Jointly operated train services in other countries.

[stadler]

Are there any examples of jointly operated train routes in any countries? I made that thread about jointly operated bus routes a few months ago so i am curious if anything similar exists with trains?

I am not talking about multiple train operators simply running along the same route or between the same points. I am not talking about where the operator changes at the international border or half way along the route. What i mean is a proper joint service where it is the same exact service and fully integrated with two or more different operators that each have their own journeys. For example in many Mainland European countries they give their Suburban or Regional services route numbers (eg RB1 or RE1 or S1 etc) and i am thinking of perhaps services like that being run by multiple operators.

I can only think of one example which is in Krakow in Poland on the suburban services. They have two services (SKA2 and SKA3) which are jointly operated. Koleje Malopolskie run the majority of journeys with Polregio also running a couple of journeys. But it is the same exact service and route number.

So i am looking for any other examples? Can anyone think of any other jointly operated routes where two or more operators both run journeys?

 

[Amalie]

In The Netherlands we have the Eurocity and Eurocity Direct trains that are jointly operated by NS and SNCB with a clear mix of Dutch and Belgian staff the entire way. The Amsterdam-Berlin IC does a staff changeover in Rheine, so it doesn’t really count, but from Amsterdam to Rheine there seems to be staff in DB uniforms that always seem to speak suspiciously amazing Dutch.

I can’t recall where it is, but I believe the Swiss and French have a joint regional service. I’m not sure if the TGV Lyria has actual Swiss staff on board.

 

[StephenHunter]

There are also sleeper services, like NJ 409, which has a Swiss loco pulling Czech, Austrian and Swiss carriages, with Newrest staffing the second lot. Running on German tracks for much of the journey.

https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?rok=2025&id=129221

Route
Zürich HB 19:59, Basel SBB 20:53-21:13, Freiburg (Brsg.) Hbf. 21:56-21:58, Karlsruhe Hbf. 23:05-23:07, Mannheim Hbf. 23:40-23:42, Frankfurt (Main) Süd 0:23-0:27, Erfurt Hbf. 2:44-2:46, Leipzig Hbf. 4:48-5:18, Halle (Saale) Hbf. 5:37-5:39, Berlin-Südkreuz 7:11, Berlin Hbf. 7:18

 

[superalbs]

Are there any examples of jointly operated train routes in any countries? I made that thread about jointly operated bus routes a few months ago so i am curious if anything similar exists with trains?

I am not talking about multiple train operators simply running along the same route or between the same points. I am not talking about where the operator changes at the international border or half way along the route. What i mean is a proper joint service where it is the same exact service and fully integrated with two or more different operators that each have their own journeys. For example in many Mainland European countries they give their Suburban or Regional services route numbers (eg RB1 or RE1 or S1 etc) and i am thinking of perhaps services like that being run by multiple operators.

I can only think of one example which is in Krakow in Poland on the suburban services. They have two services (SKA2 and SKA3) which are jointly operated. Koleje Malopolskie run the majority of journeys with Polregio also running a couple of journeys. But it is the same exact service and route number.

So i am looking for any other examples? Can anyone think of any other jointly operated routes where two or more operators both run journeys?

Which SKA2 and SKA3 services are operated by Polregio? I can't find any at a glance.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Enterprise service Dublin to Belfast jointly run by IÉ and NIR.

 

[stadler]

Which SKA2 and SKA3 services are operated by Polregio? I can't find any at a glance.

Polregio run a couple SKA2 and SKA3 journeys in the early mornings and late evenings and a few in the peak times.

You can download the PDF timetables here:

Rozkłady jazdy – Rozkłady kolejowe ➤ Koleje Małopolskie

Aktualne rozkłady jazdy pociągów Kolei Małopolskich z informacjami o trasach, godzinach odjazdów oraz obowiązujących połączeniach w regionie.

kolejemalopolskie.com.pl

Timetables – Rail Timetables ➤ Koleje Małopolskie

Current Koleje Małopolskie train timetables with information on routes, departure times and available connections in the region.

kolejemalopolskie.com.pl

If you look on the timetable it says "PR" and then "SKA2" or "SKA3" below it and those are the Polregio operated journeys.

Koleje Malopolskie do run the vast majority (about 90% at least) of journeys on these services.

