• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Joe Duddington

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mallard4468

Member
Joined
23 Feb 2025
Messages
11
Location
Doncaster
Does anyone have any information about Joe duddington

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I am interested to know how many people are aware of the name Joe Duddington and what it means to them
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Spamcan81

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2011
Messages
1,265
Location
Bedfordshire
Joe Duddington was the driver who took Mallard to the world steam speed record on July 3rd 1968. Not forgetting fireman Tommy Bray and Inspector Jenkins who were on the footplate at the time.
 

Mallard4468

Member
Joined
23 Feb 2025
Messages
11
Location
Doncaster
Thank you, as I am new to this forum, I was trying to get a feel for how well known Joe is and how people felt about his impact in steam history

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

And I would never diminish Tommy Brays part in the making of history
 

High Dyke

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2013
Messages
5,023
Location
Yellabelly Country
With such a turnover of staff on the various railway companies these days, there will be a number who won't have a clue about Joe, Tommy or anyone else involved on the day. Sadly.
 

Spamcan81

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2011
Messages
1,265
Location
Bedfordshire
Thank you, as I am new to this forum, I was trying to get a feel for how well known Joe is and how people felt about his impact in steam history

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

And I would never diminish Tommy Brays part in the making of history
I think it’s a shame that the commemorative plaque on Mallard doesn’t mention the crew.
 

Mallard4468

Member
Joined
23 Feb 2025
Messages
11
Location
Doncaster
I fully agree. And they have never been commemorated for their part in world history. Like I say, I have reason to find out
 

Mallard4468

Member
Joined
23 Feb 2025
Messages
11
Location
Doncaster
That’s correct and quite rightly so. I know that element really well and was getting a feel for views about Joe

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Or even views on how important Mallard is to the railway fellowship
 
Last edited:

Harvester

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2020
Messages
1,788
Location
Notts
Fireman Tommy Bray must take a lot of the credit that Sunday. A temporary speed restriction meant the train went through Grantham at only 24 mph, hence it was worked hard up Stoke bank with a full regulator to reach the desired 75 mph at the summit. It required a huge back breaking firing effort to accomplish this and keeping the boiler pressure high, for the final downhill push.
 

Spamcan81

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2011
Messages
1,265
Location
Bedfordshire
Fireman Tommy Bray must take a lot of the credit that Sunday. A temporary speed restriction meant the train went through Grantham at only 24 mph, hence it was worked hard up Stoke bank with a full regulator to reach the desired 75 mph at the summit. It required a huge back breaking firing effort to accomplish this and keeping the boiler pressure high, for the final downhill push.
I’m sure I read that Inspector Jenkins also lent a hand firing.
 

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,377
Wasn’t there a BBC documentary made in the 80s commemorating 50th anniversary of the run (hopefully on I player or you tube) which includes a voice recording of the driver describing how he broke the record.

From memory I recall hearing that very clearly.

I think I once had a video of the program.

Edit: 'Mallard: A Drake's Progress' - Anglia TV made c1990, written and presented by John Huntley - copies on youtube (see my post with link below)
 
Last edited:

eastdyke

Established Member
Joined
25 Jan 2010
Messages
2,058
Location
East Midlands
I’m sure I read that Inspector Jenkins also lent a hand firing.
It was recorded in this piece published in Lincolnshire Life [July 2013]:

Extract:
The train left from Wood Green waterworks sidings on its outward journey. It went as far as Barkston and turned on the triangle there. Packed lunches were eaten at the siding in Barkston and at this point Jenkins and Bray made the fire up – right to the doors of the firebox, paying particular attention to build up the corners of the firebox, difficult to reach underway, and especially if firing not through the open door, but ‘over the flap’ as was normal practice at the time.
 

