Jeremy Corbyn's Traingate

[miami]

I'm questioning what the law should be, not whether VTEC were correct or wrong in this case considering existing law.

The law should be clear, CCTV images are taken and can be used for listed purposes according to the CCTV code, however should only be stored for purposes of crime prevention, should be stored for a set period of 28 days, no more, no less, should be accessible to those in the image, however all identification of anyone else in the image should be masked, should be accessible to law enforcement in that period, should be accessible by court order, and should not be transferred to another company.

 

[JamesRowden]

The law should be clear, CCTV images are taken and can be used for listed purposes according to the CCTV code, however should only be stored for purposes of crime prevention, should be stored for a set period of 28 days, no more, no less, should be accessible to those in the image, however all identification of anyone else in the image should be masked, should be accessible to law enforcement in that period, should be accessible by court order, and should not be transferred to another company.

Is fraud a crime?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

2. People being vilified for things that they haven't actually said or done is not academic. It's evidence of how powerful the media and big corporations in this country actually are, and something that should worry everyone.

This why people who hate UKIP and/or Farage don't seem to grasp or understand that corperations are cancer and that the media, whehter printed e.g. The xenophobic Guardian or the snide Sun will make their readers think the same or televised such as the pro EU anti-Britain BBC are dangerous.

One only has to look at the twaddle that Southern were coming out with regarding "ill staff" with the DOO thing, I'd guess that around 95% would think that it was true.

Virgin (or Stagecoach since their running the show on the ECML) have decided to publish the CCTV image of Corbyn. Is Virgin still supporters of Labour since the whole Virgin colour scheme is virtually Labour red or have they decided to paddy up to the Tories?


For the record I don't support Labour, Tories, Lib Dems, Greens or even the Student W****rs Party / SWP.

 

[J-2739]

Is fraud a crime?

Fraud is a very serious bylaw.

 

[bnm]

The law should be clear, CCTV images are taken and can be used for listed purposes according to the CCTV code, however should only be stored for purposes of crime prevention, should be stored for a set period of 28 days, no more, no less, should be accessible to those in the image, however all identification of anyone else in the image should be masked, should be accessible to law enforcement in that period, should be accessible by court order, and should not be transferred to another company.

Which law are you quoting here? Looks like the ICO guidance/code of practice to me. That guidance/code of practice was drawn up to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. That act says about the 'code':

A failure on the part of any person to act in accordance with any provision of the surveillance camera code does not of itself make that person liable to criminal or civil proceedings.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/part/2/chapter/1/enacted

The primary legislation, the Data Protection Act 1998, appears not to have breached. The exemptions for journalistic and public interest reasons are likely a very strong defence for Virgin/Stagecoach. IMHO, anyone featured in the unredacted images would have to allege, and then prove, substantial damage or substantial distress from the processing of their data (ie their image) for there to be the merest hint of successful legal action. Such action could befall any and all those who published the images, including this forum. Extremely unlikely.

 

[6Gman]

A Corbynista on twitter has just assured me that Corbyn "got a seat after 45 minutes when people got off at York".

Who needs HS2?

 

[miami]

A Corbynista on twitter has just assured me that Corbyn "got a seat after 45 minutes when people got off at York".

Who needs HS2?

There's an 1144 arrival into York from Leeds. People get off that train, then Corbyn gets a seat. I don't see the problem.

Unless you inferred that Corbyn's train took 45 minutes to get to York, which if it were nationalised (and steam powered to boot) would obviously be true

 

[matt_world2004]

Is fraud a crime?

Perhaps you should ask that to Richard Branson he was arrested for it.

 

[southern442]

I was indeed. In fact, I didn't mention their political views once.

As I have said twice before, by the same logic, the rise of Tony Blair, the Lib Dems, the Greens, Clement Atlee, Margaret Thatcher, Barack Obama, even the founding of the Labour party, could be compared to the rise of Donald Trump. But I have a feeling that ther must be a reason why you specifically compared Corbyn to the rise of Trump rather than any of these other people.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes the Guardian and the Mirror has always been really kind to Farage. The reason he was on Question time a lot was because he has a personality and is good tv as he does tend to answer most questions.