 

[Bemined]

Would the Amsterdam - Zürich train fit? It is actually a combination of a sleeper train with OBB cars and intercity train with SBB cars, running under two different train numbers with tickets being sold separately as well but being pulled by the same locomotive.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

There are also sleeper services, like NJ 409, which has a Swiss loco pulling Czech, Austrian and Swiss carriages, with Newrest staffing the second lot. Running on German tracks for much of the journey.

Historically, international services in continental Europe were run that way, with locomotives changing at the border.

 

[dutchflyer]

Does this count: Gruss aus Deutschland-again.
VRR Verbund area/NRW Land: due to gigantic lack of staff at EuroBahn the RE13 from Venlo/NL to Düsseldorf-Wuppertal-Hamm is partly run by an antique hired other operator, Train Charters, that used some 50 yrs old refurbished ex DB Silberlinge. As was recently reported in the ´still surviving´ catch them before gone topic.
That same hired on also does/or did? as recent changes again, the peak hour extras on RE 19 by VIAS: DÜsseldorf-Emmerich (only VIAS runs on to Arnhem/NL again).
On the RE1 in Rheinland Pfalz- the sector Koblenz-Trier is normally done with coupled sets- 1 from DB, 1 doubledeck from CFL-split in Trier, the DB runs on to Saarbrucken and then another DB set will be coupled on to go to Mannheim- a rather roundabout route alltogether.

 

[superalbs]

Polregio run a couple SKA2 and SKA3 journeys in the early mornings and late evenings and a few in the peak times.

You can download the PDF timetables here:

Rozkłady jazdy – Rozkłady kolejowe ➤ Koleje Małopolskie

Aktualne rozkłady jazdy pociągów Kolei Małopolskich z informacjami o trasach, godzinach odjazdów oraz obowiązujących połączeniach w regionie.

kolejemalopolskie.com.pl

Timetables – Rail Timetables ➤ Koleje Małopolskie

Current Koleje Małopolskie train timetables with information on routes, departure times and available connections in the region.

kolejemalopolskie.com.pl

If you look on the timetable it says "PR" and then "SKA2" or "SKA3" below it and those are the Polregio operated journeys.

Koleje Malopolskie do run the vast majority (about 90% at least) of journeys on these services.

Interesting find, thank you.

 

[dutchflyer]

Historically, international services in continental Europe were run that way, with locomotives changing at the border.

Right-it seems this is about completely forgotten by many. Still kind of exists as such in Eastern EURope and the states that once formed that hammer&red sickle Soviet Union.
PLUS that quite often for internal sectors a local car or 2 would also be coupled on to cater for that traffic. And coupled off again at other end or before at convenient point.

 

[AdamWW]

Are there any examples of jointly operated train routes in any countries? I made that thread about jointly operated bus routes a few months ago so i am curious if anything similar exists with trains?

I think I know what you're asking for and I think such things will be rare.

Maybe services between Vienna and Budapest are sort of in the spirit of the thing - while they are all shown as being jointly operated by OeBB and MAV, the stock alternates between OeBB Railjets and MAV conventional loco hauled trains.

There are also the Bucharest airport trains - while I'm not sure they have a common route number there is a 40 minute regular headway service with some trains operated by CFR (the state operator) and others by Transferoviar Călători, a private operator.

Personally I find the way that trains can be made up of stock from more than one operator much more interesting, though becoming somewhat rare these days.

An example I enjoyed recently was the Dacia overnight train between Vienna and Bucharest which runs as far as Budapest coupled to a MAV intercity train, enabling one to have dinner in the dining car before it's removed at Budapest.

 

[eldomtom2]

Are there any examples of jointly operated train routes in any countries? I made that thread about jointly operated bus routes a few months ago so i am curious if anything similar exists with trains?

I am not talking about multiple train operators simply running along the same route or between the same points. I am not talking about where the operator changes at the international border or half way along the route. What i mean is a proper joint service where it is the same exact service and fully integrated with two or more different operators that each have their own journeys. For example in many Mainland European countries they give their Suburban or Regional services route numbers (eg RB1 or RE1 or S1 etc) and i am thinking of perhaps services like that being run by multiple operators.

I can only think of one example which is in Krakow in Poland on the suburban services. They have two services (SKA2 and SKA3) which are jointly operated. Koleje Malopolskie run the majority of journeys with Polregio also running a couple of journeys. But it is the same exact service and route number.

