Jeremy Corbyn's Traingate

[Steveman]

Corbyn and Farage are very similar in terms of how, er, dedicated their supporters are. Corbyn can do something as idiotic as support the IRA and his supporters will deny it ever happened; Farage can Heil Hitler his way through school and his supports will deny it ever happened.

Farage, who was seemingly on Question Time every sodding week, had a very easy time of the press. Especially considering his past.

Yes the Guardian and the Mirror has always been really kind to Farage. The reason he was on Question time a lot was because he has a personality and is good tv as he does tend to answer most questions.

Corbyn has the personality of a whelk and is the most boring public speaker around liked only by his dedicated, misguided, mainly young and immature followers.

 

[urbophile]

Corbyn hasn't even come remotely close to the vilifying Farage has had for many many years.

No, the media's approach to Farage has been to portray him as a 'character', someone you could enjoy a pint with; just as Boris Johnson has been depicted as a harmless buffoon. The dangerous and sinister ideology that lurks behind both of them has been ignored, by and large.

Whereas Corbyn has from the start been portrayed as a dangerous ideologue who would lead the country to destruction, despite his politics being easily within the mainstream opinion of the pre-Thatcher years.

If there were obviously plenty of spare seats on this train, why were so many other people standing or sitting in the lobbies? They weren't making political points, just desperate to travel and furious at the overcrowding.

How many coaches do the VTEC trains have? The longest trains we have on the West Coast are 11 coaches, which is still short of most long distance trains on the continent.

 

[EM2]

he responded claiming he was suffering due to the overcrowding without checking if the seats were empty and without checking his facts and his team, supporters and campaign manager have all done the same since and thus have all proven how unfit him and his comrades are to run a country.

Did he?
In the original video clip, he said:

"This is a problem that many passengers face every day, commuters and long-distance travellers. Today this train is completely ram-packed.
"The staff are absolutely brilliant, working really hard to help everybody.
"The reality is there are not enough trains, we need more of them - and they're also incredibly expensive."

Apart from his definition of ram-packed, which may well differ from yours, mine or Richard Branson's, has he said that he's 'suffering'? Ha she said he won't be able to get a seat for the entire journey? No.
Nothing that he has said there is inaccurate.

 

[embers25]

Did he?
In the original video clip, he said:

Apart from his definition of ram-packed, which may well differ from yours, mine or Richard Branson's, has he said that he's 'suffering'? Ha she said he won't be able to get a seat for the entire journey? No.
Nothing that he has said there is inaccurate.

Try ram-packed as it wasn't...or what is your definition of ram-packed??!!! You are ridiculously deluded and as I said before which you carefully chose to ignore, this is all academic now after everything else that happened today which is a far bigger issue than anything that happened on the day and before someone says it is as important as discussing the NHS as we are talking about the complete obliteration of any shred of credibility Corbyn claiming to have in just 24 hours and that matters because deluded folk like you want him to run our country. He tried and failed to do damage to Virgin and when he failed he lied and his team lied even more and then his supporters lied even more that that and then people like you try to justify all their actions with posts like the last couple you have made and so the concept of him being in charge of the country for 5 years just became even more scary than we already knew it was. The NHS issue we can't fix overnight, we can fix the Corbyn issue and kick his lying a** into political oblivion where it becomes and throw Manuel Cortes there too for supporting him. I also hope the guard gets disciplined for offering the first class upgrade to him as I'm sure there are numerous people every day who travel on that guards trains and have to stand and have they all been offered upgrades for standing (even if it was necessary to stand which in this case it clearly wasn't) as I'm sure they all haven't and before someone says that they may have been then that's still disciplinary action as that is against policy as why buy a first class ticket in peak if the guard will just upgrade you anyway if you are standing.

 

[Harbornite]

Did he?


Apart from his definition of ram-packed, which may well differ from yours, mine or Richard Branson's,
Nothing that he has said there is inaccurate.

Well he inferred that he was unable to get a seat by sitting on the floor and saying the train was ram-packed. This is inaccurate.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Try ram-packed as it wasn't...or what is your definition of ram-packed??!!!

Everyone has a different definition of busy, or even "ram-packed", and it is a completely subjective opinion.

Compared to trains in India or Japan even the busiest London commuter train is quiet.

Some people perceive busy if they can't get on, some perceive it if they're having to stand, some perceive busy if they can't sit next to their travel companion. It's entirely subjective.

That train certainly isn't the busiest I've seen VTEC trains, but I'd consider any train where the vast majority of seats are reserved (even if nobody is in them) and you can't sit with your travel companion as "very busy". YMMV.

