Jimmy Savile

[Peter Mugridge]

It seems that lots of people were "reporting" this at a level they felt prudent ie supervisors at hospitals or teachers at homes etc, they appeared to meet with discouragement that in some cases bordered on threats.
So this idea that there was'nt a peep until he died is incorrect. I mean if the average vulnerable 14 year old in a home meets with ridicule and threats they are not going to take it any further.

There is a timeline in the Daily Telegraph today which states that Savile was interviewed under caution by Surrey police in the 1970s over this subject, but that seems to have been as far it got. It also states he was investigated by Sussex police in 2008 over a ( separate ) allegation dating back to the 1970s.

 

[SS4]

They can go after me as well if they like, although he was a year older than me, he is also deceased so that should it in quite nicely here.

If your from a multi-national newspaper and want to negotiate a price please feel free to PM me.

Use the Chewbacca defense

 

[Butts]

Use the Chewbacca defense

For non Star Wars mere mortals could you explain ?

 

[SS4]

For non Star Wars mere mortals could you explain ?

I've never watched Star Wars, saw it on South Park. Essentially to deliberately confuse the jury

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103454/the-chewbacca-defense

 

[Greenback]

Haven't some of those who have alleged abuse indicated that they did mention it to someone (in authority) and were disbelieved? These women have been carrying this 'guilt' around with them for many years and only now do they feel that they can admit to it - it's well known that victims of abuse feel guilt.

Perhaps they did. Unfortunately, what is considered abuse now wasn't necessarily considered abuse in the 1960's and 1970's. Society takes inappropraite touching far more seriously now than used to be the case.

I think that if there were any teenage girls on this forum they might be saying that it is not at all pleasant to be groped - and far worse - by a much older man.

I'm sure they would. But again, times have changed. Teenagers are far more aware of how wrong it is and far more likely to take action against such behaviour now than they would have been forty years ago.

If it was so well known that hospital staff were telling kids to pretend to be asleep how can it possibly not have come out sooner? It makes no sense.

A lot of the stories being trumpeted in the papers makes no sense.

Granted this story is a media feeding frenzy; but Mr Jimmy Saveloy is as guilty as f***.

I really don't think it's possible to come to a definite conclusion without knowing all the evidence, and hearing Savile's defence, which isn't going to be possible now.

He's got the classic paedo presentation, for a start all the charity work and eagerness to please is an attempt to absolve his behaviour. There is no redemption, any fool can regret yesterday.

As I said earlier, he was always going to be a juicy target due to his eccentricities, dress, and lifestyle. Your statement merely supports that view.

Classic paedo presentation? I wasn't aware there was one. Yes he did charity work, but so do thousands of others, it doesn't make them a danger to children. Eagerness to please? Bugger me, if that is one trait of a sex offender then i'm glad no one saw my crappy attempts at trying to please my ex husband/boss/parents etc...

I really do see what you mean, yes he was "odd" his love of shell suits was something i never understood. But, if every odd person was deemed a paedophile then this country and the world would be teeming with them.

Exactly! Very well put.

Through work i have come into contact with sex offenders, and to be truthful every one is very, very different. No two are alike, and they are from every walks of life. I really couldn't fit them into a type or category and i certainly wouldn't be able to tell what they were just by looking at them.

Indeed. I know of one person recently convicted of indecency against a minor who was very 'normal' (though I don't like to use the word) in every way. They most certainly didn't wear shell suits, have peroxide hair or talk ina ridiculous manner.

However, there is no doubt that mr SAVILE (one L ) if he was guilty of these crimes, has got away with it, and i really wish that these allegations could have come to light while justice could have been done.

I feel for his victims (again if allegations are true) and i feel for Mr Saviles family, who frankly must be feeling humiliated and down right let down.

Quite.

As ana side, I also had an acquaintance who, back in 1990, claimed to have been a victim of a sexul offence perpetrated by a TV presenter of the time.

I was never told of the full details of what happened, but when I asked why it wasn't reported, the response was quite similar to some of the reports about Jimmy Savile, in that no one would believe the allegations. Also, they said they didn't want to be all over the papers if anything ever came to court, despite the fact that I said they might get a bit of money out of the News of the World.