So i am looking for any other examples? Can anyone think of any other jointly operated routes where two or more operators both run journeys?

I'm a bit confused as to what you're asking for. Are you asking for cases where the same route is run by two operators where operator A's crews run operator A's rolling stock only along the entire route and vice versa? I can think of plenty of examples where operators jointly operate a route, sharing rolling stock but swapping crews at the "border", but it seems you're asking for something different.

 

[AdamWW]

I'm a bit confused as to what you're asking for. Are you asking for cases where the same route is run by two operators where operator A's crews run operator A's rolling stock only along the entire route and vice versa? I can think of plenty of examples where operators jointly operate a route, sharing rolling stock but swapping crews at the "border", but it seems you're asking for something different.

Yes I think that's it - the equivalent of a bus route shared between two operators, co-operating not competing, as used to happen often in the UK on services that ran between different council areas but is now very rare.

As you say it's common for trains to swap crews from one organisation to another which is unlikely for buses (but something I did come across a while back in the US on a coach service).

 

[Watershed]

There are also the Bucharest airport trains - while I'm not sure they have a common route number there is a 40 minute regular headway service with some trains operated by CFR (the state operator) and others by Transferoviar Călători, a private operator.

Yes, that came to mind straight away when I saw this thread. Generally just a point of curiosity but if you have FIP facilities, they're only valid on the CFR departures, not the TFC ones!

 

[AdamWW]

Yes, that came to mind straight away when I saw this thread. Generally just a point of curiosity but if you have FIP facilities, they're only valid on the CFR departures, not the TFC ones!

Same with Interrail?

I am curious as to how the route has ended up being operated like this. It's most unusual.

 

[MarcVD]

Ouigo train classique Paris - Brussels is jointly operated by SNCB and SNCF. SNCB stock only, because SNCF does not have anything suitable to operate it, but drivers and guards from both companies. And bookable from both companies too.

SNCB trains from Tournai and Courtrai to Lille are branded TER in France, so I suspect that they are a joint SNCB & SNCF operation too. Some of those trains used to be operated by SNCF Bimode units in the recent past, until ETCS became mandatory. French units don't have it, so now it's all AM96.

The local service from Liège to Maastricht is made of Arriva units with Belgian drivers and guards. It runs on SNCB safety certificate while in Belgium .

ICE services between Brussels Aachen, Köln, and Frankfurt is also a joint SNCB - DB operation. Belgian security certificate and partly Belgian drivers. Not sure for guards. Will be the same for the future Antwerpen Köln ICE service. It's SNCB who applied for the paths on the Belgian network.

 

[AlterEgo]

Amtrak's Maple Leaf is operated by VIA crews on the Canadian side.

 

[rvdborgt]

The local service from Liège to Maastricht is made of Arriva units with Belgian drivers and guards. It runs on SNCB safety certificate while in Belgium .

Between the border and Maastricht, it's an NS operation. From Maastricht to Aachen, it's Arriva.

ICE services between Brussels Aachen, Köln, and Frankfurt is also a joint SNCB - DB operation. Belgian security certificate and partly Belgian drivers. Not sure for guards. Will be the same for the future Antwerpen Köln ICE service. It's SNCB who applied for the paths on the Belgian network.

The guards are only from DB. Commercially, it's a DB operation: the tickets only mention DB as the carrier.

 

[The exile]

I’m sure I’ve come across a few where the odd workings of a route are either end of the day (or peak extras) are operated by a different company from the main service. Most likely in D or CZ but no idea where.

 

[signed]

Still kind of exists as such in Eastern EURope and the states that once formed that hammer&red sickle Soviet Union.

Still happens on western night trains as well, OBB Paris-Vienna changes loco at Mannheim (or Strasbourg) to/from the SNCF loco

 

[DanielB]

I’m sure I’ve come across a few where the odd workings of a route are either end of the day (or peak extras) are operated by a different company from the main service. Most likely in D or CZ but no idea where.

