John Lennon 40 years on

[C J Snarzell]

Tomorrow (Tuesday 8th) marks the 40th anniversary of John Lennon's murder in New York.

I was only a nipper in 1980 but Lennon's murder was global news and national mourning for one of the biggest music icons of the 20th Century.

Three of his songs went to number 1 in the first three months after his death along with a number 1 by Roxy Music which was a cover version of Jealous Guy. This just goes to show how much he was regarded by many at the time.

I've never been a huge Beatles fan and as a youngster I thought John Lennon was a little eccentric. However, in more recent years I've become to appreciate everything he said made sense in some way.

I do wonder how he would be perceived now if he was still around. He would definitely have been knighted and would have gone on to produce further records by adopt varying styles of music to accommodate each era.

I would love to have seen how he interacted with Simon Cowell and Pete Waterman who have been responsible for flooding the music industry with talentless disposable pop acts who disappear quicker than they arrive.

I even think that maybe Lennon may have become involved in politics even more and maybe become some sort of MP running a freedom party.

Interesting that Mark Chapman was given a 20 year life sentence, but since 2000 he has been turned down 11 times for parole. Maybe, the reasons are just as much for his safety rather than the safety of the public.

CJ

 

[birchesgreen]

He would have been similar to his peers, releasing albums in the 80s, 90s and 00s well received by fans and the specialist rock press but increasingly ignored by mainstream critics. Some interesting collaborations with artists from other genres, imagine a Lennon hip hop collab?! I suspect he might join the Travelling Wilburys or similar super groups. Who knows maybe that Fab 4 reunion may have finally happened?

I fear though that he would probably end up being a covid conspiracy theorist or anti-vaxxer right now and sour many people's memories.

 

[Bevan Price]

Sadly, we will never know. I very much doubt that he would have got involved with politics. Musically, he would probably have gone his own way, possibly collaborating with others sharing his own tastes in music, and maybe even working once or twice with his sons, Sean & Julian. I doubt that the Beatles would have got together as a full-time band, but there may have been occasional reunion concerts for short periods.

The Beatles were great, but probably getting "musically exhausted" after around 10 years working together, and it was time for each of them to "do their own thing" by 1969/1970.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

One wonders which pop groups shall be remembered in 250 years, like Ludwig van Beethoven is being remembered

 

[C J Snarzell]

One wonders which pop groups shall be remembered in 250 years, like Ludwig van Beethoven is being remembered

People like John Lennon, Elvis Presley, Jimmy Hendrix, David Bowie, Michael Jackson & George Michael are all musicians who are sadly no longer with us but will be remembered in their own ways for many years to come.

Many of the modern day talentless trash are simply forgettable & disposable. If a recent pop tune came on the radio now, I couldn't tell you who song it unless it's a distinctive voice like those of Sting or Bryan Ferry.

I remember the Manchester Arena bombing of 2017 - I still can't properly pronounce the name of the singer they were all watching. The morning after when it was all over the news - I thought they had all been to see some children's entertainer!!!

It just goes to show what a legacy John Lennon left behind if you still remember him all these years later.

CJ

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Ariana Grande, I could remember, dunno what she sounds like

The beatles were quite unpopular with certain establishment circles back then, I think their haircuts were problematic %)

 

[52290]

One wonders which pop groups shall be remembered in 250 years, like Ludwig van Beethoven is being remembered

I think it was Wilfred Mellers who said that Lennon was the greatest song writer since Schubert. Imagine or Winterreise?

 

[Geezertronic]

People like John Lennon, Elvis Presley, Jimmy Hendrix, David Bowie, Michael Jackson & George Michael are all musicians who are sadly no longer with us but will be remembered in their own ways for many years to come.

I'd like to add Freddie Mercury into that list - passed away in 1991 and still very much revered.

 

[43096]

I’ll put it here that the Beatles are one of the most over-rated bands of all time.

As a mate of mine put it “The Beatles’ finest contribution to popular culture was Ringo’s voiceover for Thomas the Tank Engine.”

 

[MotCO]

I’ll put it here that the Beatles are one of the most over-rated bands of all time.

As a mate of mine put it “The Beatles’ finest contribution to popular culture was Ringo’s voiceover for Thomas the Tank Engine.”

I'm completely of the opposite opinion. I thought that the Beatles were ground-breakers, more so than say Elvis or the Rolling Stones. They changed the style of music, in much the same way as Queen did. If you could plot the game-changers in music styles or genres, I would definitely put the Beatles and Queen in there; not sure who to put in for the romantic era of the 80's. The Beatles introduced a new style of pop music, and Queen introduced music videos as well as a wide variety of musical style and arrangements.

 

[DB]

I think it was Wilfred Mellers who said that Lennon was the greatest song writer since Schubert. Imagine or Winterreise?

Imagine is utterly trite. I've never been able to see why some people seem to regard it as a pinnacle of songwriting.

It's also notably hypocritical - 'Imagine no possessions", coming from a multi-millionaire...

 

[C J Snarzell]

Imagine is utterly trite. I've never been able to see why some people seem to regard it as a pinnacle of songwriting.

