Jimmy Savile

[WestRiding]

Am I alone in feeling a certain degree of unease in the way his character is being besmirched with seemingly no one to defend him. Obviously as he is deceased he is unable to do this himself. I don't think I have heard one instance of anyone attempting to explain what happened.

If he is guilty of the allegations that have surfaced then certainly his conduct is reprehensible, but one wonders why the accusers have waited so long to come forward.

Even worse is a multitude of female commentators coming forward to claim they have been the subject of various assaults and or harrassment. I have noted Liz Kershaw and Janet street Porter at the forefront of these harridans.

Tellingly neither of them have named the alleged perpetrators who are seemingly still alive. Until they do no credence should be given to their stories which is essentially what they are without full disclosure.

I saw Freddie Starr denying he was involved on the news tonight - along with his 34yr old fiancee (theres hope for me yet ) seemingly standing by him. He has not aged well and seems very bloated.

I started work in the late seventies and believe me predatory behaviour was not exclusive to males in the workplace. Middle-Aged Females are just as capable as Men of subjecting junior employees to humiliating and compromising situations. "De-Bagging" young males was almost "de rigeur"

Not that alot of women have seen pound signs or anything.

 

[jon0844]

It was silly for them to assume people wouldn't go onto Google and start searching to find the name though. Of course, people were going to be doing that anyway as it was already being spread all over cyberspace.

Ironically, if the BBC hadn't commented at all - they'd have been accused of another cover up. I had a very busy week last week with work and events, so didn't watch much news - but surely some other papers and TV news must have said similar things? Not even the Daily Mail?

 

[table38]

They didn't even name the man for goodness sake.

But as many commentators have pointed out over the weekend, it's a bit weak to run a story without a shred of evidence, having not even spoken to the alleged perpetrator first, and leading to a vast amount of speculation and potentially libelous tweets pointing the finger by people who whould know better (such as Sally Bercow and George Monbiot).

Here's a different perspectve from Boris Johnson, writing yesterday in the DT:

The programme makers hadn’t taken account of the real anxieties about the reliability of their witness, as expressed by Sir Ronald Waterhouse, who led the inquiry into Bryn Estyn.

They hadn’t shown him a picture of McAlpine. They hadn’t even put the allegations to McAlpine! Unbelievable! And why not? It was, as they say, a story that was too good to check.

It wasn’t just that it showed Newsnight taking up the cudgels against paedophiles, after the embarrassment of the axed Savile exposé. It went one better. It pushed all the buttons.

It was like a dream come true for any vaguely resentful and Left-of-centre BBC producer.

It was a chance to pour unlimited ordure on a man who – in their book – jolly well had it coming. He is rich, he is a toff, he is a Lord, he is a Tory, and – joy of joys – he is an EX-AIDE TO MRS THATCHER.

 

[SS4]

But as many commentators have pointed out over the weekend, it's a bit weak to run a story without a shred of evidence, having not even spoken to the alleged perpetrator first, and leading to a vast amount of speculation and potentially libelous tweets pointing the finger by people who whould know better (such as Sally Bercow and George Monbiot).

Here's a different perspectve from Boris Johnson, writing yesterday in the DT:

The Torygraph ran a story, featuring a prominent Tory, defending a currently prominent Tory? Who'd have thunk it? :roll:

That said Boris may have a point. The BBC really can't win though with pretty much every other media outlet out to get them putting them in a lose-lose situation. Didn't expose speculation (at the time, arguably still the case today) about Savile and caught flak (or FlaK for the pedants ), exposed an unnamed ex-politican and caught flak after claims proved false.

As the Megadeth song Sweating Bullets put it hindsight is always 20/20

As Redditor the_ultravixens put it

Newsnight runs piece with poorly researched journalism, innocent man get implicated, head of BBC resigns.

The Sun smears people numerous times, probably engages in systematic phone hacking (bollocks was it confined to NOTW), does stuff like naming and shaming paedophiles based on bugger all evidence, generally engages in the very worst practices of shoddy gutter journalism and then has the ****ing temerity to have a go at the BBC.

I love how the media in this country works.

 

[Johnuk123]

Why is Stephen Messham the bloke who started all this off constantly called a 'victim' ?

According to his own solicitor he's 'disturbed' and tends to get things wrong.
Nobody has ever been convicted of any offence against Messham everything he says is an allegation only.

He may well have been abused but until something is proved beyond doubt he is just a person with allegations to make nothing else.

 

[Butts]

I note the "hairy cornflake" was hauled in for questioning today and released on bail.