I don't see any lies. Corbyn was sitting on the floor because he didn't have a seat. The staff were working really hard to help everybody- as was proven by the fact he got a seat. There aren't enough trains, as anyone who's been on the 1819 on a Bank Holiday Friday will tell you. And they are hideously expensive, more so since Saint Richard got involved.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes the Guardian and the Mirror has always been really kind to Farage. The reason he was on Question time a lot was because he has a personality and is good tv as he does tend to answer most questions.

The Guardian and the Mirror were mean to Farage? Oh dear. The Mirror and Guardian's circulation combined is barely half that of The Sun.

And The Sun were that far up Farage's fundament they could probably lick his tonsils clean.

 

[EM2]

Try ram-packed as it wasn't...or what is your definition of ram-packed??!!! You are ridiculously deluded and as I said before which you carefully chose to ignore, this is all academic now after everything else that happened today which is a far bigger issue than anything that happened on the day and before someone says it is as important as discussing the NHS as we are talking about the complete obliteration of any shred of credibility Corbyn claiming to have in just 24 hours and that matters because deluded folk like you want him to run our country. He tried and failed to do damage to Virgin and when he failed he lied and his team lied even more and then his supporters lied even more that that and then people like you try to justify all their actions with posts like the last couple you have made and so the concept of him being in charge of the country for 5 years just became even more scary than we already knew it was. The NHS issue we can;t fix overnight, we can fix the Corbyn issue and kick his lying ass into political oblivion where it becomes and throw Manuel Cortes there too for supporting him.

1. To me, ram-packed means the GOBLin or TfL Rail in the peaks. But as I said, it means different things to different people. A Eurostar with one spare seat could legitimately be referred to as ram-packed, for example.
2. People being vilified for things that they haven't actually said or done is not academic. It's evidence of how powerful the media and big corporations in this country actually are, and something that should worry everyone.
3. I haven't ignored anything. All I have done is actually look at evidence, things that I can see to be true.
4. I don't want Corbyn to run the country. I don't even support Labour.
5. You still haven't proven that there were any lies.
6. Again, I haven't justified anything. I choose to believe evidence and facts, things that can actually be proved.
7. Please try and use some punctuation.

 

[infobleep]

From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37173048 go to end of the first minute of the radio clip (second one down) and even his supporters have gotten U-turning in a matter of seconds down to a fine art!!! Actually 3rd clip around 1 minute is even better where his campaign manager says all seats were reserved with bags and then that Jeremy was carrying 2 cups of coffee (not visible in the cctv) and bizarrely he wanted a seat to "get his head down before that event" as "he'd had quite a long day".....Three things there...firstly that 11am is considered a long day, secondly who drink coffee before sleep and thirdly Corbyn contradicts this version as he said he wanted to sit down and talk with his wife to prepare for the event....even his own team can't agree!!! Ohh even better is a little later in the campaign manager snippet is when he said he couldn't even see 1 seat together....sigh

I've been trying to give Corbyn the benefit of the doubt as he does get a lot of bad press, some of it Needless I reckon but it seems I can't.

However there is the argument that two wrongs don't make a right or doing something illegal because someone else said something doesn't make it legal. I don't know the legal position of the CCTV but if they shouldn't have legally issued it then they shouldn't have done.

There is enough messages from TOCs saying riding a bicycle or skateboard is dangerous and illegal. The CCTV might not be dangerous but if it's illegal it doesn't matter if it's dangerous or not.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[EM2]

Well he inferred that he was unable to get a seat by sitting on the floor and saying the train was ram-packed. This is inaccurate.

But he did not actually state that, that's your inference from what he said.
If he had said 'You find me sitting on the floor of this train, as it's completely ram-packed, and there is not a seat to be found anywhere', then you would have a point.

 

[Tetchytyke]

1. To me, ram-packed means the GOBLin or TfL Rail in the peaks. But as I said, it means different things to different people.

It means different things to different types of journey too.

8.30am on the Northern Line and it's quiet if I can wedge myself in someone's armpit.

11am on an off-peak intercity train and it's ram-packed if most seats are reserved and it's impossible to find two seats together.

 

[Howardh]

The questions over the use of the CCTV image, whether pax be fuzzed out or not, is one I asked on here a while ago.
It appears Virgin may have fallen foul of the Data Protection Act, if not I expect to see clips of politicians, celebrities and uncle Joe Public picking their nose on TV's "Let's Have A Cheap Laugh At Someone Picking Their Nose (because it's easy and we can't afford to make proper programmes)" series.
Or even better, when they are sat next so someone they shouldn't be with...

