JMB Travel

[Ethan CowanJMB]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Mar 2026 ==

Well I would be worried if I owned jmb as I’ve heard first are thinking about going to do the X1 again.

Where did you hear that?

 

[Metal Mickey]

Aside from the fact that it's the Competition and Markets Authority, they won't be. First are saying, and will say, that this is a bold network revision to create new links and unless they do something ultra predatory e.g. fares reduced below cost, then it is difficult to say for the CMA to say that this isn't just simple competition

My apologies, I’m forgetting it’s the Competition and Market’s Authority.

I do however believe JMB may have cause to refer First to the CMA as one of the owners of the business mentioned in the local media that First now in competition against 80% of their commercial mileage.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

My apologies, I’m forgetting it’s the Competition and Market’s Authority.

I do however believe JMB may have cause to refer First to the CMA as one of the owners of the business mentioned in the local media that First now in competition against 80% of their commercial mileage.

However, that’s competition so they’re allowed to do that.

If they were to slash fares below cost, or had a bus every two mins, that could then be considered predatory.

The current situation is very unsatisfactory but is it predatory in that respect? I’d reckon not. That said, I think First might regret it in a Plymouth style

 

[overthewater]

Its borderline predatory, the fact first is running the 211 via Calderbank and not Chaplehall proves without a doubt, this isn't about creating a bold new network and more about getting back at JMB. It should be noted First has give the people of Bellshill and Viewpark a fast bus to Glasgow.

The last time first could be classed as being predatory was when they used to operate the Extras on the 201 between Hamilton and Coatbridge.

 

[DC21]

Its borderline predatory, the fact first is running the 211 via Calderbank and not Chaplehall proves without a doubt, this isn't about creating a bold new network and more about getting back at JMB. It should be noted First has give the people of Bellshill and Viewpark a fast bus to Glasgow.

The last time first could be classed as being predatory was when they used to operate the Extras on the 201 between Hamilton and Coatbridge.

The 202 ran via Calderbank prior to the 211 starting. Albeit it didn't go round the houses. First must get passengers there, but does seem like a battle with JMB because Chapelhall only has the McNairns bus to Airdrie/Coatbridge which must have decent amount of passengers

 

[mattb7tl]

True. But attacking a smaller, but growing operator, is a way to stop future competition. First clearly see a threat.

The irony is First dumped their X1 yet JMB have made it a success and used it to grow their operation and ambition. I hope JMB win this “bus war” against the distinctly unimaginative dull management of First.

We have seen this playbook before, and it rarely ends well for the smaller operator. Anyone hoping the CMA will ride to the rescue is, I am afraid, in for a disappointment, even if predatory intent could be proven.

First are simply too big to be meaningfully punished. The CMA cannot impose any serious consequence without risking knock on damage to the wider regional network, and they know it. At worst, First face a fine somewhere in the low five figures, the corporate equivalent of an £80 speeding ticket to a billionaire. Loose change.

 

[DC21]

Will we see JMB change it the next weeks given their announcement? What could they do? Be hard given they don't have many spare buses. Can't see them doing anything on the Muirhouse corridor that's flooded with 266 and 291/293. Overtown to Motherwell hit the 240? Be interesting to see how things shape up soon

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Its borderline predatory, the fact first is running the 211 via Calderbank and not Chaplehall proves without a doubt, this isn't about creating a bold new network and more about getting back at JMB. It should be noted First has give the people of Bellshill and Viewpark a fast bus to Glasgow.

It’s not predatory even if the clear intent is to undermine JMB.

To use an analogy… if you had a village shop, and Tesco decided to open an Express opposite, that’s not predatory. They may stress Clubcard benefits and also benefit from greater purchasing power. That’s not predatory even though they are likely to be abstracting your trade as that is fair competition.

However, were they to sell their soup/bins at 5p/tin and other products at unfeasibly low prices, that is predatory pricing. Similarly, if they opened a second shop so that there was 4 times more sq footage then that would be predatory too.

 

[overthewater]

So we just have to wait until First introduced a £1 weekly ticket?

 

[AilsaBus]

So we just have to wait until First introduced a £1 weekly ticket?

