Journey From Hell?

[ChrisTheRef]

Tomorrow, I'm up bright and early for the 0647 from Liverpool L St to Norwich.

Yes, I'm on an EMT 158 for nearly 6 hours.

Has anybody done this before? Is it really as bad as I think it'll be? Worse? Am I better off walking?

Answers on a postcard!

 

[Bittern]

I'd love to be on a 158 for 6 hours. Can't comment on EMTs though.

 

[jamesontheroad]

I've almost done it once... on a direct Cambridge - Liverpool service, many years ago when the 158s were still quite new, perhaps in the mid-nineties. I remember being amazed by the technology that provided a BT Phonecard telephone actually on the train...

I would reckon that you will have a more pleasant experience of it than I did. Almost all the EMT 158s have now been refurbished, and they're still one of the best long distance DMUs in service. The other big advantage is that you're travelling end-to-end. In more recent years I often used that service between Sheffield and Peterborough or Ely (both under CT and EMT) and despite always making reservations found it a real pain to board at Sheffield during the rush hour. I often had to stand... so at least you should be seated for the whole trip.

Happy travels!

 

[yorksrob]

I've not been on a 158 for six hours before but I did go from Cambridge to Nuneaton a few years ago and it was fine. Generally I quite like the 158's, but I know the Hope Valley line can get very crowded.

I suppose it depends on how crowded it is. If you're getting on at Lime Street you should be able to get a decent seat in which case take plenty of provisions.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If its a done-up (refurbed) 158 you should be OK, if its an old CT one, erm... could be worse, could be a 142...

Its scenic too, the Hope Valley, Peterborough-Norwich.

Good luck!!!!

 

[Green Lane]

I've done the whole journey from Liverpool Lime St to Norwich and then changing onto the Bittern Line, going to West Runton.

For me though, time just flies when I'm on the train, so six hours doesn't seem that long although of course it is a long time.

You should enjoy the scenery anyway!

 

[route:oxford]

Could be far worse...

I recall travelling from Glasgow to Oxford on a Summer Sunday around 1992 on what I can only assume was a MkII. The seat had "wings" at head height which meant (being 6'2" and broad shouldered) I was unable to sit upright for the whole 7 hours of the journey. It was the same for the return journey. From memory, I don't think we had air conditioning either.

Forum members are often nostalgic for lhcs, that same journey on a 158 would have been far more comfortable.

 

[ukrob]

Tomorrow, I'm up bright and early for the 0647 from Liverpool L St to Norwich.

Yes, I'm on an EMT 158 for nearly 6 hours.

You hope.

Not unknown for a 156 to cover it.

 

[Pumbaa]

Or for it to be caped

I'm a few hours behind you tomorrow, so I hope I don't see you still stuck at Lime Street. But it should be alright as long as you keep your seat. Get out anywhere near Manchester, and someone will nab it. You probably won't get it back till Peterborough!

 

[HITMAN]

They are nice the 158's, but I'm not sure it will be for 6 hours, why didn't you travel via London?

 

[ashworth]

The refurbished EMT 158's are quite comfortable. I've never done the whole route but I have done Nottingham-Liverpool and Nottingham-Norwich. It's a route that gets a bad name on these forums but I don't think its the actual 158 that is the problem its just the overcrowding.
I'd much rather travel long distances on a 158 than I would on a Voyager. I did a journey of approx 5 hours on a Northern 158 last summer from Carlisle to Blackpool (Sunday Dales Rail Service via Settle to Carlisle) and my back was in a much better state than it was after doing Preston to Edinburgh on a Voyager.

Take plenty of food and drink and stay in your seat during the busiest stretch between Manchester and Sheffield.

 

[transportphoto]

I'm on a EMT 158 now.

TBH

the seats are hardish and there are no power sockets so make sure you bring a load to do which does not require mains power!

The tables are of a reasonable size though!

TP

the views in this post are of own and my own only!

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Yeah, I hop on and off them all the time when I go to Manchester, it's just the agony of doing that 6 times!!

Bed time though, no doubt I'll be on here via mobile complaining tomorrow!

 

[Failed Unit]

I think 6 hours on any train can get tiring. No matter how much I enjoyed London to inverness on the hst. I preferred changing at edinburgh on my return to move my legs a bit more.

Done 6 hours on a 158 and there are worse units. At least you always get a window seat don't worry about getting a none refurbished one it is only the refurbished ones in service. The last of the none refurbished ones are at delta rail. Programme could be complete. Last time I did Liverpool to Peterborough it was a hot summer day and on a 156. Sort of glad as I don't know how good the air conn is on the 158s now.

As for the question why not travel vai London. To some direct trains are a must. If they were not then open access operators and xc may as well shut up shop now.

 

[northwichcat]

I've don both Manchester-Middlesbrough and Newcastle-Manchester on 158s with out changing. I certainly would not have preferred a Desiro for that length of journey.

The longest journey I've done on a EMT refurbed 158 is Stockport-Liverpool South Parkway. The most positive thing is that there's more leg room than with the original seating. With negative things there's less seats arranged around tables and the backs of the seats are a bit firmer than the originals - however, not as firm as a Desiro. I've heard the seats used are the same as on the refurbed FGW HSTs.

If I had to use either a EMT 158 between Liverpool and Norwich or a Wessex Trains 158s between Manchester and Milford Haven I certainly wouldn't opt for the latter. You'll just have to hope the 158 isn't substituted with a 156. I also don't think it's impossible for a 153 to turn up at Norwich then you get transferred to a 222 at Nottingham.

 

[GB]

Being a bank holiday, have you checked for any possible engineering works or bus replacement services for today?

 

[HITMAN]

As for the question why not travel vai London. To some direct trains are a must. If they were not then open access operators and xc may as well shut up shop now.