The upshot is that it was their decision, but if that TV presenter died tomorrow and similar allegations were made, although it would confirm in my own mind that my friend was telling the truth, I would not be happy if they then decided to join in the frenzy. As far as I am concerned they had their chance to do soemthing about it twenty odd years ago. Although the person in question was, and still is, a very good friend, I would think it a bit cowardly to only come forward after the abuser had passed on.

I realise that not everyone will agree with me on that, but it's how I feel. Fortunately, my friend has long since moved on and I don't believe they would wish to rake up such a nasty, sordid little event and the horrible memories that must be associated with it.

 

[Metroland]

Well it's got to the point now that seeing pictures of Jimmy Savile makes you feel quite ill.

I didn't believe this at first, I'm afraid now the sheer weight of evidence means something has gone on.

I can see how this has happened though. The overriding thing that has gone on seems to be he was a much liked and popular figure (I'll admit I did share those sentiments!) and either people didn't quite believe it because people were taking a pop at his personality or they didn't want to rock the BBC boat. Well liked people can often get away with things in any walk of life, we all know this, although obviously not on the same scale.

This happens in a lot of companies, happens in government, and other public bodies such as the police. The problem witnesses or complainants have (aka whistle-blowers) is all to often they are seen to be 'rocking the boat'. The majority of people actually don't have much of a spine, and will fear for their jobs, position in life and so on. So when management go in and start asking questions often there is a wall of silence, or simply a cover up - because that's the easy option. Investigations are made or statements are released, and everyone going back to a consensus 'nothing is wrong, carry on'.

You really do have to feel bad for these poor kids, adults that were there to protect them have essentially let them down. The ones that did stick up for them, have been let down by higher authorities.

 

[43021HST]

Classic paedo presentation? I wasn't aware there was one. Yes he did charity work, but so do thousands of others, it doesn't make them a danger to children. Eagerness to please? Bugger me, if that is one trait of a sex offender then i'm glad no one saw my crappy attempts at trying to please my ex husband/boss/parents etc...

I really do see what you mean, yes he was "odd" his love of shell suits was something i never understood. But, if every odd person was deemed a paedophile then this country and the world would be teeming with them.

Through work i have come into contact with sex offenders, and to be truthful every one is very, very different. No two are alike, and they are from every walks of life. I really couldn't fit them into a type or category and i certainly wouldn't be able to tell what they were just by looking at them.

However, there is no doubt that mr SAVILE (one L ) if he was guilty of these crimes, has got away with it, and i really wish that these allegations could have come to light while justice could have been done.

I feel for his victims (again if allegations are true) and i feel for Mr Saviles family, who frankly must be feeling humiliated and down right let down.

Yes classic paedo presentation, I've dealt with these people and generally they generally share similar traits. Charity work: Its not a criticism of charity work as such, but often these types of people do good work to try to absolve their own conscience. Everyone makes attempts to please people, but Sir Vile was over the top, that says something.

And as for the desolation row, easy access shell suits...
Well think about it.
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I really don't think it's possible to come to a definite conclusion without knowing all the evidence, and hearing Savile's defence, which isn't going to be possible now.

As I said earlier, he was always going to be a juicy target due to his eccentricities, dress, and lifestyle. Your statement merely supports that view.

Don't you mean Jimmy So Vile's excuses.
His eccentricities, dress, and lifestyle was part of the paedo modus operandi.

 

[class 101]

James Bond, James Savile, celebrate 50 years of psychopathy and sexual violence. Crude seduction techniques, unwarranted advances, sexual demands with menaces.

 

[Flamingo]

Yes classic paedo presentation, I've dealt with these people and generally they generally share similar traits. Charity work: Its not a criticism of charity work as such, but often these types of people do good work to try to absolve their own conscience. Everyone makes attempts to please people, but Sir Vile was over the top, that says something.

And as for the desolation row, easy access shell suits...
Well think about it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Don't you mean Jimmy So Vile's excuses.
His eccentricities, dress, and lifestyle was part of the paedo modus operandi.

"Grab your torch and pitchfork, we've got to protect the kiddies..."

 

[Greenback]

Don't you mean Jimmy So Vile's excuses.
His eccentricities, dress, and lifestyle was part of the paedo modus operandi.

The worst part of all this is that views like yours will lead to everyone who wears shell suits being villifed, or at least viewed with deep suspicion.

