Journey gone wrong: help!

[crucible72]

Hi guys,

I would appreciate some advice regarding what's happened on my journey today (Sunday the 15th).
I am travelling from Aberdeen to Exeter. I bought an advance ticket for the full journey with a 16-25 railcard which booked me on the 12:24
Crosscountry service from Dundee to Exeter St Davids, and scheduled me
for the 11:05 from Aberdeen to Dundee. However, the 11:05 turned out to be
a rail replacement bus service which did not arrive in Dundee until around
13:30, too late for my connection. I looked on the departure board for the next service heading closer to my destination, which was the 13:43 to Glasgow Queen Street. I showed the train manager of this train my ticket before getting on and told him that I had missed my connection because of the delay and asked him if I could travel on his train instead; he gave me permission to do so.

However, after I got on the train and connected to the wi-fi provided, I checked the national rail journey planner, which seemed to say that if I travelled on this train then I wouldn't make it back to Exeter by the end of the day and would get stranded somwhere, and in order to avoid this, I would instead need to catch the 15:02 service to London Kings Cross and change there. In a panick I quickly got off the train destined to Glasgow, quickly removing all my luggage, as the train was about to depart. I thought I had everything but after the train had left I realised that I couldn't find my tickets and railcard, and that I must have left these on the train.

I bought a super off-peak single from Dundee to London terminals without a railcard discount from the ticket machine at Dundee which cost an extra £148.60, so that I could travel on the 15:02, which I am now doing, and was thinking of buying another ticket at London so that I can travel back on the 23:50 sleeper from Paddington to Exeter (I won't arrive into Kings Cross until 20:55, so I don't think I'll be able to catch an earlier train than this).

What I would like to know is:
Did I have to buy that extra ticket to London, or
could I have managed without it by explaining to the train managers what had happened?

Will I be able to get a refund on any of my tickets?

Is there any way of getting my lost ticket and railcard back (for evidence of my original booked train if nothing else)?

Will I need to buy another ticket to get from London to Exeter, and will it have to be without a railcard discount, or can I manage without one if I explain what's happened?

Is my ticket from "Dundee to London terminals" valid for travelling on the tube from Kings Cross to Paddington, or will I need to buy another ticket for this?

Was the national rail journey planner wrong as the 13:43 would have got to Glasgow at 15:09 and there appear to be trains going from Glasgow to London after this but still arriving in time for the sleeper to Exeter?

Will showing the email confimation for my original advance ticket, which I bought online, help me at all, or is this useless without the ticket itself?

Thanks very much for your help and apologies for the long post.

 

[yorkie]

There was no need to buy another ticket for a delay, though if you lost your ticket, then that's a different matter.

As for the evidence, did you book online? If so, it will be provided in the email and potentially in your online account.

 

[crucible72]

There was no need to buy another ticket for a delay, though if you lost your ticket, then that's a different matter.

As for the evidence, did you book online? If so, it will be provided in the email and potentially in your online account.

Yes, I booked the original ticket online and have an e-mail booking confirmation for it. Is this sufficient evidence?

 

[plymothian]

Technically, no. TOC employees cannot endorse travel on other TOC services except by control intervention.

A London Terminals ticket does NOT permit travel on TfL services between Kings X and Paddington as the validity ends at KX (the London Terminal you arrive at).

You will need a TfL ticket for travel between KX and Pad.

You will need a new ticket now between PAD and Exeter.

However can you get your ticket excessed onboard to a Dundee - Exeter Via London ticket, which WILL include tube transfer and might cost less than 3 separate tickets?

 

[yorkie]

Will I be able to get a refund on any of my tickets?

You may be able to claim compensation for the original ticket, if you either took a photo of it, or if you booked it online (preferably with the same train company you travelled with) and they accept the booking confirmation.

Is there any way of getting my lost ticket and railcard back (for evidence of my original booked train if nothing else)?

contact lost property

Will I need to buy another ticket to get from London to Exeter, and will it have to be without a railcard discount, or can I manage without one if I explain what's happened?

Unless you can buy a railcard in London, it will be without discount.