Might I suggest some of our younger members in the age of "social media" may not appreciate how big the stars of Radio One were thirty years ago.

They were virtual gods in the pre-internet age and huge figures in their own right , perhaps on a par with David Beckham and Lady Ga Ga today.

Temptation must have been presented on a daily basis and I wonder how many of us would have turned away 15 year old hotties throwing themselves at us being young virile 20odd year old young men ?

Radio One on the road....it's the sound thats alive on 275 and 285..yes not even FM then let alone digital.

How pathetic can you get? tuned into TOTP2 on BBC4 at work to find the scheduled DLT episode had been replaced by a Kid Jensen one

 

[flymo]

I note the "hairy cornflake" was hauled in for questioning today and released on bail.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's on a diet of Radio One and I remember DLT with great affection. The 'Monday Cringe' and 'Pot Black' were two of my favourites. Whatever he is accused of today does not in any way sully my memories of him on R1, innocent until proven guilty.

Might I suggest some of our younger members in the age of "social media" may not appreciate how big the stars of Radio One were thirty years ago.

I do differentiate between DLT and Savile here and I do agree with Butts regarding some R1 DJs, Steve Wright and Noel Edmonds to name but two.

Radio One on the road....it's the sound thats alive on 275 and 285..yes not even FM then let alone digital.

Crikey I still remember R1 on 247m!!

 

[bnm]

Radio One on the road....it's the sound thats alive on 275 and 285..yes not even FM then let alone digital.

I remember the early days of FM on Radio 1, when it wasn't even referred to as FM. The Radio 1 jingle went: "2-7-5 and 2-8-5 and stereo V-H-F".

They used Radio 2's FM frequency when it wasn't required by them. The charts on Sunday and John Peel were two shows I used to listen to in 'Stereo VHF' before Radio 1 was allocated the 97-99FM bandwidth.

 

[Geezertronic]

DLT's arrest is apparently to do with groping women not molesting children. It's a shame that the Savile name has been brought up with DLTs arrest as people will obviously suspect him of child abuse now despite what the facts really are

 

[swj99]

I think this whole witch hunt is a tragedy. Although which witch hunt we're up to now is beyond me, I've lost count.

The way the media have handled this is outrageous. Media circus doesn't even begin to describe it, and I think the public who buy into all this are basically taking it in like a toilet seat.

 

[Butts]

DLT's arrest is apparently to do with groping women not molesting children. It's a shame that the Savile name has been brought up with DLTs arrest as people will obviously suspect him of child abuse now despite what the facts really are

Can you get arrested for that ????

Every man in Britain over 40 years old wait for the knock on the door :roll:

 

[Eagle]

Can you get arrested for that ????

Yes, you can get six months for it too if it can be proved that you've caused harassment, alarm or distress.

(And in Scotland that sentence can be upped to five years in the most serious cases of harassment.)

Quite right too IMO.

 

[Butts]

Yes, you can get six months for it too if it can be proved that you've caused harassment, alarm or distress.

(And in Scotland that sentence can be upped to five years in the most serious cases of harassment.)

Quite right too IMO.

Thirty years ago you got a medal.....changed times indeed

 

[Greenback]

I think that the police will have to arrest just about every male who was working in the 1960's and 1970's in the end.

 

[Flamingo]

There is an element of "where does it end"? I'm sure that there are a lot of other crimes from the 70's and since that warrent this level of attention, but because they don't involve sex will never get it.

 

[Greenback]

They don't involve sex or the media you mean!

The simple fact is that groping woemn, rightly or wrongly, was not considered a crime by society until relatively recently. If any individual did consider it a crime, and tried to make an issue of it, they were normally told by the police or those in authority to worry about more important things.

I don't think we ought to be conducting some sort of revisionist policy to try and eradicate the sins of the past, now that such behaviour is, quite rightly, treated with the seriousness it deserves.

 

[Flamingo]

I know it is somewhat trite to say that the past is a diffrent country, but it does need keeping in mind. Are we now going to start prosecuting retired teachers who used corporal punishment for assault? (if yes, I know one old git who is going to the top of the list!)

 

[Greenback]

I know it is somewhat trite to say that the past is a diffrent country, but it does need keeping in mind. Are we now going to start prosecuting retired teachers who used corporal punishment for assault? (if yes, I know one old git who is going to the top of the list!)

It may be trite, but it is also very true! I don't suppose they can prosecute teachers, though, as corporal punishment wasn't illegal at the time. Otherwise I would grass up a few sadists myself!

 

[Butts]

I think that the police will have to arrest just about every male who was working in the 1960's and 1970's in the end.