I have no great love for shell suits, but seriously, are we now at the point of labelling people who wear particular types of clothes, do charity work, live alone, or even talk in a strnage way as paedophiles?

I hope not, for it would be sure and certain proof that this country has irretrievably gone down the toilet.

 

[wintonian]

His eccentricities, dress, and lifestyle was part of the paedo modus operandi.

I don't believe this constitutes a crime or evidence of one.

You seem to be quite happy to take idle speculation from the less savoury aspects of the media (and furthered by others) as fact and see no need to wait for any judicial process to conclude or respect for due process (if indeed it applies to deceased persons).

 

[SS4]

As usual Simpsons did it

[youtube]Qh2sWSVRrmo[/youtube]

/s

 

[wintonian]

The worst part of all this is that views like yours will lead to everyone who wears shell suits being villifed, or at least viewed with deep suspicion.

I have no great love for shell suits, but seriously, are we now at the point of labelling people who wear particular types of clothes, do charity work, live alone, or even talk in a strnage way as paedophiles?

I hope not, for it would be sure and certain proof that this country has irretrievably gone down the toilet.

Quite,

I thought we had a long time ago see an end to such ropey legal practices as Spectral evidence or someones general behaviour being used to as admissible evidence to prove the offence of witchcraft.

 

[Greenback]

You seem to be quite happy to take idle speculation from the less savoury aspects of the media (and furthered by others) as fact and see no need to wait for any judicial process to conclude or respect for due process (if indeed it applies to deceased persons).

klambert doesn't seem to be alone in that. Plenty of people are quite prepared to support the notion of trial by media.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Quite,

I thought we had a long time ago see an end to such ropey legal practices as Spectral evidence or someones general behaviour being used to as admissible evidence to prove the offence of witchcraft.

So did I. To be honest, I am disturbed by the BBC apologising for things that haven't been proven, long before their investigations have even begun, never mind been concluded.

Don't get me wrong. If Jimmy Savile did sexaully assault or rape everyone he deserved to have been charged and punished if found guilty in a court of law. But that can't happen now. All that can happen is that charity work suffers, his relatives suffer, and as we can see, there is a very real danger that eecentric people will also end up suffering.

And, after all this coverage, could there ever be any real justice? None of this would have been allowed if the accused were still alive.

 

[wintonian]

klambert doesn't seem to be alone in that. Plenty of people are quite prepared to support the notion of trial by media.

Unfortunately the phrase 'no smoke without fire' seems to resonate unshakeably amongst a large minority of society that often sees things as black and white or shades of grey at best.

 

[43021HST]

The worst part of all this is that views like yours will lead to everyone who wears shell suits being villifed, or at least viewed with deep suspicion.

I have no great love for shell suits, but seriously, are we now at the point of labelling people who wear particular types of clothes, do charity work, live alone, or even talk in a strnage way as paedophiles?

I hope not, for it would be sure and certain proof that this country has irretrievably gone down the toilet.

Is this going to turn into a labelling debate? If so I'm not willing to discuss the complexities of where paedos start and where you're average track suit wearing weirdo leaves off.

May I just ask, have you had any experience of dealing with Paedos? Trust me, I know what I'm talking about and no I'm not adopting the mob rule approach, I'm using my own experiences, coupled with reliable sources to form my opinions of Jimmy Saville and he shows the traits of being a paedo.

My sources do not consist of any tabloids or newspapers.
Remember this, criminals are all different, meanwhile mentally ill people of a certain category share similar traits.

 

[ainsworth74]

Any chance we could know what your sources are?

 

[wintonian]

So did I. To be honest, I am disturbed by the BBC apologising for things that haven't been proven, long before their investigations have even begun, never mind been concluded.

A political decission no doubt - they can't bee seen to condone it and by not condemning it thats how pwpole will see it.

Don't get me wrong. If Jimmy Savile did sexaully assault or rape everyone he deserved to have been charged and punished if found guilty in a court of law. But that can't happen now. All that can happen is that charity work suffers, his relatives suffer, and as we can see, there is a very real danger that eecentric people will also end up suffering.

Agreed,

I think most people who have contributed here are also in agreement with this but also understand the relationship this must have with the principles of fairness and Audi alteram partem
- although not entirely possible here the principle still stands.

