saturday night, regardless of the existence of any particular sporting events.

It's true that sporting events (such as horse racing, to use an example applicable to my city) are likely to attract such people, however the absence of any such events doesn't deter them from getting drunk and behaving badly.

 

[Cowley]

Hi - I am American and I lived in the UK for over 5 years and I traveled the world and I can say without any doubt that the UK is one of the best places in the world to live and I am very fortunate to have lived there.

That said, taking the national rail like i did tonight (one of many times i have) often means having to sit there on the train for 45 minutes listening to really drunk people (not under privileged people, it’s usually well to do guys in their 20s) - use the most awful language around my wife and daughters and what is shocking is no one does anything about it. The c-word, the f-word - over and over again with no regard for people around them. I like to have a drink and fun too but the lack of class is out of control.

There are no national rail employees around to do anything about it and the people on the train either don’t have enough courage or the cultural / or moral concern to want to change it so they sit there and do nothing about it (including me tonight and I’m ashamed).

I am American and I think we share the same values as you. But where I come from - there would be 20 dads ready to punch you in the face for talking like that in front of women and children and families. There would also be a train conductor to do something about it. That is not a culture anyone should want or allow.

I can’t change your culture but I can pledge to you that the next time it happens I will not sit silently again , i will ask them politely to have some class and to please stop swearing like that, and if that doesn’t help I will punch them in the face.

I ask the rest of you to please show some courage, show some pride for your country and culture, and do something about it.

I do kind of agree with Mac7777 on some of this. I’ve stepped in and told people to stop shouting and swearing around people that are clearly feeling threatened by it on public transport before now. My opinion: What right have you to ruin another persons night out?

I’d suggest to other forum members to take a look at the time the original post was made. Perhaps joining a railway forum after a fairly hideous journey at 1am and venting his anger on here was the best thing to do in the circumstances, rather than punching someone on a train which obviously isn’t.

 

[yorksrob]

I do kind of agree with Mac7777 on some of this. I’ve stepped in and told people to stop shouting and swearing around people that are clearly feeling threatened by it on public transport before now. My opinion: What right have you to ruin another persons night out?

I’d suggest to other forum members to take a look at the time the original post was made. Perhaps joining a railway forum after a fairly hideous journey at 1am and venting his anger on here was the best thing to do in the circumstances, rather than punching someone on a train which obviously isn’t.

This is true. I've certainly found venting my frustration with the state of the railway, on this forum theraputic !

 

[StarCrossing]

The worst behaviour I've experienced on a train was on a service from South Bend to Chicago following a Notre Dame football game. There was a conductor who tried to stop it, but all she got for her efforts were a load of racist comments. The only good thing about the experience was that nobody started punching people.

Britain has some issues with drunken behaviour on trains, but so do other countries such as the USA. I can't say for certain what the solution should be, but I'm confident that it's not punching people - in most situations, this will only make things worse.

 

[404250]

Swearing isn't an offence. If you don't like it move to a different part of the train, or stand by the door if there are no seats left. I find people conducting work phone calls with all the business guff offensive but just put up with it. I'm sure your kids hear plenty of swear words in the playground, so they won't be damaged from a few train journeys witnessing drunk adults.

 

[yorkie]

Swearing isn't an offence.

Byelaw 6 states:

(1) No person shall use any threatening, abusive, obscene or off ensive lang uage on the railway
(2) No person shall behave in a disorderly, indecent or offensive manner on the railway.

If you don't like it move to a different part of the train, or stand by the door if there are no seats left.

I disagree. And on my train last night, the train was already full and standing so that wouldn't have been an option.

I find people conducting work phone calls with all the business guff offensive but just put up with it.

You are entitled to your own radically different views to the rest of us, but business calls would not actually be considered "offensive" in the eyes of the law or anyone else.

I'm sure your kids hear plenty of swear words in the playground, so they won't be damaged from a few train journeys witnessing drunk adults.

This is an absurd attitude to take and is the opposite conclusion to that which is sensible: kids learn from adults, so if they see adults behaving badly, they may think that it is normal or okay to behave like that. I urge you to seriously reconsider what you think is acceptable behaviour in such circumstances.

 

[fowler9]

Sorry but I totally disagree with the OP. If you think violence is an acceptable response to harsh language then the person who wants to resort to violence has the problem. Grow up and grow a pair. Sticks and stones etc. Would you rather your kid got swore at or got shot?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry but I totally disagree with the OP. If you think violence is an acceptable response to harsh language then the person who wants to resort to violence has the problem.

Bad language is not OK in the presence of children - but violence is even more unacceptable. It is however a typical US attitude to solve issues by violence or threat thereof. Fortunately, that is not how we work in the UK.

 

[fowler9]

Bad language is not OK in the presence of children - but violence is even more unacceptable. It is however a typical US attitude to solve issues by violence or threat thereof. Fortunately, that is not how we work in the UK.

Pretty much what I said, tell the OP. Ha ha.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Pretty much what I said, tell the OP. Ha ha.

I was agreeing with you

 

[fowler9]

I was agreeing with you

You want to take this outside? *roles up sleaves* Ha ha. Sorry mate. I am a physical coward.