Is my ticket from "Dundee to London terminals" valid for travelling on the tube from Kings Cross to Paddington, or will I need to buy another ticket for this?

Use Oyster/Contactless if that's an option? If not, it's expensive to take the train. Do you have too much luggage to walk? You have nearly 3 hours to kill!

Was the national rail journey planner wrong as the 13:43 would have got to Glasgow at 15:09 and there appear to be trains going from Glasgow to London after this but still arriving in time for the sleeper to Exeter?

The rail replacement bus from Aberdeen was booked to connect with the 1320 to Edinburgh, which would have got you to Exeter St Davids at 2139.

Having missed that, the next train was the 1343 which should have still got you to Exeter avoiding London:

1343 Dundee - Glasgow Queen St 1509

1557 Glasgow C - Wolverhampton 1934

1941 Wolverhampton - Birmingham New St 1957

2012 Birmingham New St - Exeter St Davids 2245
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

However can you get your ticket excessed onboard to a Dundee - Exeter Via London ticket, which WILL include tube transfer and might cost less than 3 separate tickets?

In this case it's not cheaper, as GWR have a sensibly priced Super Off Peak Single that isn't £1 less than the return.

 

[plymothian]

ETA. I see you are already travelling on a Super Off Peak ticket; unfortunately for you the Super Off Peak Dundee - Exeter via London is LESS than splitting in London.

 

[crucible72]

Technically, no. TOC employees cannot endorse travel on other TOC services except by control intervention.

A London Terminals ticket does NOT permit travel on TfL services between Kings X and Paddington as the validity ends at KX (the London Terminal you arrive at).

You will need a TfL ticket for travel between KX and Pad.

You will need a new ticket now between PAD and Exeter.

However can you get your ticket excessed onboard to a Dundee - Exeter Via London ticket, which WILL include tube transfer and might cost less than 3 separate tickets?

Thanks but I don't think this will make me a saving. An off-peak ticket from Dundee to Exeter costs £225.10,
whereas London to Exeter is only £48.40.

 

[najaB]

crucible72, this is not intended as a criticism of you or your actions, but this saga does demonstrate the risk of doing on-the-fly journey re-planning rather than speaking with a train guard, I've ended up making some longer than necessary journeys that way.

I hope you get home okay.

 

[crucible72]

You may be able to claim compensation for the original ticket, if you either took a photo of it, or if you booked it online (preferably with the same train company you travelled with) and they accept the booking confirmation.

I did book online, but I was booked with Cross Country, and I am now travelling with Virgin. Should I contact Cross Country?

contact lost property

Would that be the Scotrail lost property department, as it was on one of their trains that I think I left the ticket?

Use Oyster/Contactless if that's an option? If not, it's expensive to take the train. Do you have too much luggage to walk? You have nearly 3 hours to kill!

I'll try using Oyster. I don't think I can walk that distance with the amount of
luggage I have.


Thanks very much for your help.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

crucible72, this is not intended as a criticism of you or your actions, but this saga does demonstrate the risk of doing on-the-fly journey re-planning rather than speaking with a train guard, I've ended up making some longer than necessary journeys that way.

I hope you get home okay.

You mean I should have spoken with the guard of the train to London and
he might have let me travel without buying another ticket?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Was the national rail journey planner wrong as the 13:43 would have got to Glasgow at 15:09 and there appear to be trains going from Glasgow to London after this but still arriving in time for the sleeper to Exeter?

Yes. There is a serious bug in the journey planner used by National Rail Enquiries, where it doesn't like to offer you a change in Wolverhampton when a change in Birmingham New Street would do - the problem being that if you change in Birmingham New Street you sometimes (as in this case) don't meet the minimum connection time there, thus it doesn't give you the itinerary at all. I can reproduce this for next Sunday, asking for a journey from Dundee to Exeter St Davids departing after 13:30, and it doesn't give me any options whereas they do exist when you use other journey planners; see here: http://www.fastjp.com/#journeys?orig=DEE&dest=EXD&odate=20170122&otime=1335&maxres=10&maxch=5 You should complain to NRE.