Well some open access might as well indeed, XC however provide a useful route because they do under cut traveling via London in terms of time for most journeys

 

[Failed Unit]

Well some open access might as well indeed, XC however provide a useful route because they do under cut traveling via London in terms of time for most journeys

The devil in me

Edinburgh - Penzance direct about 10:45
Edinburgh - Penzance via London typical 11:00 although it can be done quicker than a lot of direct services at 10:42 including 1 hour allowance to cross London.

Why do people travel to a specific route?
Price so in the above example via London will normally win.
Speed - Little to chose in this example really.
Times - Little to chose really but it is not much good having a direct train at 1300 when you want to leave at 0900.
Comfort - subjective for me via London will win.
Facalities - Catering, Power points, internet etc again via London will win.
Window Gazing / Track bashing - not much difference.
Not wanting to drag bags around London, which may be override above it has to be XC.

In the case of Norwich - Liverpool you may enjoy crossing the pennies, but the over-ridding reason a lot of people would take the 158 over via London even if it cost more is so they don't need to use the tube / get a taxi to cross London.

Looking at Southbound only typically if you went via London you would leave at Liverpool at 1048 arrive at Norwich at 1552, just over 5 hours. Yes you may get an earlier train out of Liverpool Street, but would you risk it? If you go direct you leave Liverpool at 1052 and arrive at Norwich 1613, taking about 20 minutes longer. Many people will consider that the tube journey isnt worth the 20 minute saving. At least on the direct train that if you get a delay you should get to Norwich (yes it could be capped) when changing you could soon be sat waiting for a long time, people don't like this! I know Liverpool St - Norwich is every 30 minutes, but going the other way and you could be waiting 1 hour in Euston or doing lots of changes as you head to Crewe etc.

 

[route:oxford]

The devil in me

Edinburgh - Penzance direct about 10:45
Edinburgh - Penzance via London typical 11:00 although it can be done quicker than a lot of direct services at 10:42 including 1 hour allowance to cross London.

11.08 XC Direct Service - 10h34m
12.52 Virgin Service, Change at Birmingham New Street to an XC service that started in Edinburgh at 12.05 - 9h52m

Going to be hard to beat the WC/XC route of 9h52m by travelling via London.

 

[transportphoto]

Well Chris is between Peterborough & Ely - due to arrive Norwich at 1213.

If Chris log's on then I will be probalbly behind the Barriers nearest to the plaform you arrive on.

FYI The train was running 6 late at Manchester P & OR but departed ontime at Peterborough.

I am still waiting for the bus at 12 - it should have been here at 1/4 to. Before anyone says, yes I am going by Bank Holiday times.

 

[northwichcat]

Just to add another thing about the EMT 158 refurb. A lot of people have been complaining about the aisle being narrower since the refurb. That might be the case but the aisle is wider than on any unit with 3+2 seating and I walked down one the other week with two bags and didn't have to walk sideways as a lot of people seem to have been implying that you need to do.

 

[transportphoto]

Unfortunatley I missed Chris due to the bus!

The unit was not substituted for a 156 - the only EMT unit sitting in Norwich Station was a 158.

Hope You enjoyed the trip

 

[Aictos]

I think the longest I've ever done on the same 158 as a return trip is Inverness to Wick via Georgemas Junction/Thurso - 4 and half hours there and 4 and half hours back, a total of 9 hours travelling on the same 158

Very far from being a journey from hell especially as the majority of the best scenary in Scotland is best seen by train.

As to journey from hell, being stuck on a failed 91 and Mk4 set with no power on a journey normally taking 30 minutes taking 3 hours!

 

[dk1]

Just back into Norwich having used the slightly late 14.40 Peterborough to Norwich (10.52 ex-Lime St). Class 158 was very clean, smooth as always, tickets checked twice & with approx 80 passengers not too busy. The refurbed units now having the old mail/trolley store removed have a much more open feel & extra space for the much luggage & cycles. Only pity is no catering but hey-ho i bought a coffee & sarnie in the Pumpkin on 4 & 5 before boarding. All in all a good journey of around 1.5hrs & would have been happy to have been on longer.

 

[merlodlliw]

I await chapter & Verse of the journey,my travels between W/X and CDF
are long enough on a 158, 3 hours.

 

[dk1]

I await chapter & Verse of the journey,my travels between W/X and CDF
are long enough on a 158, 3 hours.

Me too! It's going to be War & Peace

 

[HITMAN]

11.08 XC Direct Service - 10h34m
12.52 Virgin Service, Change at Birmingham New Street to an XC service that started in Edinburgh at 12.05 - 9h52m

Going to be hard to beat the WC/XC route of 9h52m by travelling via London.

Well yeah, its not designed for people wanting to take a route as long as that, its designed for people wanting to travel from the North East or the East Midlands to the South West and Cornwall, which it does well

 

[bse35]

Unfortunatley I missed Chris due to the bus!

The unit was not substituted for a 156 - the only EMT unit sitting in Norwich Station was a 158.

Hope You enjoyed the trip

I probably saw both of you then at Norwich as I was on that 158 Norwich - Ely

 

[NJTom]

The worst I have done was Holyhead to Pembroke dock on a 153. This was in the late 90s, and that service also covered many local stops, including the North Wales request stops.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Hi folks

The outbound journey was late until Stockport (followed a stopper from Warrington to Liverpool) but on time from there til Norwich.

On the way back, we were delayed at Peterborough for 20 mins due to a train fault and never really made the time up.

The return journey was fine as I managed to work throughout.

Outbound, my brain wasn't really in gear, and having just gotten out of bed, I hated it.

Hopefully if I go again, via London will be an option.

This time it was just too expensive.