778

Member
Joined
4 May 2020
Messages
700
Location
Hemel Hempstead
Fireman Tommy Bray must take a lot of the credit that Sunday. A temporary speed restriction meant the train went through Grantham at only 24 mph, hence it was worked hard up Stoke bank with a full regulator to reach the desired 75 mph at the summit. It required a huge back breaking firing effort to accomplish this and keeping the boiler pressure high, for the final downhill push.
If the 24mph speed restriction was not in place could Mallard have gone faster than 126mph? The article mentions that the record was broken at 116mph, but I thought that a German Loco managed 124.5mph 3 years earlier?
 
Last edited:

Mallard4468

Member
Joined
23 Feb 2025
Messages
11
Location
Doncaster
Thank you for the comments and really interesting to see that the record is talked about and what Mallard achieved. My Great Grandfather, Joe, was chosen because Sir Nigel knew he was the one with experience and ability to nurse “the old girl” to take the world record. I am very proud of him and of course Tommy to do what they did and put Mallard into British history
 

Harvester

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2020
Messages
1,788
Location
Notts
If the 24mph speed restriction was not in place could Mallard have gone faster than 126mph? The article mentions that the record was broken at 116mph, but I thought that a German Loco managed 124.5mph 3 years earlier?
The reference would have been to the LMS record of 114 mph held by Coronation 6220. It is quite interesting to compare the run with that of 60007 on 23/5/1959 on a Stephenson Locomotive Society special. Bill Hoole had past Grantham at 75 mph on the latter, which he held to Stoke summit without having to thrash the engine. Mallard passed the summit at 74.5 mph (not 85 mph) and both were doing just over a 100mph at Corby Glen with 60007 running the better at this stage with plenty in hand. At 112 mph a few miles further on, Bill was told to ease off by the inspectors on the footplate, when speed passed the prearranged 110 mph.
 

Spamcan81

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2011
Messages
1,265
Location
Bedfordshire
The reference would have been to the LMS record of 114 mph held by Coronation 6220. It is quite interesting to compare the run with that of 60007 on 23/5/1959 on a Stephenson Locomotive Society special. Bill Hoole had past Grantham at 75 mph on the latter, which he held to Stoke summit without having to thrash the engine. Mallard passed the summit at 74.5 mph (not 85 mph) and both were doing just over a 100mph at Corby Glen with 60007 running the better at this stage with plenty in hand. At 112 mph a few miles further on, Bill was told to ease off by the inspectors on the footplate, when speed passed the prearranged 110 mph.
Bill was convinced that he could have had the record that day had he been allowed to go for it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Thank you for the comments and really interesting to see that the record is talked about and what Mallard achieved. My Great Grandfather, Joe, was chosen because Sir Nigel knew he was the one with experience and ability to nurse “the old girl” to take the world record. I am very proud of him and of course Tommy to do what they did and put Mallard into British history
And quite rightly proud of him. Took a lot of nerve to take the loco into uncharted territory.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
32,949
Location
Fenny Stratford
“Once over the top I gave Mallard ‘er ‘ead and she jumped to it like a live thing. Then 108, 109, 110. ‘Go on old girl,’ I thought, ‘we can do better than this.’ So I nursed her and we shot through Little Bytham at 123 and in the next mile and a quarter the needle crept up further… 124, 125 and then for a quarter of a mile, why, they tell me the folks in the car held their breath, 126! 126? That was the fastest a steam locomotive had ever been driven in the world!”
 

norbitonflyer

Established Member
Joined
24 Mar 2020
Messages
5,839
Location
SW London
What would Joe have thought of the fact that within 40 years trains would routinely be doing 125mph - up Stoke Bank!
 

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,377
As do I. Sounded very unassuming but surprisingly posh!
I recall a northern accent. I’d like to find the programme details. Not managed that yet EDIT - now located - see below in thread

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

That’s the transcript of the recording I recall I’m pretty sure. Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Sun Chariot

