Joining the Railway as a Trainee or Apprentice Driver: What are you general concerns?

[Twotwo]

I’m not sure of all the specifics, but he wasn’t given a second chance, nor was he given additional training as far as I’m aware.

That is crazy, i feel for your friend. Think I know what toc it is as I have heard numerous stories of people failing and just seems more common there then elsewhere. Do know some guards that did the course and ultimately failed and returned to being a guard.

 

[wobman]

That is crazy, i feel for your friend. Think I know what toc it is as I have heard numerous stories of people failing and just seems more common there then elsewhere. Do know some guards that did the course and ultimately failed and returned to being a guard.

There's always two sides to a story

 

[iwasyoungonce]

Any union input with these situations

 

[seagull]

One concern not mentioned here is that of someone who successfully does the rules and theory side, and indeed the traction theory and depot stuff, but then has a complete meltdown once they get out on the sharp end and start actually driving the things. Pretty rare I imagine but I do know of it happening twice, once was, oddly enough, to a guard, who had been desperate for a driver's job for years, finally got it, passed all the courses with flying colours, but then just couldn't cope sitting in the seat at high speed. Told me that the feeling of helplessness and inability to avoid, for example, hitting birds and animals on the line, was a big part of it, caused him too much stress. He went back to being a guard.

 

[AverageJoe]

One concern not mentioned here is that of someone who successfully does the rules and theory side, and indeed the traction theory and depot stuff, but then has a complete meltdown once they get out on the sharp end and start actually driving the things. Pretty rare I imagine but I do know of it happening twice, once was, oddly enough, to a guard, who had been desperate for a driver's job for years, finally got it, passed all the courses with flying colours, but then just couldn't cope sitting in the seat at high speed. Told me that the feeling of helplessness and inability to avoid, for example, hitting birds and animals on the line, was a big part of it, caused him too much stress. He went back to being a guard.

I’ve hit a few birds and had a few near misses with fox’s and badgers. You feel cruel but can’t really slam the brakes on and injure passengers for it.

I killed a cat recently, that was sad because I love cats and I felt sorry for the owner who is probably still missing it.

Many out there have unfortunately have fatalities too, that’s a part of the job that I suppose you can’t prepare for but you need to be ready to accept it may happen.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Any union input with these situations

Once you're at your depot and paying your membership, absolutely.
If it's a case of just not taking in or retaining the knowledge during PTS or rules then unfortunately not.

It is rare for someone to be kicked off a course, but there's not normally much time for any slippage during that section though if the trainer's can help, they absolutely will.

With how the testing process is, they have a good idea whether an individual is suitable to the intensity of the training

 

[DNCharingX]

I’ve hit a few birds and had a few near misses with fox’s and badgers. You feel cruel but can’t really slam the brakes on and injure passengers for it.

I killed a cat recently, that was sad because I love cats and I felt sorry for the owner who is probably still missing it.

Many out there have unfortunately have fatalities too, that’s a part of the job that I suppose you can’t prepare for but you need to be ready to accept it may happen.

God that sounds terrible, some perspective there. Given how sorry I feel for this cat, I wouldn't cope if it was a human. Damn.

 

[lammergeier]

I’ve hit a few birds and had a few near misses with fox’s and badgers. You feel cruel but can’t really slam the brakes on and injure passengers for it.

I killed a cat recently, that was sad because I love cats and I felt sorry for the owner who is probably still missing it.

Many out there have unfortunately have fatalities too, that’s a part of the job that I suppose you can’t prepare for but you need to be ready to accept it may happen.

I do sometimes brake for birds, particularly birds of prey such as Buzzards or Kites which are often too cumbersome and slow to get out of your way, but with a few extra seconds they can manage it. They can cause serious damage and delays if they hit in the wrong place and take an air pipe off as well so it's perfectly justified to try and avoid it if possible.

Having said that I once had a delay report after braking for a barn owl, accidentally went into emergency at 100mph (easy done on a Voyager) and came to a grinding halt, had to wait 2 minutes for brake time out as well.

 

[wobman]

I’ve hit a few birds and had a few near misses with fox’s and badgers. You feel cruel but can’t really slam the brakes on and injure passengers for it.

I killed a cat recently, that was sad because I love cats and I felt sorry for the owner who is probably still missing it.

Many out there have unfortunately have fatalities too, that’s a part of the job that I suppose you can’t prepare for but you need to be ready to accept it may happen.

I hit pheasants on a daily basis aswell as pigeons, unfortunately we kill all kinds of wildlife.i once killed a poor dog, plus had a few near misses with humans.

That's just one element of being a train driver, being able to absorb and retain information is crucial. There's a lot of information to learn and remember in the classroom environment and then it's how that information is used in the real world of driving trains.

I've seen how some new trainees struggle, even though they may have thought the job looks easy. What makes someone a good police officer may not transfer across to being a good train driver, we all have strengths and weaknesses.

 

[AverageJoe]

I do sometimes brake for birds, particularly birds of prey such as Buzzards or Kites which are often too cumbersome and slow to get out of your way, but with a few extra seconds they can manage it. I once had a delay report after braking for a barn owl, accidentally went into emergency at 100mph (easy done on a Voyager) and came to a grinding halt, had to wait 2 minutes for brake time out as well. It was clearly the owl's lucky day as I missed it

bet there is some good stories on here of things like this.

I do try and slow if I have the time, you have that cringe moment and then when you don’t hear a thud it’s a relief.

 

[CFRAIL]

For me, having recently not met the required standard on my assessments, I'm now apprehensive about applying again given I've only got one more crack at it.

 

[ItchyRsole]

Bit of a daft question but when doing the important exams / assessments are the test papers multiple choice?