This isn't the 1990s and I doubt First, or any operator for that matter, would introduce a £1 weekly ticket these days.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Anyone would think this was the first time a competitive service has been launched in 40 years of bus deregulation…

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Anyone would think this was the first time a competitive service has been launched in 40 years of bus deregulation…

Turned into a pure greetin and moaning match

 

[ScotRail158725]

Maybe a hot take but people here are acting like First have launched a full in nuclear assault, yes they’re obviously trying to compete with chapelhall and lanark but other than that the other changes are improvements id say? bys wars happen all the time here there and everywhere this isnt the first and wont be the last and as mentioned previously there are no pedatory tactics being uses so its not like JMB can complain

 

[EYFanatic]

We have seen this playbook before, and it rarely ends well for the smaller operator.

Shades of Darlington perhaps?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Shades of Darlington perhaps?

No - nothing like it.

 

[Metal Mickey]

Turned into a pure greetin and moaning match

I think it’s more to do with the fact that First have taken their eye off the ball with regards to the city network and also the core Lanarkshire routes like the 201 and 240 but instead they’re adding recourse into areas which already have adequate provision from another operator.

Look closely at some of the city timetables and you’ll notice that some frequencies gradually reduce at the time of day when journeys are at their busiest - Monday to Friday from 1400 to 1800.

 

[jazza374]

Turned into a pure greetin and moaning match

100% this. I posted about the 211 going into North Lodge in a Motherwell Facebook group in response to question asked. Got accused of being a First Bus employee or an SPT bigwig who was doing the dirty on their 244, got chucked out the group. Unbelievable reaction.

 

[mattb7tl]

Shades of Darlington perhaps?

Far too many examples of large operators stomping on small operators, which at the moment is incredibly ironic as big operators are currently using independents as a "gotcha" against franchising despite the fact they have killed more independents than franchising ever could.

 

[stevieinselby]

It’s not predatory even if the clear intent is to undermine JMB.

To use an analogy… if you had a village shop, and Tesco decided to open an Express opposite, that’s not predatory. They may stress Clubcard benefits and also benefit from greater purchasing power. That’s not predatory even though they are likely to be abstracting your trade as that is fair competition.

However, were they to sell their soup/bins at 5p/tin and other products at unfeasibly low prices, that is predatory pricing. Similarly, if they opened a second shop so that there was 4 times more sq footage then that would be predatory too.

I would say the distinction is whether they are running the service at a loss or not.
Sure, any new service will take a bit of time to get up to full usage, so I wouldn't expect First's offering to be profitable from day 1 ... but if they're using their larger size to bankroll a still loss-making service in the medium term, with the hope of breaking JMB and forcing them to quit their route so that First get it to themselves, then surely that would come under the heading of predatory or anti-competitive behaviour, even if they aren't actually undercutting JMB by any significant margin.
On the other hand, if First can run the service at a profit even while sharing it with JMB then that is the kind of competition that a deregulated environment is supposed to promote, even if it may not always deliver outcomes that we might want to see.

(Not that I expect First to have the patience to stick with a loss-making service until they've bullied JMB out of the way, given that on past showing whenever they have tried going head-to-head with an incumbent operator they have usually bailed very quickly when it doesn't turn out to be an immediate money-maker!)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I would say the distinction is whether they are running the service at a loss or not.
Sure, any new service will take a bit of time to get up to full usage, so I wouldn't expect First's offering to be profitable from day 1 ... but if they're using their larger size to bankroll a still loss-making service in the medium term, with the hope of breaking JMB and forcing them to quit their route so that First get it to themselves, then surely that would come under the heading of predatory or anti-competitive behaviour, even if they aren't actually undercutting JMB by any significant margin.
On the other hand, if First can run the service at a profit even while sharing it with JMB then that is the kind of competition that a deregulated environment is supposed to promote, even if it may not always deliver outcomes that we might want to see.

(Not that I expect First to have the patience to stick with a loss-making service until they've bullied JMB out of the way, given that on past showing whenever they have tried going head-to-head with an incumbent operator they have usually bailed very quickly when it doesn't turn out to be an immediate money-maker!)