And, after all this coverage, could there ever be any real justice? None of this would have been allowed if the accused were still alive.

I suspect some parts of the media would just have been more careful about how they did it whilst arbitrary deciding where the line is to favour their needs.

 

[43021HST]

And, after all this coverage, could there ever be any real justice? None of this would have been allowed if the accused were still alive.

Exactly none of this would have happened if the accused was still alive, because Jimmy would have used his money and influence to make sure this story wouldn't have been allowed.

 

[Greenback]

Is this going to turn into a labelling debate? If so I'm not willing to discuss the complexities of where paedos start and where you're average track suit wearing weirdo leaves off.

Fine, but why bring paedo modus operandi into the discussion at all if that is the case?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suspect some parts of the media would just have been more careful about how they did it whilst arbitrary deciding where the line is to favour their needs.

Yes, that's probably right.

 

[43021HST]

Any chance we could know what your sources are?

For a start I took two Paedos to court recently and someone I know worked in a line of 'care' work which dealt with these people.

 

[Greenback]

Exactly none of this would have happened if the accused was still alive, because Jimmy would have used his money and influence to make sure this story wouldn't have been allowed.

I believe that you can't libel the dead, hence newspapers will print anything about dead people without worrying about having to go to court and pay compensation.

However, you do have a good point about people using their influence. I imagine that it is true that his charity work, and the effect that publishing allegations might have had on fund raising, could have been a powerful weapon in the Savile arsenal in persuading editors that stories ought to be buried.

 

[43021HST]

I believe that you can't libel the dead, hence newspapers will print anything about dead people without worrying about having to go to court and pay compensation.

However, you do have a good point about people using their influence. I imagine that it is true that his charity work, and the effect that publishing allegations might have had on fund raising, could have been a powerful weapon in the Savile arsenal in persuading editors that stories ought to be buried.

I in no way normally support the mass media's opinions, and that releasing the story now is like shooting fish in barrel, but I hope at least this investigation will bring closure for the victims.

 

[Greenback]

I in no way normally support the mass media's opinions, and that releasing the story now is like shooting fish in barrel, but I hope at least this investigation will bring closure for the victims.

Yes, that may be the only good thing that emerges from all of this.

 

[SS4]

I in no way normally support the mass media's opinions, and that releasing the story now is like shooting fish in barrel, but I hope at least this investigation will bring closure for the alleged victims.

FTFY.
As Giordano Bruno (may have) said: Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.

 

[jon0844]

Given everyone can now say 'I never trusted him', can these same people name the others they don't trust now, rather than waiting until it is in the papers?

If clothing or a certain look is a sure sign, it should be easy to out the other offenders now - before they die.

 

[GB]

Is someone on here really suggesting someone is a pedo based on their looks, their cloths, charitable work and the way they speak? Ive never heard such twaddle and I'm just glad you are not on a jury :roll:

How many of the 10's of Police officers or teachers convicted over the past couple of years fell into those categories??...not too many I would suspect.

Last I heard convictions were based on ACTUAL evidence, not someones opinion or personal criteria.

 

[Butts]

An interesting aside to the controversy.....

In Spain the age of consent is 13, and it is 14 in Germany and Austria and many other European Countries.

This seems to have been the alleged "target range" for Savile

 

[ainsworth74]

In Spain the age of consent is 13, and it is 14 in Germany and Austria and many other European Countries.

This seems to have been the alleged "target range" for Savile

Though in Germany, for example, there are certain protections still in place such as a person over the age of 21 who exploits 14-15 year old's lack of sexual self-determination would be committing an offence. I'd suggest that if Savile did commit the crimes he's accused of then he could well have fallen foul of this protection.

 

[wintonian]

An interesting aside to the controversy.....

In Spain the age of consent is 13, and it is 14 in Germany and Austria and many other European Countries.

This seems to have been the alleged "target range" for Savile

The Marriage Act of 1929 increased the legal age at which one could marry in the UK to 16 and in the 18th century it was legal for a person of legal age from a wealthy family to marry another of any age.

Additionally when disclosing my experience above I neglected to add that the age of consent was still 18 at the time.

In the end all this demonstrates is how societys attitudes to what is acceptable have evolved over time, which as per our system of parliamentary Legislature is then broadly reflected in our laws.