 

[najaB]

You mean I should have spoken with the guard of the train to London and he might have let me travel without buying another ticket?

Again, not intended to criticise: when I got to Dundee I would've gone to the ticket office and asked them what was the best train to get. They're a pretty good bunch and I've no doubt they would've put you right. Failing that, I would've asked the first guard you spoke with (on the Glasgow train) to look up the times of my connections. I've got caught trying to plan journeys in a hurry using my mobile before.

Anyway, water under the bridge now. As I like to say - in life there are successes and learning experiences.

 

[yorkie]

I did book online, but I was booked with Cross Country, and I am now travelling with Virgin. Should I contact Cross Country?

Yes. You were booked to travel from Aberdeen with XC and it was their train that was cancelled and replaced by a bus after you booked, so it's a straightforward claim with XC.

I'd claim Delay Repay based on your original ticket with XC.

Attach a screenshot of your booking confirmation. As you booked with them, and it was an Advance fare, they should pay it without quibble. Here's the form to attach the screenshot to: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/customer-service/contact-us/delay-repay

I suggest you do this ASAP.

Would that be the Scotrail lost property department, as it was on one of their trains that I think I left the ticket?

Yes as it was lost on a Scotrail train, this correspondence should be with Scotrail.

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-scotrail/contact-us/lost-property-and-luggage

Lost property

If you lose property at one of our stations or on our trains, you can call our lost property team on 0141 335 3276.
You can collect items left at stations and on trains from Glasgow Queen Street station - we sometimes charge a small fee for returning items to you. Unfortunately, we cannot send items to you in the post.

You mean I should have spoken with the guard of the train to London and
he might have let me travel without buying another ticket?

If you'd sought staff advice when the issue first became apparent, you still had your ticket at that point.

That said, NRE should provide accurate information and it is a very unfortunate set of circumstances, for which I am unsure if you can claim back the cost of the replacement tickets.

I would definitely complain to NRE about the bug in their journey planner though, but I am not convinced you'll get anything back. Trying to contact NRE is like talking to a brick wall, though at least by posting it here, there is a chance someone in a position to actually fix this bug may actually read it!

If you want to claim the Dundee to London fare (bought from Scotrail but for travel with VTEC) back, plus the London to Exeter (presumably about to be purchased from yet another company, GWR) back, it's going to be even more tricky as this introduces two more companies into the mix, neither of whom sold you the original ticket nor were meant to be conveying you originally, and neither of whom had anything to do with you making the decision to travel via a longer, more expensive, route.

Even if the original ticket is found, I don't think Scotrail can refund you as VTEC will rightly want their money for conveying you and had nothing to do with any of the saga.

It's a shame you didn't seek advice here earlier as we could have helped a lot earlier I am really sorry to hear this has happened but it seems to be a combination of many factors and by the time we became aware of it, we were unable to help you

 

[crucible72]

Thanks for your help guys. You're right I probably should have asked staff at Dundee what my best option was
when I arrived there, or posted on here sooner, I was just a bit concerned that I might have missed the next train by the
time I had done that; but it would certainly have been preferable to what has ultimately happened.
I've submitted a delay repay claim to XC using the e-mail booking confirmation and I'll try to contact Scotrail and
NRE too, to see if that gets me anywhere. I'll let you know if I have any success.
And thanks for the link to the alternative journey planner, Indigo2.

Am I right in thinking that the refund condition for advance tickets "However, if the train you purchased a ticket for
is cancelled or delayed and as a result you decide not to travel a refund will be offered on completely unused tickets
and you will not be charged an administration fee" doesn't apply for the original XC booking as I have still chosen
to travel?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm sorry it won't address your current predicament, but I have checked on RTT and you would have made the West Coast connectons if you had stayed on the 1343 Dundee-Glasgow today and caught the 1557 Glasgow-Euston via Birmingham.
You would have had 4 minutes at Wolverhampton (cross-platform), and 15 at Birmingham, to put you on the 2012 XC Birmingham-Exeter arr 2244.
It would probably have worked with just a single change at New St (6 minutes).
However, it's not always like that and it's always risky through the west midlands if you do are not familiar with the stations and stopping patterns.