 

[404250]

This is an absurd attitude to take and is the opposite conclusion to that which is sensible: kids learn from adults, so if they see adults behaving badly, they may think that it is normal or okay to behave like that. I urge you to seriously reconsider what you think is acceptable behaviour in such circumstances.

I think this really depends on the age of the children which I don't think we know. I wouldn't want young kids to listen to bad language for a whole journey, but i'd move them away from it rather than confronting the group. If I was travelling alone they may well provide a bit of entertainment.

You are entitled to your own radically different views to the rest of us, but business calls would not actually be considered "offensive" in the eyes of the law or anyone else.

OK, annoying not offensive. Not radically different view though - the main reason quiet carriages exist is to provide a space away from phone calls.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You want to take this outside? *roles up sleaves* Ha ha. Sorry mate. I am a physical coward.

 

[xotGD]

I'd rather be sworn at than shot at.

I'll stick with British culture over American culture, no problem.

 

[Darandio]

I can’t change your culture but I can pledge to you that the next time it happens I will not sit silently again , i will ask them politely to have some class and to please stop swearing like that, and if that doesn’t help I will punch them in the face.

Are you going back home any time soon? If so i'd like a favour if you could, you talk a good game. Every single golf tournament I watch that is held in the USA is ruined by a bunch of foul mouthed and intoxicated gob****es. If you could punch each one of them square in the face i'd appreciate it.

I wouldn't want to be on a train with the kids surrounded by a load of drunk clowns shouting out words they learned on the internet that week, it's not always like that and i'd like to think the vast majority are not like that. But to see an American citizen preaching about a bunch of British loudmouth intoxicated imbeciles, that really is something else.

 

[chorleyjeff]

I think there's also a generational issue. Speaking as someone who swears like a trooper, I'm not particularly fussed about fruity language, unless its directed at someone in an aggressive fashion. My parents, on the other hand, who can happily sit through any amount of gruesome violence on 'Midsomer Murders' seem to have palpatations at the weakest swear word. I've never understood it myself.

TV can be switched off. Midsomer Murders is make believe.
Swearing by an inconsiderate person near you can be seen as threatening. It also just debases the atmosphere around the swearer and shows lack of consideration for those who may be offended.
Possibly that is of no matter to you.
Why on earth swear like a trooper ? apologies to troopers.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Are you going back home any time soon? If so i'd like a favour if you could, you talk a good game. Every single golf tournament I watch that is held in the USA is ruined by a bunch of foul mouthed and intoxicated gob****es. If you could punch each one of them square in the face i'd appreciate it.

I wouldn't want to be on a train with the kids surrounded by a load of drunk clowns shouting out words they learned on the internet that week, it's not always like that and i'd like to think the vast majority are not like that. But to see an American citizen preaching about a bunch of British loudmouth intoxicated imbeciles, that really is something else.

Maybe " something else" but just switch off the TV.
The Americans I meet are nearly always polite and well meaning. But I do live close to a Mormon Temple full of quiet polite young Americans.

 

[yorksrob]

TV can be switched off. Midsomer Murders is make believe.
Swearing by an inconsiderate person near you can be seen as threatening. It also just debases the atmosphere around the swearer and shows lack of consideration for those who may be offended.
Possibly that is of no matter to you.
Why on earth swear like a trooper ? apologies to troopers.

Possibly it is of no matter to me. A group of people using expletives in jovial conversation is of no consequence to me. As I said earlier, if they are addressing that language at another person in an aggressive fashion, that is a different matter.

Somebody on my train now is playing annoying modern pop music at full volume. That ought to be an offence.

 

[FQ]

I can’t change your culture but I can pledge to you that the next time it happens I will not sit silently again , i will ask them politely to have some class and to please stop swearing like that, and if that doesn’t help I will punch them in the face.

OK, so you're upset that these people are using bad language around your daughters yet you're willing to punch these guys in front of your daughters, which is clearly the more severe thing. Do you want them to grow up thinking that the way to solving a problem with someone is to punch the person causing it, because that's what their dad does? If you did punch these guys you would be doing a criminal offence and would easily make yourself no better than them.
I've been on trains with loud drunks swearing at the top of their voice many times but have never told them to shut up as it's just asking for trouble. Suppose you did punch these guys and caused a massive fight on board. That could lead to many more problems, not only you getting removed from the train by the police. If it's particularly bad then, assuming there's one on board I may seek out the guard but it really is just the sort of thing you have to put up with if travelling on public transport. There's always the option to text 61016 if you feel like it may turn into something more but, while listening to constant swearing isn't pleasant, it's just words at the end of the day.

 

[fowler9]

TV can be switched off. Midsomer Murders is make believe.
Swearing by an inconsiderate person near you can be seen as threatening. It also just debases the atmosphere around the swearer and shows lack of consideration for those who may be offended.
Possibly that is of no matter to you.
Why on earth swear like a trooper ? apologies to troopers.

You can always just punch them in the face like the OP suggests.

 

[A Challenge]

Somebody on my train now is playing annoying modern pop music at full volume. That ought to be an offence.

I'm sure one of the byelaws covers it!