And a good few females as well....those married women when you are a teenager or in your twenties....funny no males complained !!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It may be trite, but it is also very true! I don't suppose they can prosecute teachers, though, as corporal punishment wasn't illegal at the time. Otherwise I would grass up a few sadists myself!

I had the belt in Scotland - at primary school (imagine the fuss that would cause today) and the cane in England at Secondary School. I was also hit round the back of the head and had chalk and blackboard rubbers thrown at me. But the most annoying thing was boys were called by their surnames and girls by their christian names !!!

I turned out ok ???? just look at my postings !!

 

[table38]

And a good few females as well....those married women when you are a teenager or in your twenties....funny no males complained !!!

When working as an apprentice in the late 70's I'd broken the zip on my jeans, and some of the suggestions from the women in the factory where I worked would definitely count as sexual harrassment today

I turned out ok ???? just look at my postings !!

Maybe it was that experience that sent me off in a different direction!

 

[Butts]

When working as an apprentice in the late 70's I'd broken the zip on my jeans, and some of the suggestions from the women in the factory where I worked would definitely count as sexual harrassment today

In some of the places I worked they would have sowed the zip back whilst positioning "your todger" - thats if they didn't whip it out for the girls !!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There is an updated edition of "Exposure" (perhaps not the best title in the circumstances) on ITV tonight. It is supposed to focus on the continuing story and revelations.

My guess is it will have a far higher audience than most editions

 

[swj99]

Saw this on another website, and although it's meant as a joke, it seems quite apt really.....

Time is the greatest healer.

Unless you were molested by Jimmy Savile 40 years ago, then the solution appears to be money.

 

[Butts]

I note Cyril Smith the late Liberal Politician has been dragged into a similar list of accusations dating back to the sixties.

He used to be a mainstay of Question Time and By-Election Specials and certainly was a "big presence" in every sense.

I must admit to being shocked by this , who knows whats coming next

 

[wintonian]

I note Cyril Smith the late Liberal Politician has been dragged into a similar list of accusations dating back to the sixties.

I would point out that although he was a Liberal (as in Liberal Party) he joined Labour became, an Independent, rejoined the Liberal Party, opposed the alliance and then joined the Liberal Democrats - so clearly was somewhat indecisive in his politics.

 

[Butts]

I would point out that although he was a Liberal (as in Liberal Party) he joined Labour became, an Independent, rejoined the Liberal Party, opposed the alliance and then joined the Liberal Democrats - so clearly was somewhat indecisive in his politics.

I wasn't trying to make a Political point, just drawing attention to the shock I had that Cyril was seemingly involved in these sort of activities. As a panellist I always found him to be forthright and honest in his contributions.

 

[wintonian]

I wasn't trying to make a Political point, just drawing attention to the shock I had that Cyril was seemingly involved in these sort of activities. As a panellist I always found him to be forthright and honest in his contributions.

I wasn't suggesting you were - nearly pointing out his indecisiveness in-case anyone was thinking of making it political.

 

[Oswyntail]

I wasn't trying to make a Political point, just drawing attention to the shock I had that Cyril was seemingly involved in these sort of activities. As a panellist I always found him to be forthright and honest in his contributions.

Absolutely. But that is part of a general difficulty. Unless we have direct experience, it is too easy to imagine that "evil" people are monsters, bearing the mark of Cain, easily identifiable by "obvious traits". They are not. They tend to be indistinguishable from anyone else, possibly charming, "forthright and honest", equally possibly grumpy and reclusive. And, importantly, they could be very good at their jobs and providing benefits to society (yes, in their ways, like Savile, Glitter and Smith). We should not necessarily let subsequent knowledge of their evil side obscure the good parts of what they did.

 

[Butts]

Absolutely. But that is part of a general difficulty. Unless we have direct experience, it is too easy to imagine that "evil" people are monsters, bearing the mark of Cain, easily identifiable by "obvious traits". They are not. They tend to be indistinguishable from anyone else, possibly charming, "forthright and honest", equally possibly grumpy and reclusive. And, importantly, they could be very good at their jobs and providing benefits to society (yes, in their ways, like Savile, Glitter and Smith). We should not necessarily let subsequent knowledge of their evil side obscure the good parts of what they did.

I agree with your last sentence, the two "sides" should be examined in isolation.

 

[Butts]

Stuart Hall has now been charged with three counts of Indecent Assault against young girls from about thirty years ago ......

 

[kylemore]

This seems to be the pattern, a drip drip drip of sad case non-entities, preferably in their 80s.

However when it got too close to important people and the establishment it was ruthlessly stopped in it's tracks!