Corbyn has the personality of a whelk and is the most boring public speaker around liked only by his dedicated, misguided, mainly young and immature followers.

Why is it all about personality? Sure, personality gets more media attention, but can you tell me why will having a more prominent personality make you better at leading the country? A politician has policies, and if they are elected prime minister all they have to do is implement those policies as best as they can. I see no connection with personality.

His followers may be young, but to call them misguided and immature is very naive of you. Young people are the ones who are affected the most by political decisions, so if they want a new type of politics that they can benefit from in the long term, what is wrong with that? If they want to support Corbyn they are doing it because they believe that what he stands for is the best for the future of this country that they will be living in, and if that is how they wish to have the future of their country you cannot call them wrong or misguided or anything like that.

 

[Mordac]

How many coaches do the VTEC trains have? The longest trains we have on the West Coast are 11 coaches, which is still short of most long distance trains on the continent.

Is this really true? I know there's a few very long trains around, but most? FWIW, I don't think there's any train in Portugal that's that long, much less longer.

 

[southern442]

Is this really true? I know there's a few very long trains around, but most? FWIW, I don't think there's any train in Portugal that's that long, much less longer.

I think it does vary between countries. In France, most TGV's are 10 coaches long, and are often coupled together to form 20 coach trains. A notable example is TGV Duplex trains that have a massive capacity when two join together. Combine that with a much larger loading gauge and that makes our trains look rubbish. But as you said there are some countries that don't have trains as long as we do.

 

[HH]

Whereas Corbyn has from the start been portrayed as a dangerous ideologue who would lead the country to destruction, despite his politics being easily within the mainstream opinion of the pre-Thatcher years.

I see him mostly portrayed as incompetent, which seems accurate.

OTOH he has never had mainstream ideas - he supported Stalin, Hamas, the IRA. Funny old mainstream that...

 

[WatcherZero]

I've been puzzled by the timeline of this.

I'm not hugely familiar with the IC225 sets but my understanding is that Coach B is at the northern end of the set (Standard Class) and then proceed, roughly alphabetically via H (the buffet) to the First Class ( J, K & L ?).

The cctv shows Corbyn in Coach H at 11.07. I would interpret this as his boarding at the last minute at the buffers into First Class and then walking through. Boarding at Coach C - at the country end - seems a strange thing to do.

Just for clarity: I don't like Corbyn. I really dislike Branson. I don't care much for Souter either .
The use of the cctv (especially unpixelated) seems iffy.
But the Corbyn version would be more credible if it was consistent.

Yeah ive had trouble reconciling it too, the unedited Guardian video shows him boarding at C and walking the length while the train was in motion. Virgin said in their release the trains clock was 3 minutes fast.

It looks like he went nearly the length and then came back down again. The train departed at 11:00, Virgin released stills show him passing through Coach F at 11.07 Coach H at 11:08 and back to Coach H to sit down at 11:43.

They also say Corbyn filmed walking through Coach H at 11:07 then in the doorway of Coach H/Coach J.

 

[HH]

His followers may be young, but to call them misguided and immature is very naive of you. Young people are the ones who are affected the most by political decisions, so if they want a new type of politics that they can benefit from in the long term, what is wrong with that? If they want to support Corbyn they are doing it because they believe that what he stands for is the best for the future of this country that they will be living in, and if that is how they wish to have the future of their country you cannot call them wrong or misguided or anything like that.

Do you understand what the word naive means? What has living in the country to do with being misguided? As it happens, in this country even misguided people have the right to air their opinions, unlike some of the regimes wor Jezza has supported.

 

[southern442]

Do you understand what the word naive means?

Yes

What has living in the country to do with being misguided?

My point was that it would be unfair to call them misguided. People have their own ideals and choose to support people who share their ideals. You can't misguide yourself.

As it happens, in this country even misguided people have the right to air their opinions, unlike some of the regimes wor Jezza has supported.

