Jeremy Corbyn's Traingate

[Mordac]

Every two hours to my understanding. Not sure if they are all 20-car double decker though.

Of course, in that interval, there's 4 trains between London and Newcastle.

 

[Darandio]

Yes, you've fallen for the falacy that

People alighted at York at 11.44. The fact that was nothing to do with Corbyn's train is irellevent, and you're clearly part of the anti-corbyn elite.

Really?

So someone obviously pro-Corbyn can spout utter bollocks and anyone that dares to challenge it is irrelevant and anti-Corbyn?

What planet are you from?

 

[southern442]

Of course, in that interval, there's 4 trains between London and Newcastle.

There are other services that run 20-car; that was just one notable service that had double decker 20 car (Paris-Marseille)

 

[6Gman]

Really?

So someone obviously pro-Corbyn can spout utter bollocks and anyone that dares to challenge it is irrelevant and anti-Corbyn?

What planet are you from?

I think he was being facetious.

At least, I hope he was being facetious!

 

[ExRes]

Really?

So someone obviously pro-Corbyn can spout utter bollocks and anyone that dares to challenge it is irrelevant and anti-Corbyn?

What planet are you from?

That'll be Planet RailUK, it's very common in the atmosphere

 

[PHILIPE]

Corbyn now saying he was looking for a double seat for his wife and himself. So you get on a train not having reserved seats and think you should just find these doubles unoccupied. Shows the man's ignorance of life for the masses.

Where was his wife sitting while Jez was on the vestibule floor ? In another vestibule ?

 

[Busaholic]

Where was his wife sitting while Jez was on the vestibule floor ? In another vestibule ?

In First Class?

 

[47271]

I have no interest in Corbyn or what he says or does, or whether Virgin has upset the ICO, but what I do like about this thread is that it's totally distracted the usual keyboard warriors from Southern DOO.

Last DOO post 22 hours ago, that must be the longest gap since Christmas, what's come over you! [emoji38]

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Corbyn now saying he was looking for a double seat for his wife and himself. So you get on a train not having reserved seats and think you should just find these doubles unoccupied. Shows the man's ignorance of life for the masses.

Let him try that this month on the trains leaving Blackpool North in the Manchester direction at the end of a sunny day in the summer school holidays.....:roll:

 

[backontrack]

Corbyn's clearly not sitting by his wife at 11:43.

 

[richw]

Corbyn now saying he was looking for a double seat for his wife and himself. So you get on a train not having reserved seats and think you should just find these doubles unoccupied. Shows the man's ignorance of life for the masses.

If I went to catch a train with my wife having not booked seats we would probably sit in the vestibule together rather than sit apart.
There is no compulsory requirement to book seats.

 

[thenorthern]

This may be stating the obvious but has Corbyn shown that he had permission to film on Virgin Trains for commercial purposes. (Saying false statements about how your party will re-nationalise the railways when after 13 years in power Labour didn't and won't ever is classes as commercial purposes).

Technically Virgin Trains could prosecute him I think, I know when I film on a train for commercial purposes I have to show my certificate of public liability and the TOC have to then check all my footage to see if its acceptable.

There is the public interest defence but that normally only covers news and documentaries not sitting on a train so you can make a point to try and mislead voters about how your party wants to do something it won't.

 

[neonison]

...
There is no compulsory requirement to book seats.

I recall that in the 70s it was compulsory to book seats on certain West Country trains on summer Saturdays.

 

[WatcherZero]

A lot of other countries have compulsory reservations for long distance services with those seat allocations actually enforced. HS2 will almost certainly have an assigned seating arrangement to reduce platform dwells with people encouraged to wait on the platform opposite where the coach containing their seat will stop rather than trekking up and down.

 

[RichmondCommu]

To be fair, at short notice it's difficult to get two seats together let alone a group of seats. The situation is that the message being put forward that rail isn't fit for purpose has been blown apart by a private rail company that profits from the rail system not being fit for purpose. Virgin and other TOCs have a vested interest in making sure Corbyn doesn't get his way, meanwhile the public continues to suffer because some PR spin hides the real story.

Is it really such an issue if you can't sit next to your wife on a train for an hour or two? My wife and I have done many times without fuss or complaint.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Erm, excuse me? Looks like a bit of sarcasm failure on your part. Either that or you're just reading what you want to read.

I was commenting that Corbyn fans won't believe Virgin because it's a big business, not complaining about it myself. If you're going to have a go at me, at least read my posts properly.

Thanks for clearing that up I couldn't be bothered to read the rest of it.

 

[steffo]

I have not read all of this thread. As JC was on his bottom. He actually said we need more trains.

Nothing about the train having enough seats.

Can we actually operate more trains from London to Newcastle on the current timetable via the ECML?

 

[Harbornite]

Thanks for clearing that up I couldn't be bothered to read the rest of it.

Bit rude.

Good to see no one is still playing the "legalities of CCTV" tune on here. Anyone who uses that to defend Corblin is clutching at straws. Just face it, your beloved leader screwed up while trying to score cheap points.

