Jeremy Corbyn's Traingate

[3141]

Indeed I did, in response to a statement that a reserved seat that was unoccupied fifteen minutes after departure could be taken by someone who had not reserved it.

Your answer #767 does not prove that you *know* that the seats are free.

I asked how you (the global 'you') *know* that the seats are free.
You answered with a list of steps that you (personally) would take.
It is therefore reasonable for me to assume that those steps are how you would *know* that the seats are free.

Not sure if "you" in the last sentence is the "global you" or me personally, but if I or any other person sat in a seat with a reserved ticket and no-one came along during the journey and said "Excuse me, that seat is mine" I think we could reasonably say it had been free. However, I wouldn't have *known* (with or without the mysterious asterisks) until I got off. I'd be damned annoyed if instead I'd stood in the nearest vestibule and watched that seat remain unoccupied throughout. J. Corbyn and co. could have tried sitting down as well.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Stagecoach bending the truth.

Well I'm shocked.

I think it was more Virgin than Stagecoach who wanted this published. Presumably Stagecoach would have given the nod for it to happen though.

VTEC made one tweet themselves about it and it wasn't sent through Conversocial which is their usual tool. Also David Horne didn't retweet it and he retweets just about anything positive about VTEC.

Yep. They are both as bad as each other. (Stagecoach and MPs)

Neither side comes out looking positive on this one.

That is something I hope most people can agree on. Whether you love or hate Corbyn it was a stupid thing to publish saying that nationalisation would solve overcrowding on a British Rail InterCity 225, but it was a bad decision to also publish the CCTV coverage (even if it was completely honest). The classy response would be to say something like "we know our trains can be very popular at busy times which is why we offer reservations free of charge, we're pleased to announce that our excellent on-board team were able to help My Corbyn find some empty seats"

 

[CentralTrainer]

That isnt an opinion. Seats were vacant. He chose not to sit in them. That is a fact. An opinion is that Corbyn is a clown.







Sorry I am not a paid up cult member like many of you.

Replies like this render ANY opinion or contribution from you on this subject utterly null and void.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jon0844]

My opinion on this whole thing:

The train was busy.

He sat down to be filmed about how ram packed it was.

There were some seats. It can be debated how many (as many could have been occupied by children and/or midgets) but ultimately he found seats, perhaps with help of the train manager and some people moving, possibly upgraded to first class.

The train allowed for people to walk through the train and visit the cafe bar, including anyone that was upgraded to first class. It was suggested Jeremy was offered an upgrade, but presumably refused as he couldn't be seen to occupy such an area!

The person who did the original film was very careful to report the story in a certain way.

One year on, the same person it seems has tried to vindicate himself through a media organisation taking on the evil MSM, but with likely affiliations to the Labour party or Momentum.

The video doesn't really help prove the train was ram packed, just busy (as per the first sentence).

Another train may have been busier and could have been used instead, but this was probably a 'great idea' thought up on the spot.

Jeremy was likely talked into this great idea and now wishes he hadn't done it, and is probably not best pleased that this video exists to bring up the whole story again.

He wanted to make a point, and could have done so without any of this fuss by just doing some basic planning and getting a genuinely crush loaded train where he could barely get on and had to stand for 2 or 3 hours, unable to even go to the toilet.

Even if he had, that still wouldn't have been representative of the railway as a whole so people could still have pointed this out.

Those who vote Labour and like Jeremy Corbyn will stand by Jeremy, and blame the Tories for being behind this - and attacking evil capitalist Richard Branson.

Those who vote Labour and don't like Corbyn will probably stay quiet.

Those who don't vote Labour will likely make the most of this and argue forever more, making this whole saga continue for years.

We'll one day come to realise that all these new media organisations trying to kill off the fake news mainstream media are full of agendas themselves and should be treated with extreme caution even if it fits your own beliefs.

(Did I miss anything?)