Silly I know but I always think with multiple choice the answer is actually there in front of you & you may just need to see it to clarify & confirm your answer.

 

[ALPAL]

My biggest concern would be leaving a very stable, well-paying career which has no chance of re-entry to potentially not finish the driver apprenticeship through an unfortunate act of God, something like a pandemic making apprentice drivers redundant or having a sick family member that requires you to take too much leave to make training effective. Like my current career, I get the impression it's a one shot job... you join once (if you're lucky) and stay (if you're lucky), if you leave you're never coming back kind of thing.

If you fail the train driver training is there ever any offer to remain at the TOC in a different role which you may be good at? Thinking along the line of trainee drivers from customer service backgrounds being offered trainee TM roles, or trainee drivers from engineering backgrounds being offered engineering roles etc.

 

[Terry844]

For me, having recently not met the required standard on my assessments, I'm now apprehensive about applying again given I've only got one more crack at it.

I would say if it’s a job you want to do then go for it. Look at it like the lottery, you can’t win it if your not in it! And you would only have to re sit the tests that you didn’t make the grade on.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Bit of a daft question but when doing the important exams / assessments are the test papers multiple choice?

Silly I know but I always think with multiple choice the answer is actually there in front of you & you may just need to see it to clarify & confirm your answer.

It's a bit of both, some questions you have to answer word for word, or a facsimile of as they are very specific railway terms i.e. signage, but a lot of it is multiple choice.

It can be relatively straightforward if you retain the knowledge well, but the amount you learn even in a week can be quite significant so you can still find questions difficult.

My biggest concern would be leaving a very stable, well-paying career which has no chance of re-entry to potentially not finish the driver apprenticeship through an unfortunate act of God, something like a pandemic making apprentice drivers redundant or having a sick family member that requires you to take too much leave to make training effective. Like my current career, I get the impression it's a one shot job... you join once (if you're lucky) and stay (if you're lucky), if you leave you're never coming back kind of thing.

If you fail the train driver training is there ever any offer to remain at the TOC in a different role which you may be good at? Thinking along the line of trainee drivers from customer service backgrounds being offered trainee TM roles, or trainee drivers from engineering backgrounds being offered engineering roles etc.

If you're off the streets (new to the railway) I would say it's unlikely you'll be offered a different role if you don pass training, however if you're changing roles within a TOC it has been done before where you go back to your old role if that is deemed a better fit

 

[wobman]

My biggest concern would be leaving a very stable, well-paying career which has no chance of re-entry to potentially not finish the driver apprenticeship through an unfortunate act of God, something like a pandemic making apprentice drivers redundant or having a sick family member that requires you to take too much leave to make training effective. Like my current career, I get the impression it's a one shot job... you join once (if you're lucky) and stay (if you're lucky), if you leave you're never coming back kind of thing.

If you fail the train driver training is there ever any offer to remain at the TOC in a different role which you may be good at? Thinking along the line of trainee drivers from customer service backgrounds being offered trainee TM roles, or trainee drivers from engineering backgrounds being offered engineering roles etc.

Everybody that takes the trainee driver role or apprenticeship takes a huge risk, less so for ex guards as they have a chance to stay in the industry at some tocs that allow them to return to the guards grade.

Nobody is guaranteed to pass the training, you have to pass the rules / traction exams. Then pass out driving by completing your hours and being competent driving, then you have your pass-out with a DM to then become8 a pqa driver. Even then your on probation for 2 years as a pqa driver before you become a fully qualified driver.

 

[AverageJoe]

Everybody that takes the trainee driver role or apprenticeship takes a huge risk, less so for ex guards as they have a chance to stay in the industry at some tocs that allow them to return to the guards grade.

Nobody is guaranteed to pass the training, you have to pass the rules / traction exams. Then pass out driving by completing your hours and being competent driving, then you have your pass-out with a DM to then become8 a pqa driver. Even then your on probation for 2 years as a pqa driver before you become a fully qualified driver.

Well thanks for scaring us all xD

 

[notadriver]

I knew someone who was a (car) driving instructor for many years. You would think perfect for the job as they teach driving their concentration skills would be tip top. Alas it wasn’t meant to be.

 

[wobman]

Well thanks for scaring us all xD

I left a secure job 20yrs ago and took a huge risk to train up as a driver, that's just the reality of things.
My training wage was only £15k so I took out a loan to cover my mortgage etc as I took a big pay drop for 12months, it's just the reality of leaving any job for a new job/career.

 

[AverageJoe]

I left a secure job 20yrs ago and took a huge risk to train up as a driver, that's just the reality of things.
My training wage was only £15k so I took out a loan to cover my mortgage etc as I took a big pay drop for 12months, it's just the reality of leaving any job for a new job/career.

I was more referring to the second paragraph. I’m only joking though, I understand the risk. I’m nervous about it myself.

 

[wobman]

I was more referring to the second paragraph. I’m only joking though, I understand the risk. I’m nervous about it myself.

The vast majority of trainees pass out and become good drivers, unfortunately a small minority don't achieve the required standards.
My advice is if your struggling at any stage of the training is to tell someone, chat to the other trainees and make a WhatsApp group.
They are probably struggling at various stages themselves usually in silence, plus the trainers want you to pass as do the DIs and DMs.

 

[Stigy]

Bit of a daft question but when doing the important exams / assessments are the test papers multiple choice?

Silly I know but I always think with multiple choice the answer is actually there in front of you & you may just need to see it to clarify & confirm your answer.

It varies from company to company. Pretty much the only multiple choice I recall was Personal Track Safety. I agree multiple choice tends to be a lot more straightforward, but most of the time they want to see your understanding in your own works.