There is a legal distinction/definition as to what predatory behaviour is. It can refer to fares and/or resources.

As for comparisons with Darlington, it is nothing like it.

 

[DC21]

100% this. I posted about the 211 going into North Lodge in a Motherwell Facebook group in response to question asked. Got accused of being a First Bus employee or an SPT bigwig who was doing the dirty on their 244, got chucked out the group. Unbelievable reaction.

Surely the residents would be happy a direct link to Hamilton without changing and places beyond Motherwell which I doubt many would travel though

 

[tbtc]

The vast majority of the First changes seem perfectly fine

The 291/293 seems a sensible attempt to link two existing routes, improving Hospital access, fine

The X44 creates a few new links, especially to Glasgow (but also, e.g. Belshill - Mossend - Holytown). I can't see it lasting more than a year or two (without some serious surgery), but that's more a reflection of my feelings towards First's habit of coming up with nice ideas but then retrenching rather than continuing to back them

The 211 is the "efficient" combination of various local services that big operators/PTEs increasingly like, ticking lots of boxes even if nobody is going to sit on it for long distance journeys

No complaints about those routes

The 209 is clearly a retaliation against the 5, but, IMHO, fair enough, bigger operators shouldn't be unable to fight back against underdogs, it's understandable (if not exactly great) that they are using their resources to defend what they think of as "their" territory

If the above changes were the only changes then I don't think we'd need having this argument

It's the 243 to Lanark that sticks out like a sore thumb. Throwing a large number of vehicles (eight buses south of Motherwell?) at a corridor that First had long abandoned (with a brief attempt at a Lanark service a few years ago, before giving up)... That's a lot harder to defend

It's nowhere near the same ball park as Darlington etc, it just seems a waste of resources to run a fifteen minute service to Lanark, when there's already a good JMB service (and many corridors in Glasgow/Lanarkshire where First could use those buses to improve their existing network - e.g. the awkward gaps on previously frequent services)

 

[jazza374]

Surely the residents would be happy a direct link to Hamilton without changing and places beyond Motherwell which I doubt many would travel though

This was my point to them in a nutshell.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

This was my point to them in a nutshell.

Social media has turned people potty these days

 

[overthewater]

It should be pointed out First / KCB hasn't operated route 209 in 30 years, I think they give it up around 1996/97 changes It Was A&J Ballantyne coaches that operate that route for years afterwards? First also throwaway the direct daytime link between Calderbank and Holytown must be around 20 years ago? and it only come back when JMB started running the 42.

Yes we can give credit to First for some of the changes:
* 291/293
* X44 gives Belshill a fast bus to Glasgow
* Parts of the 211 it goes via North Lodge and also gives Thrashbush in Airdrie a proper daytime bus since covid? Wasn't it Slocoach that used to operate this route and others with Motherwell?

First could have done all of this years ago: but didn't, as mention above the city network isn't great either, Overtown is dumping ground for older stock etc That what peed people off, if JMB hadn't done anything First wouldn't have made any improvements. First want its cake, and passengers to have worse bus service overall..

 

[Jordan1296]

JMB have registered a timetable change to the X1 from 10th May and a route plus timetable change to the 5 from 11th May.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

JMB have registered a timetable change to the X1 from 10th May and a route plus timetable change to the 5 from 11th May.

Noticed they've bought a brand new EvoSeti as well, probably for Schools though

 

[Jordan1296]

Noticed they've bought a brand new EvoSeti as well, probably for Schools though

Looks the Motherwell - Hamilton section for the 5 will be withdrawn.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Looks the Motherwell - Hamilton section for the 5 will be withdrawn.

Yep seen that on the registration, Was never that busy on that section and always ended up with delays with the traffic in Hamilton

 

[overthewater]

So the No5 has been given a new registration? I spotted it axed yesterday but nothing else appeared:

• PM1087164/36 Cancelled​

  J M B TRAVEL LTD
  Route: Bellshill, Hattonrigg Road to Hamilton Bus Station via Mossend, New Stevenston
  Service number: 5
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 11 May 2026