 

[Darandio]

if not I expect to see clips of politicians, celebrities and uncle Joe Public picking their nose on TV's "Let's Have A Cheap Laugh At Someone Picking Their Nose (because it's easy and we can't afford to make proper programmes)" series.

I'm guessing you don't watch Channel 5?

 

[embers25]

Everyone has a different definition of busy, or even "ram-packed", and it is a completely subjective opinion.

Compared to trains in India or Japan even the busiest London commuter train is quiet.

Some people perceive busy if they can't get on, some perceive it if they're having to stand, some perceive busy if they can't sit next to their travel companion. It's entirely subjective.

That train certainly isn't the busiest I've seen VTEC trains, but I'd consider any train where the vast majority of seats are reserved (even if nobody is in them) and you can't sit with your travel companion as "very busy". YMMV.

I don't see any lies. Corbyn was sitting on the floor because he didn't have a seat. The staff were working really hard to help everybody- as was proven by the fact he got a seat. There aren't enough trains, as anyone who's been on the 1819 on a Bank Holiday Friday will tell you. And they are hideously expensive, more so since Saint Richard got involved.

Wow just as delusional as EM2. Trains have always been overcrowded on that line before and after electrification and no-one is arguing that point. We are pointing out that Corbyn picked one of the least busy trains to make that point and he could have chosen many other words than "completely ram packed" not even just ram packed but didn't and it is academic now after what he and his team did and said today. The press attacks are now 100% justified because if he and his team can't get their story straight on an issue as simple as this what hope do they have with complicated foreign policy....No we will not trade with Iran, but make sure you ask the Iranian diplomat how much he would sell that for...sigh

 

[miami]

The questions over the use of the CCTV image, whether pax be fuzzed out or not, is one I asked on here a while ago.
It appears Virgin may have fallen foul of the Data Protection Act, if not I expect to see clips of politicians, celebrities and uncle Joe Public picking their nose on TV's "Let's Have A Cheap Laugh At Someone Picking Their Nose (because it's easy and we can't afford to make proper programmes)" series.
Or even better, when they are sat next so someone they shouldn't be with...

Imagine you were someone on that picture that Arctic posted who was on a train to newcastle for a dirty weekend, rather than off ill like you claimed to be to work, and you walk in to work to find your p45. Or perhaps you've told your husband you're on a business trip, but in actual fact you are sneaking off with the gardener?

 

[Howardh]

Imagine you were someone on that picture that Arctic posted who was on a train to newcastle for a dirty weekend, rather than off ill like you claimed to be to work, and you walk in to work to find your p45. Or perhaps you've told your husband you're on a business trip, but in actual fact you are sneaking off with the gardener?

Exactly. There's a difference between people's privacy and tracking down those breaking the law.
If someone on the train was ripping up the seats, I'd expect his/her face to be available for us to recognise and name. However if the same one was snuggling up to someone not their partner, it's none of our business. Even if it's a leading politician - in France if a media outlet did that they'd be kicked all over the show.
"Privacy is Privacy" should be a soundbite...

Does raise the question if I took a photo of a park, and someone's in view, can I publish that photo? Well, a train's CCTV is run by that company and they have regulatons to adhere to - out of that environment is public space. Discuss?

 

[backontrack]

It means different things to different types of journey too.

8.30am on the Northern Line and it's quiet if I can wedge myself in someone's armpit.

11am on an off-peak intercity train and it's ram-packed if most seats are reserved and it's impossible to find two seats together.

I've been on off-peak intercity trains where it's been impossible to find a seat! Corbyn's train certainly wasn't ram-packed, let me tell you that - and although I agree with his statements on Virgin, he'd have done much better had he instead held a press conference on the platform instead of the weak publicity stunt he pulled in the end.

 

[6Gman]

You're right we're all seeing things and 20 or so people could have all "gone to the toilet" or "reserved" them with their bags!!! Did Corbyn ask any of these mysterious people...No!

Perhaps the "empty" seats were actually occupied by jockeys going to York Races? That's why we can't see them over the seat backs!

 

[EM2]

Wow just as delusional as EM2.

What delusions am I suffering from?

 

[JamesRowden]

Imagine you were someone on that picture that Arctic posted who was on a train to newcastle for a dirty weekend, rather than off ill like you claimed to be to work, and you walk in to work to find your p45. Or perhaps you've told your husband you're on a business trip, but in actual fact you are sneaking off with the gardener?

Just don't cheat people. I would infact like those cheats in your scenarios to be found out.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but just read a comment from one of the Corynistas saying that she saw him get on a coach labelled coach A and walked the length of the train starting at the front and it was true there was no seats.

As far as I'm aware Coach A does not exist on VTEC? It's the loco?