 

[J-2739]

I have not read all of this thread. As JC was on his bottom. He actually said we need more trains.

Nothing about the train having enough seats.

Upcoming new train orders are to cover for this overcrowding issue, and none of this is due to Corbyn.

 

[Harbornite]

Upcoming new train orders are to cover for this overcrowding issue, and none of this is due to Corbyn.

Although on this occasion, the trains are being paid for by the government and not the greedy and evil banks.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Bit rude.

Nope, just being honest. Away from home and surfing the 'Net in the hope it will send me to sleep.

Next.

 

[Harbornite]

Nope, just being honest. Away from home and surfing the 'Net in the hope it will send me to sleep.
t.

Sometimes honesty isn't the best way, just don't tell this to Corbyn.

If you want to sleep, type in ASMrR to YouTube, or alternatively listen to Hannah Fry's little science podcast-type vids on YouTube. Very soothing.

 

[thenorthern]

I have not read all of this thread. As JC was on his bottom. He actually said we need more trains.

Nothing about the train having enough seats.

Can we actually operate more trains from London to Newcastle on the current timetable via the ECML?

In theory I think there is spare capacity on the ECML the problem is though they are only needed at certain times of the day and for the rest of the day they would be sitting around idle.

Think of a road thats congested at rush hour it would make sense to change it to an eight lane motorway for rush hour but for the rest of the day those eight lanes would be empty and wasting money. Its the same with the railways.

 

[FQTV]

In theory I think there is spare capacity on the ECML the problem is though they are only needed at certain times of the day and for the rest of the day they would be sitting around idle.

Think of a road thats congested at rush hour it would make sense to change it to an eight lane motorway for rush hour but for the rest of the day those eight lanes would be empty and wasting money. Its the same with the railways.

Except it isn't, quite.

There's an argument that a significant factor in UK long-distance under/over-crowding is TOC fares policy.

Completely dynamic demand-based revenue management is an oft-pedalled myth. Quota, time and season control are frequently more dominant in the current system.

Private road travel generally has no such pricing control, other than fuel economy - which is largely abstract. Peaks are smoother, as they're purely demand driven. No-one has to defer opening their garage door until 09:30 on a weekday because it'll cost a third of the price that it might 20 minutes earlier.

 

[southern442]

This may be stating the obvious but has Corbyn shown that he had permission to film on Virgin Trains for commercial purposes. (Saying false statements about how your party will re-nationalise the railways when after 13 years in power Labour didn't and won't ever is classes as commercial purposes).

Technically Virgin Trains could prosecute him I think, I know when I film on a train for commercial purposes I have to show my certificate of public liability and the TOC have to then check all my footage to see if its acceptable.

There is the public interest defence but that normally only covers news and documentaries not sitting on a train so you can make a point to try and mislead voters about how your party wants to do something it won't.

Now of course we don't know for sure, but it's incredibly likely that Jeremy Corbyn actually really wants to nationalise the railways. You can tell because he set it out as a main priority straight away, whereas it took Ed Milliband 4 years to say 'parts of the network might return to public ownership' most likely because he didn't actually want it to happen and was trying to either please the less moderate side of the party or win over support from the Green Party.

Nationalising the railways didn't happen during the 13 years of Labour power because it wasn't something that Tony Blair or Gordon Brown ever made a policy. I really have no idea how you can say that something that is a new policy won't happen because it didn't happen back when it wasn't a policy. It's like saying Theresa May won't pull us out of the EU because the Conservatives didn't do it during the 18 years they were in power in the 80's and 90's.

Jeremy Corbyn is not trying to trick people into thinking he will re-nationalise the railways, that is utter rubbish. He was trying to convince people that it is the right thing to do because he wants to do it as well. He's not trying to win votes for people who want a nationalised railway back, he was trying to convince people that nationalisation is the way forward. This sort of misorientated attack takes up most of your argument about commercial/public interest permission to film, and I can't really make sense of it now that we have got that out of the way, so I won't try and respond to anything else.

 

[CarlSilva]

Is this the media clutching at straws looking for any opportunity to discredit this extremely popular, yet 'unelectable man' ?

Anyone seen the political satire songs on youtube, based on Smiths songs ?
They did a few under the joke name The Iain Duncan Smiths, but tehy seem to have moved onto The Owen Smiths for now.
Theres' a great one called, "Heaven Knows I'm Radical Now."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCID1EaMoik

 

[mr_jrt]

The account I have been led to understand it was that his group was booked on an earlier train, but he was delayed from a long conversation with a disabled member of the public, so they were forced to travel on a subsequent service with no reservations.

They looked for seats, could not find any suitable seats, so sat down in the vestibule and as they had a documentary crew with them anyway, took the opportunity to record a short piece on a major policy area of his. The train staff, realising what was going on and how it would be viewed, offered him a complementary upgrade to 1st class, which he declined on principle. They then upgraded some other passengers to 1st class to free up seats for he and his wife, which they then took up.