Established Member
Joined
16 Mar 2009
Messages
6,743
Location
2 miles and 50 years away from the Longmoor Milita
Hello @Mallard4468
Many thanks for sharing your family tie to Joe Duddington.
This page on LNER.info gives a brief story of his deserved place in UK railway history:
I've attached the pertinent info, as the web page covers the A4 locos in more general terms too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Joe Duddington was the driver who took Mallard to the world steam speed record on July 3rd 1968.
Was that a secret and highly unofficial run, one month before British Railways' "Fifteen Guinea Special" steam finale? ;) :D
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20250224_144737_Chrome~3.jpg
    Screenshot_20250224_144737_Chrome~3.jpg
    446.5 KB · Views: 37
  • Screenshot_20250224_144753_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20250224_144753_Chrome.jpg
    378.9 KB · Views: 36
Last edited:

norbitonflyer

Established Member
Joined
24 Mar 2020
Messages
5,839
Location
SW London
Or even views on how important Mallard is to the railway fellowship
Indeed - the public for some reason find 4472 far more of a draw than 4468, or indeed any other steam locomotive, but it was nothing special.
  • Not the first Pacific in the UK (The GWR's Great Bear was, and the North Eastern Railway was building a small feelt at the same time as the GNR)t in
  • Not even the first of its class (that was 4470), of a class that eventually numbered 79
  • One of several (and not the first) to make an unsubstantiated claim to be the first to reach 100mph. ("City of Truro" wants a word)
  • Not the most powerful locomotive of its time (when exhibited at the British Empire Exhibition in 1924, it was shown up by Caerphilly Castle (GWR 4073) which, although smaller, could boast a bigger tractive effort).
Its main distinction was as the first privately-owned preserved main line steam locomotive on BR and, thanks to a unique deal between Alan Pegler and British Railways, for several years the only one permitted on BR track. It never ran in LNER service in the condition Pegler kept it, as an A3 No 4472 in pre-war LNER livery - it was not converted to A3 specification until 1947, by which time it had been renumbered 103. (It is sometimes, and more authentically, exhibited as BR No 60103, but this is less popular with the masses)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Was that a secret and highly unofficial run, one month before British Railways' "Fifteen Guinea Special" steam finale? ;) :D
... and 15 years after he passed away.
 

E27007

Member
Joined
25 May 2018
Messages
1,044
Does anyone have any information about Joe duddington

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I am interested to know how many people are aware of the name Joe Duddington and what it means to them
Jo was a celebrity, on his last day at Carr loco, British Pathe sent a film crew, and Mallard was his loco:
here is the link:

Jo Duddington British Pathe

Jo died 1953, but not in Doncaster, a fact which required plenty of detective work to establish his final resting place.
His death was reported far and wide of the British Empire, including Australia.

I carried out the research which revealed, Jo was buried in an unmarked grave of his first wife Mary Alice d 1921, at Doncaster Hyde Park Cemetery.
The Friends of Hyde Park Cemetery raised funds for the grave to be restored and a headstone erected.

Tommy Bray died in 1966, he was cremated and his ashes interred at Rose Hill Cemetery Doncaster
 
Last edited:

Mallard4468

Member
Joined
23 Feb 2025
Messages
11
Location
Doncaster
This is fantastic information you are all kindly submitting and thank you very much. It is very interesting to hear of his death being reported elsewhere in the world. To my knowledge, my Great Grandfather passed away of a heart attack in his beloved fish and chip shop ( which is still that today ) in Dunscroft, Doncaster. I would be keen to see what reports of his death exist as I am only aware of limited information of this fact.
 

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,377
This is fantastic information you are all kindly submitting and thank you very much. It is very interesting to hear of his death being reported elsewhere in the world. To my knowledge, my Great Grandfather passed away of a heart attack in his beloved fish and chip shop ( which is still that today ) in Dunscroft, Doncaster. I would be keen to see what reports of his death exist as I am only aware of limited information of this fact.
I would have thought it would have been reported in the railway press if not wider press too.

Some forum members have access to online newspaper archives and thus may be able to search them.
 

Mallard4468

Member
Joined
23 Feb 2025
Messages
11
Location
Doncaster
I actually fronted the campaign for a headstone for my Great Grandfather and am still researching more about the World Record so I thank everyone for adding to my family history and the achievements of a pre-war record breaker
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top