I feel like this was some sort of pointless dig at someone you don't like, as I didn't mention anything along these lines, but go ahead and enlighten me of these these regimes 'Jezza' has supported.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If this original action was intended to raise the profile of Corbyn during the current leadership campaign, it certainly has succeeded.

 

[Mordac]

I think it does vary between countries. In France, most TGV's are 10 coaches long, and are often coupled together to form 20 coach trains. A notable example is TGV Duplex trains that have a massive capacity when two join together. Combine that with a much larger loading gauge and that makes our trains look rubbish. But as you said there are some countries that don't have trains as long as we do.

What frequency do these behemoths run at?

 

[ainsworth74]

If this original action was intended to raise the profile of Corbyn during the current leadership campaign, it certainly has succeeded.

Not sure he really needed to do that!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What frequency do these behemoths run at?

How many UK stations have platforms that can hold a 20 coach train?

 

[Taunton]

I see the Guido Fawkes website has illustrated the story with a fascinating picture of an empty train interior. They probably found it on the Web.

http://order-order.com/2016/08/24/traingate-spin-before-after/

But what is it. Someone here must be able to identify it. Is it London Underground F stock from the 1920s?

 

[jonty14]

It doesn't mean that they're occupied though. In my experience up to 20% of reserved seats are never taken.

If they are not occupied or taken then why can't the reservation cards be removed so it is clear the seats are available.

 

[6Gman]

How many UK stations have platforms that can hold a 20 coach train?

Very few! No.12 at Crewe?

 

[Darandio]

If they are not occupied or taken then why can't the reservation cards be removed so it is clear the seats are available.

Many onboard staff do, but you cannot seriously expect them to go and do it 7 minutes into the journey?

Besides, the seat could only be reserved for a later leg of the journey, that obviously cannot be removed.

 

[southern442]

What frequency do these behemoths run at?

Every two hours to my understanding. Not sure if they are all 20-car double decker though.

 

[ainsworth74]

How many UK stations have platforms that can hold a 20 coach train?

Hmm Platforms 1+20, 2+19 and 7+11 at Edinburgh Waverley probably could as you can fit two full VTEC sets on those sets of platforms. Darlington 1 and 4 probably come close (but I doubt they'd fit a full 20). York 3+4 probably come close as well.

 

[scott118]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ns-trip-to-see-reality-of-uk-rail-travel-live

The Guardian took the 11am London-Newcastle train the Labour leader says lacked free seats. Follow the updates on our trip, people’s reactions – and whether we got a seat

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I think it does vary between countries. In France, most TGV's are 10 coaches long, and are often coupled together to form 20 coach trains. A notable example is TGV Duplex trains that have a massive capacity when two join together. Combine that with a much larger loading gauge and that makes our trains look rubbish. But as you said there are some countries that don't have trains as long as we do.

An interesting point, but given that the capacity of the ECML trains could only be improved by massive rebuilding of the line, which would be a government project, the fact that the trains are nationalised or privatised makes little difference here.

At the moment the ECML is full and the trains are as long as it is possible to be and there is nothing that could be done short of turning the line into HS2.

I would like to know how Corbyn thinks nationalisation would make any different to the number of seats available, unless he is planning to allow the new BR to raise fares to cut use of the network as they did back in the day.

 

[absolutelymilk]

There's an 1144 arrival into York from Leeds. People get off that train, then Corbyn gets a seat. I don't see the problem.

Unless you inferred that Corbyn's train took 45 minutes to get to York, which if it were nationalised (and steam powered to boot) would obviously be true

It was the 11.00 train from King's Cross, whose first stop was at York at 12.51.

 

[Busaholic]

Corbyn now saying he was looking for a double seat for his wife and himself. So you get on a train not having reserved seats and think you should just find these doubles unoccupied. Shows the man's ignorance of life for the masses.

 

[miami]

It was the 11.00 train from King's Cross, whose first stop was at York at 12.51.

Yes, you've fallen for the falacy that

People alighted at York at 11.44. The fact that was nothing to do with Corbyn's train is irellevent, and you're clearly part of the anti-corbyn elite.