That's it. No story, just hyperbole in a desperate attempt to smear someone who would mean the end of Mr Branson's gravy train. :/

...and short of reading pages and pages of this thread, can someone do me a favour and let me know what was the conclusion here about the legality of breaching the data protection laws by releasing the CCTV footage?

 

[southern442]

...and short of reading pages and pages of this thread, can someone do me a favour and let me know what was the conclusion here about the legality of breaching the data protection laws by releasing the CCTV footage?

This is RailUKforums for goodness sake, do you honestly think we reached a conclusion?

I haven't seen any new news stories about the inquiry, so as far as the actual thing is concerned, a conclusion hasn't been reached there yet either.

 

[richw]

...and short of reading pages and pages of this thread, can someone do me a favour and let me know what was the conclusion here about the legality of breaching the data protection laws by releasing the CCTV footage?

I haven't read pages to find out, so the following may have already been quoted, but I happen to know the ICO policy, and know cctv operators aren't allowed to disclose footage of identifiable persons to the media. It's in this link somewhere

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/cctv/

CCTV operators are not allowed to disclose images of identifiable people to the media - or to put them on the internet - for entertainment. Images released to the media to help identify a person are usually disclosed by the police.
An organisation may need to disclose CCTV images for legal reasons - for example, crime detection. Once they have given the images to another organisation, then that organisation must adhere to the Data Protection Act in their handling of the images.
Public authorities are subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000, or the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2000. This Act allows members of the public to request official information by writing to the public authority, who must respond within 20 working days. If the images are those of the person making the request, then the request would be handled under the Data Protection Act as a Subject Access Request. If, however, other people are identifiable in the CCTV pictures, then the images would be considered personal information and it is likely they would be exempt from the Freedom of Information Act.

 

[WatcherZero]

Rich that clause is saying the CCTV are not allowed to be used for entertainment purposes. E.g. sending footage of an accident to You've Been Framed.

Basically its only considered a breach by the watchdog to release CCTV if it does provable harm (i.e. if you can see someone walking out of an Adult store or other embarrassing/reputation damaging activity). Virgins privacy policy also has multiple clauses allowing them to use the CCTV images for various purposes, notably resolving disputes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Now of course we don't know for sure, but it's incredibly likely that Jeremy Corbyn actually really wants to nationalise the railways. You can tell because he set it out as a main priority straight away, whereas it took Ed Milliband 4 years to say 'parts of the network might return to public ownership' most likely because he didn't actually want it to happen and was trying to either please the less moderate side of the party or win over support from the Green Party.

Nationalising the railways didn't happen during the 13 years of Labour power because it wasn't something that Tony Blair or Gordon Brown ever made a policy. I really have no idea how you can say that something that is a new policy won't happen because it didn't happen back when it wasn't a policy. It's like saying Theresa May won't pull us out of the EU because the Conservatives didn't do it during the 18 years they were in power in the 80's and 90's.

Jeremy Corbyn is not trying to trick people into thinking he will re-nationalise the railways, that is utter rubbish. He was trying to convince people that it is the right thing to do because he wants to do it as well. He's not trying to win votes for people who want a nationalised railway back, he was trying to convince people that nationalisation is the way forward. This sort of misorientated attack takes up most of your argument about commercial/public interest permission to film, and I can't really make sense of it now that we have got that out of the way, so I won't try and respond to anything else.

Corbyn proposed nationalising railways as a party policy at the national convention but the proposal failed to get the support of a majority of delegates so its not party policy.

 

[miami]

The Guardian reports that Corbyn's campaign has reported that his lies have helped his campaign.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ersy-has-helped-jeremy-corbyns-leadership-bid

Jeremy Corbyn’s campaign team believe his public spat with Virgin trains boss Sir Richard Branson has boosted his chances in the Labour leadership race.

Sam Tarry, the Labour leader’s campaign director, told the Guardian that “from the point of view of the people we want to mobilise, Richard Branson’s done us a favour”.

....

But Tarry, a Labour councillor in Barking and Dagenham with links to the TSSA transport union, insisted the public spat had helped Corbyn, by highlighting his pledge to re-nationalise the railways. Tarry had earlier described Branson as a “tax exile” who was “laughing all the way to the bank”.

They may be right. It wouldn't be the first campaign to lie for policitcal gain - look at brexit.

Rich that clause is saying the CCTV are not allowed to be used for entertainment purposes. E.g. sending footage of an accident to You've Been Framed.

I haven't seen that since Jeremy Beadle, but do they use CCTV? I thought it was home video cameras (or mobile phones I guess now)

Basically its only considered a breach by the watchdog to release CCTV if it does provable harm (i.e. if you can see someone walking out of an Adult store or other embarrassing/reputation damaging activity). Virgins privacy policy also has multiple clauses allowing them to use the CCTV images for various purposes, notably resolving disputes.

At best, Virgin had, and still have, no way of knowing if they would be causing harm by releasing these pictures. The view on this forum is that if you've got something to hide (like walking out of an adult store {seriously, they exist in the internet age?}) then you deserve to have your picture splashed on the front page.