 

[miami]

Just don't cheat people. I would infact like those cheats in your scenarios to be found out.

You may, however that's not what CCTV is for. Perhaps the excuse was "sorry I can't come to aunt mildred's birthday, I've got work things", again I'm sure you'd delight in that family's misery.

Another one then, how about someone who's trying to escape from an abusive ex, said ex now knows she's probably hiding out with her aunt in York, rather than her mother in Bristol.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Apologies if this has already been covered, but just read a comment from one of the Corynistas saying that she saw him get on a coach labelled coach A and walked the length of the train starting at the front and it was true there was no seats.

As far as I'm aware Coach A does not exist on VTEC? It's the loco?

Normally when I board a train I board at the first standard-class coach, then head up train looking for a table seat (i.e. one with a socket and room to open a laptop lid). If there's nothing in the unreserved seats I'll then proceed through the train. By the time I reach the quiet coach at the far end, I then return, it's then guesswork to determine which of the unoccupied, yet reserved, seats will be free upon departure, however people often board the train just before departure, walk up (past the people blocking aisles while they attempt to stow their reasonable baggage in tiny racks), perhaps stop off at the buffet for 15 minutes to buy something before it runs out, and finally arrive at their seat.

When choosing a reserved seat I'm always on tenterhooks for the first 20 minutes - no point in concentrating on work rest or play when you could be booted out at any point - and I consider myself fairly train-saavy, and not a member of the london-centric elite like Corbyn that is barely aware of life outside the M25.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but just read a comment from one of the Corynistas saying that she saw him get on a coach labelled coach A and walked the length of the train starting at the front and it was true there was no seats.

As far as I'm aware Coach A does not exist on VTEC? It's the loco?

You are correct.

 

[backontrack]

When choosing a reserved seat I'm always on tenterhooks for the first 20 minutes - no point in concentrating on work rest or play when you could be booted out at any point - and I consider myself fairly train-saavy, and not a member of the london-centric elite like Corbyn that is barely aware of life outside the M25.

Well said.

 

[JamesRowden]

You may, however that's not what CCTV is for. Perhaps the excuse was "sorry I can't come to aunt mildred's birthday, I've got work things", again I'm sure you'd delight in that family's misery.

Another one then, how about someone who's trying to escape from an abusive ex, said ex now knows she's probably hiding out with her aunt in York, rather than her mother in Bristol.

I think you need to look at things in perspective by counting both the benefits and the downsides, not just the downsides.

 

[westv]

Basically Corbyn tried to score political points but it's ended up biting him on the bum.

 

[WatcherZero]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but just read a comment from one of the Corynistas saying that she saw him get on a coach labelled coach A and walked the length of the train starting at the front and it was true there was no seats.

As far as I'm aware Coach A does not exist on VTEC? It's the loco?

No coach A and he boarded coach C.

 

[miami]

I think you need to look at things in perspective by counting both the benefits and the downsides, not just the downsides.

And the benefits of releasing these pictures?

CCTV has strong benefits in the detection and perhaps the deterrence of crime. However helping Corbyn embarrass himself is not something that the CCTV code

Perhaps Virgin Trains East Coast should have sued for defamation and released the images as part of their case. Instead they've shown a mockery of the data protection and cctv principles, and makes you wonder what else this train operating company ignores in the name of PR?

 

[F Great Eastern]

No coach A and he boarded coach C.

That's my point - his cronies and followers are just as bad as him.

Not scared to fabricate a thing or two to help their idol out.

 

[JamesRowden]

And the benefits of releasing these pictures?

CCTV has strong benefits in the detection and perhaps the deterrence of crime. However helping Corbyn embarrass himself is not something that the CCTV code

Perhaps Virgin Trains East Coast should have sued for defamation and released the images as part of their case. Instead they've shown a mockery of the data protection and cctv principles, and makes you wonder what else this train operating company ignores in the name of PR?

I'm questioning what the law should be, not whether VTEC were correct or wrong in this case considering existing law.

 

[6Gman]

No coach A and he boarded coach C.

I've been puzzled by the timeline of this.

I'm not hugely familiar with the IC225 sets but my understanding is that Coach B is at the northern end of the set (Standard Class) and then proceed, roughly alphabetically via H (the buffet) to the First Class ( J, K & L ?).

The cctv shows Corbyn in Coach H at 11.07. I would interpret this as his boarding at the last minute at the buffers into First Class and then walking through. Boarding at Coach C - at the country end - seems a strange thing to do.

Just for clarity: I don't like Corbyn. I really dislike Branson. I don't care much for Souter either .
The use of the cctv (especially unpixelated) seems iffy.
But the Corbyn version would be more credible if it was consistent.