Not yet mentioned here, but how could I have forgotten this one... in the Netherlands the core half hourly service on the RS32 (Arnhem - Winterswijk) is operated by Arriva, but the peak extras (also named RS32) which increase the service to quarter-hourly are operated by Breng (a brand of Hermes and part of Transdev).
This situation is due to end in december 2025 however, as the peak services are being transferred from the Arnhem-Nijmegen franchise to the new Achterhoek-Rivierenland franchise. AFAIK the trains will also transfer from Transdev to Arriva. These are compatible already as the two current franchises had already required compatible rolling stock (though AFAIK it never happened that an Arriva GTW had to tow away a broken Transdev GTW or vice versa)

And actually there are three operators providing a joint service, as formerly Abellio and now Vias is sharing gatelines and checkin/-out poles with Arriva and Transdev as well. Occasionally Arriva staff are also checking tickets of passengers using an OV-chipcard between Arnhem and Emmerich.

 

[ShadowKnight]

RER B is operated by RATP in the central Paris section and by SNCF on the outer branches with a driver change at each operator boundary

 

[Taunton]

USA certainly used to have quite extensive long distance passenger services which were jointly run by two or even three companies end to end. The classic streamliners from Chicago to San Francisco for example had two different, competing routes, each of which needed three companies involved. The rolling stock was typically all in a common livery and build, but look closely and you would see different ownership plates, even within the same train. Some crew, and the locomotives, worked right through, others changed at the railway boundaries. One of the companies was generally in the lead for organising it all. On the C&NW-Union Pacific-Southern Pacific "City of San Francisco" the Union Pacific did overall organisation, while on the Burlington-Rio Grande-Western Pacific "California Zephyr" the Burlington called the shots. All this went when Amtrak came along.

Nowadays in the USA on freight it is common for locomotives to "run through", to a considerable extent, and it is normal to see locos from different companies in the same train. Careful note is taken of how many miles each runs, and from time to time locos will just be loaned from one company to another, to "work off mileage", to keep the accounting in balance.

 

[signed]

with a driver change at each operator boundary

They don't change drivers nowadays, either SNCF or RATP drivers do the whole run

It's on one branch of the western side of RER A where there is full driver change nowadays

 

[izvor]

I’m sure I’ve come across a few where the odd workings of a route are either end of the day (or peak extras) are operated by a different company from the main service. Most likely in D or CZ but no idea where.

Was it Děčín - Bad Schandau - Rumburk? When I used it some years ago it seemed to be mostly DB units with Czech crews, though the trains are all advertised as ČD, so unsure if this counts as "joint". Can someone clarify the arrangement here?

 

[popeter45]

would the Hamburg-Copenhagen EC's count as jointly operated?, from experience they use DB staff until padborg then DSB staff replace them the rest of the way

 

[rvdborgt]

would the Hamburg-Copenhagen EC's count as jointly operated?, from experience they use DB staff until padborg then DSB staff replace them the rest of the way

They're jointly operated: DB in Germany, DSB in Denmark.

Was it Děčín - Bad Schandau - Rumburk? When I used it some years ago it seemed to be mostly DB units with Czech crews, though the trains are all advertised as ČD, so unsure if this counts as "joint". Can someone clarify the arrangement here?

Jointly operated by ČD (in Czechia) and DB (in Germany).

 

[AdamWW]

would the Hamburg-Copenhagen EC's count as jointly operated?, from experience they use DB staff until padborg then DSB staff replace them the rest of the way

We could make a long list of jointly operated international services but I don't think is what the original poster was after.

 

[Birkonian]

Ouigo train classique Paris - Brussels is jointly operated by SNCB and SNCF. SNCB stock only, because SNCF does not have anything suitable to operate it, but drivers and guards from both companies. And bookable from both companies too.

SNCB trains from Tournai and Courtrai to Lille are branded TER in France, so I suspect that they are a joint SNCB & SNCF operation too. Some of those trains used to be operated by SNCF Bimode units in the recent past, until ETCS became mandatory. French units don't have it, so now it's all AM96.

The local service from Liège to Maastricht is made of Arriva units with Belgian drivers and guards. It runs on SNCB safety certificate while in Belgium .

ICE services between Brussels Aachen, Köln, and Frankfurt is also a joint SNCB - DB operation. Belgian security certificate and partly Belgian drivers. Not sure for guards. Will be the same for the future Antwerpen Köln ICE service. It's SNCB who applied for the paths on the Belgian network.

The service from Lille to Kortrijk is invariably operated by SNCB stock and staff. I was interested to find out that in the section of the journey within France, the 1st class carriage is declassified.