Ironically, the Exeter train started as the 1348 from Glasgow and 1508 from Edinburgh, but to catch it in Scotland you needed the 1320 Dundee-Edinburgh.
It just shows how much faster the west coast route is to Birmingham and beyond.
Hope this helps for next time.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for your help guys. You're right I probably should have asked staff at Dundee what my best option was
when I arrived there, or posted on here sooner, I was just a bit concerned that I might have missed the next train by the
time I had done that; but it would certainly have been preferable to what has ultimately happened.
I've submitted a delay repay claim to XC using the e-mail booking confirmation and I'll try to contact Scotrail and
NRE too, to see if that gets me anywhere. I'll let you know if I have any success.
And thanks for the link to the alternative journey planner, Indigo2.

Am I right in thinking that the refund condition for advance tickets "However, if the train you purchased a ticket for
is cancelled or delayed and as a result you decide not to travel a refund will be offered on completely unused tickets
and you will not be charged an administration fee" doesn't apply for the original XC booking as I have still chosen
to travel?

It would have applied, so yes you could have got a refund. But you did use that ticket as far as Dundee.

Some people would - incorrectly - argue that you broke the terms of that ticket by "breaking" your journey at Dundee, though I would firmly argue you did not do so, as you did not leave railway premises (and will not do so until King's Cross, but that's only to make a necessary interchange so that doesn't constitute a break of journey either).

And thanks for the link to the alternative journey planner, Indigo2.

It's a useful site, and Indigo2 himself is one of the people responsible for it, and is the one I used to generate the itinerary earlier and use most often to plan my own journeys.

 

[6Gman]

I'll try using Oyster. I don't think I can walk that distance with the amount of
luggage I have.

Thanks very much for your help.

The 205 bus will take you from Kings Cross to Paddington. Personally I find cases easier on a bus than down and up the underground.

And if you've got Oyster I think it's only £1.50.

 

[yorkie]

...You would have had 4 minutes at Wolverhampton (cross-platform), and 15 at Birmingham, to put you on the 2012 XC Birmingham-Exeter arr 2244.
It would probably have worked with just a single change at New St (6 minutes).....

Agreed. To clarify, passengers should change at Wolverhampton and Birmingham. If the train is running a few minutes late, seek staff advice as to whether to remain on board to Birmingham or not.

Exiting at the optimum place (I'm unsure where that would be) would make it easier to make the connection (and make it easier to spot if the VT train had already departed, so you'd know to get back on the XC train!)

 

[najaB]

And if you've got Oyster I think it's only £1.50.

Same if you pay by Contactless too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...and was thinking of buying another ticket at London so that I can travel back on the 23:50 sleeper from Paddington to Exeter...

How are you getting on, at Paddington yet?

 

[crucible72]

Yeah, I've made it to Paddington, though the Oyster cost me 2.40 rather
than 1.50, maybe there's a discount I don't know about? I used the hammersmith and city line if that makes a difference.

I've got on the sleeper which is sitting in London.
I explained to the train manager that I had left my railcard behind on an
earlier train and he has allowed me to travel to Exeter on a railcard-discounted
ticket, so that is something at least. Hopefully I'll be back home soon.

 

[najaB]

Yeah, I've made it to Paddington, though the Oyster cost me 2.40 rather
than 1.50, maybe there's a discount I don't know about? I used the hammersmith and city line if that makes a difference.

Hopefully I'll be back home soon.

Indeed, safe travels.

£1.50 is the standard bus fare in London, we thought you might get the bus instead of the tube.

 

[Haywain]

I'm hoping that the remainder of your journey passed without incident. There are a couple of points I would make - first is that your unfortunate experience shows the benefit of (re-)checking your train times close to the date of travel, particularly when travelling on a Sunday. Second is that once you had lost your ticket, you were always going to have to buy tickets for your journeys, as no TOC is likely to pass you for travel without a ticket of any description. I really hope you get reunited with your original ticket (and railcard) as this will greatly improve your chances of getting compensation and, perhaps, a goodwill gesture regarding for further purchases.