It's also notably hypocritical - 'Imagine no possessions", coming from a multi-millionaire...

I've never been a fan of Imagine either. Just a dreary depressing tune.

John Lennon took five years out of the limelight when his son Sean was born in 1975.

Lennon had only just completed the Double Fantasy album when he was murdered. Some critics hated the album but I actually think it had a fresh vibe to it - almost like Lennon had recharged his batteries and was about to have another run of new studio sessions which sadly never happened.

I can't see John Lennon doing what Paul McCartney did in collaborating with pop acts like Michael Jackson. Didn't Jackson upset McCartney in 1985 when he bought the rights to Apple Records?

CJ

 

[ComUtoR]

Whitney Houston
Madonna
Kylie Minogue
Celine Dion
Adele
Diana Ross
Tina Turner
Cher
Dolly Parton
Arethra Franklin
Shania Twain
Mariah Carey
Britney Spears
Christina Aguilera


Don't forget the ladies

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Is there some sort of foundation or society preserving his memory, documents and the like?

 

[C J Snarzell]

Whitney Houston
Madonna
Kylie Minogue
Celine Dion
Adele
Diana Ross
Tina Turner
Cher
Dolly Parton
Arethra Franklin
Shania Twain
Mariah Carey
Britney Spears
Christina Aguilera


Don't forget the ladies

I'll have it mate - ladies in music have certainly come a long way.

I'd put Diana Ross, Tina Turner & Aretha Franklin at the top of the list because of their humble backgrounds and the fact they have broken down barriers with race & gender in the music industry in the 60s & 70s.

I would not have Aguilera, Spears or Adele in the same list as the others though - they are probably in the same league as the Spice Girls!!!

CJ

 

[Bevan Price]

I think that to be remembered for decades, or centuries, a musician needs to have made a major change in direction from current cultural trends & fashions. Others may be very talented, but just adapted musical styles that already existed.
Until the mid-1950s, "popular" music was largely derived from jazz, big band music and "boy fancies girl" (oy vice versa) ballads. There was talent, but by the mid-1950s, it was largely stale and unoriginal.

Then came rock, of which Elvis Presley is one of the few who will be remembered. Cliff Richard followed, initially trying to sound like a Elvis clone, and whilst talented, I feel he is unlikely to go down in history as a major musical influence.

After Elvis came the rock bands, often influenced by blues music, of which the Beatles and Rolling Stones were first to be really successful, and most likely to be remembered. I would also add Bob Dylan, who combined rock with folk music and also wrote anti-establishment protest songs.
Since then, rock music has seen little that I can describe as spectacularly new.
(Name your own favourites here). The Who, Kinks, Deep Purple, Oasis, Nirvana, etc. - undoubtedly talented - but their sounds mostly evolved from what others had done previously.

UK Punk of the 1970s was largely an unearthing of the US "garage band" sounds of the 1960s, made by a myriad of groups trying to be "the next Beatles or Stones".
Psychedelic rock was largely inspired by "Sergeant Pepper", and then evolved into progressive rock.
Heavy rock / metal was mostly a transition from the heavy sounds produced by Dave Davies of The Kinks.

Soul, disco, reggae and rap all had brief periods of high success - but since then - what totally new sounds have emerged? Not much -- almost everything is largely a derivative or evolvement from what has gone before.
Kylie, Adele, Robbie, etc. -- talent - yes, but original and trend-setting ? Not really. And some musicians even prefer to "pinch" (sample) other peoples' music to creating their own original sounds

So, I repeat. John Lennon with The Beatles - got there first, did it well for a few years, and will be remembered for the longest time.

 

[43096]

Soul, disco, reggae and rap all had brief periods of high success - but since then - what totally new sounds have emerged? Not much -- almost everything is largely a derivative or evolvement from what has gone before.

I'd suggest a band like Kraftwerk could lay claim to being original.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I'd suggest a band like Kraftwerk could lay claim to being original.

Kraftwerk are like one of those bands that I hated as a kid. However, there is something very unique and appealing about listening to them all these years later.

CJ

 

[LOL The Irony]

I'd like to put forwards Shirley Bassey, Frank Sinatra, Rick Astley & Avicii for those who will be remembered in years to come.

 

[birchesgreen]

I thought this thread was about John Lennon?

I agree with Imagine being a bit overrated, now Across the universe...

 

[ComUtoR]

I'll have it mate - ladies in music have certainly come a long way.

A long way from where exactly. Women have been singing for years. Does Doris Day ring a bell ?

I'd put Diana Ross, Tina Turner & Aretha Franklin at the top of the list because of their humble backgrounds and the fact they have broken down barriers with race & gender in the music industry in the 60s & 70s.

Which I think is a huge problem. Why should they be recognised because of their backgrounds or contribution and not recognised based on their sheer musical talent ? Aretha Franklin is a freaking legend ! Her voice is iconic. I know very little about her other than holy christ can she sing.

I would not have Aguilera, Spears or Adele in the same list as the others though - they are probably in the same league as the Spice Girls!!!

This kinda comment always upsets me. Like em or hate em' you have to respect them. Their contribution to music may not be to your taste but they have influenced a generation and especially a generation of young, independent, powerful females of all ages. Again, their talent is incredible and should be lauded. The power in Christinas voice would blow Lennon away.

The elephant in the room is clear to see. Its pop music (as in POPULAR). They are ALL of their generation. My kids have very little idea who the Beetles were and would struggle to name any of them let alone pick out John Lennon as someone iconic or otherwise. I have no doubt that people were saying the same about Lennon in his day and will continue to dennigrate any "modern music" If you look at the artists in your list they all have a common theme. They all broke the mold and brought something new to the industry.

Bands like the Beetles have the benefit of time. We do look back and see how their music fared and what their impact was. Modern bands don't have that luxury as yet. In 20yrs time will we be listening to Britney? I have no idea but hit me baby one more time is already 22yrs old and I challenge many of us not to sing along when you hear it.

With music, we often forget the people behind the bands and behind the artists. Where would Michael Jackson be without Quincy Jones or Teddy Riley ? Where is Elvis without Colonel Tom ?

 

[Bevan Price]

A long way from where exactly. Women have been singing for years. Does Doris Day ring a bell ?



Which I think is a huge problem. Why should they be recognised because of their backgrounds or contribution and not recognised based on their sheer musical talent ? Aretha Franklin is a freaking legend ! Her voice is iconic. I know very little about her other than holy christ can she sing.




This kinda comment always upsets me. Like em or hate em' you have to respect them. Their contribution to music may not be to your taste but they have influenced a generation and especially a generation of young, independent, powerful females of all ages. Again, their talent is incredible and should be lauded. The power in Christinas voice would blow Lennon away.

The elephant in the room is clear to see. Its pop music (as in POPULAR). They are ALL of their generation. My kids have very little idea who the Beetles were and would struggle to name any of them let alone pick out John Lennon as someone iconic or otherwise. I have no doubt that people were saying the same about Lennon in his day and will continue to dennigrate any "modern music" If you look at the artists in your list they all have a common theme. They all broke the mold and brought something new to the industry.

Bands like the Beetles have the benefit of time. We do look back and see how their music fared and what their impact was. Modern bands don't have that luxury as yet. In 20yrs time will we be listening to Britney? I have no idea but hit me baby one more time is already 22yrs old and I challenge many of us not to sing along when you hear it.

With music, we often forget the people behind the bands and behind the artists. Where would Michael Jackson be without Quincy Jones or Teddy Riley ? Where is Elvis without Colonel Tom ?

Elvis without Colonel Tom ? A lot happier, a lot richer, and possibly he would have lived a lot longer.

As commented previously, we all have favourites from our era, and many of them are talented -- but musically, how many are much little different from what has gone before? They all had their equivalents 50+ years ago, e.g. Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Matt Monro, Bobby Vee, Del Shannon, Rick Nelson, Everly Brothers, Tommy Steele, Dusty Springfield, etc. -- all very talented in their eras, but, in another 50 years, how many will still be remembered as helping to change the course of musical history?

Another factor to be remembered is Pirate Radio - Radios Caroline & London in particular, who in the early years, largely played what the DJs wanted, rather than what the record companies plugged (or paid) the few popular radio stations to play. For a few brief years, that enabled new / original musical acts to get publicity that was rarely supplied adequately by much of the music industry.

 

[Class465pacer]

People like John Lennon, Elvis Presley, Jimmy Hendrix, David Bowie, Michael Jackson & George Michael are all musicians who are sadly no longer with us but will be remembered in their own ways for many years to come.

Many of the modern day talentless trash are simply forgettable & disposable. If a recent pop tune came on the radio now, I couldn't tell you who song it unless it's a distinctive voice like those of Sting or Bryan Ferry.

I remember the Manchester Arena bombing of 2017 - I still can't properly pronounce the name of the singer they were all watching. The morning after when it was all over the news - I thought they had all been to see some children's entertainer!!!

It just goes to show what a legacy John Lennon left behind if you still remember him all these years later.

CJ

I’m sure people born in the 20s-50s would say the same of those 60s-80s artists you mentioned. Of course artists from now will be remembered in 30 years time, partly because of the nostalgia from people currently listening to them.

 

[birchesgreen]

People like John Lennon, Elvis Presley, Jimmy Hendrix, David Bowie, Michael Jackson & George Michael are all musicians who are sadly no longer with us but will be remembered in their own ways for many years to come.

Many of the modern day talentless trash are simply forgettable & disposable. If a recent pop tune came on the radio now, I couldn't tell you who song it unless it's a distinctive voice like those of Sting or Bryan Ferry.

I suspect if this forum and thread was around in the early 1960s you'd have people calling the Beatles forgettable and disposable and nothing like the good old stars of the past who will be remembered forever like Navarre and Pat Hyde.

 

[DarloRich]

Independence Day 1996. Julius Levinson: All you need is love, John Lennon, smart man, shot in the back very sad.