 

[Wivenswold]

When you consider the near weekly controversies in Westminster, it does make you wonder why this story still has legs.

Anyone keeping up with politics will be aware of how much of a shambles our Brexit negotiating team are turning out to be. But hey, that's just the future of every single one of us, why not hark back to previous PR gaffs.

 

[Failed Unit]

Personally I wish he had chosen to make the film about the following situation that happens every Saturday....

This is WGC. Along comes a train it is full. Jeremy can't get on along with about 50 other people even with first class declassified.

Travel on following slow train interviews people at Hatfield and potters bar who all say it is always like this and they don't travel at weekends unless they have no alternative.

Pass Hornsey and see lots of spare coaches with SDO that could make services into 8 car.

At the time they could have even films consecutive train cancellations.

Much more powerful combined with the fact GTR were put in place under the Tories.

 

[jon0844]

When you consider the near weekly controversies in Westminster, it does make you wonder why this story still has legs.

Anyone keeping up with politics will be aware of how much of a shambles our Brexit negotiating team are turning out to be. But hey, that's just the future of every single one of us, why not hark back to previous PR gaffs.

It has legs because people are using this new video, produced by the original filmmaker it would seem, to show that Virgin lied.. And Virgin is run by Richard Branson, a capitalist, who therefore is in cahoots with the Tories.

Thus the Tories did it.

Seriously, that's what some people are saying.

And as such, it will remain a 'story' for a while yet.

 

[jayah]

The classy response would be to say something like "we know our trains can be very popular at busy times which is why we offer reservations free of charge, we're pleased to announce that our excellent on-board team were able to help My Corbyn find some empty seats"

This is what any other company would have done.

Sadly the political angle on nationalisation and Branson's never ending fued with British Airways resulted in an agenda, and they waited around 2 weeks before using the story to knock B.A out of the news as they flew our medal winners back from Rio.

 

[jayah]

I'm saying that the unreserved seats were full. It's too risky politically for Corbyn to sit in a reserved seat.

Lord Mandelson always sits in 1A when he flies and whoever had booked it has to sit elsewhere. With VVIP status the cabin crew won't even ask him to move.

It is his favourite seat apparently.

 

[DarloRich]

Replies like this render ANY opinion or contribution from you on this subject utterly null and void.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why? because you don't like it? I know that being a paid up member of cult Corbyn means you have to seek a conspiracy everywhere but the truth here is that it was an own goal.

Why not just take a trip on one of the honestly "ram packed" trains that run everyday and deliver a PR victory or rail ownership?

Personally I wish he had chosen to make the film about the following situation that happens every Saturday....

This is WGC. Along comes a train it is full. Jeremy can't get on along with about 50 other people even with first class declassified.

Travel on following slow train interviews people at Hatfield and potters bar who all say it is always like this and they don't travel at weekends unless they have no alternative.

Pass Hornsey and see lots of spare coaches with SDO that could make services into 8 car.

At the time they could have even films consecutive train cancellations.

Much more powerful combined with the fact GTR were put in place under the Tories.

Exactly - it is the rank amateurish fakery of the whole thing that really boils my urine. There are so many open goals on this point that it is vastly frustrating that Team Corbyn managed to score an own goal! An opportunity to land blows on a key policy item lost.

 

[mpthomson]

I think it was more Virgin than Stagecoach who wanted this published. Presumably Stagecoach would have given the nod for it to happen though.

VTEC made one tweet themselves about it and it wasn't sent through Conversocial which is their usual tool. Also David Horne didn't retweet it and he retweets just about anything positive about VTEC.



That is something I hope most people can agree on. Whether you love or hate Corbyn it was a stupid thing to publish saying that nationalisation would solve overcrowding on a British Rail InterCity 225, but it was a bad decision to also publish the CCTV coverage (even if it was completely honest). The classy response would be to say something like "we know our trains can be very popular at busy times which is why we offer reservations free of charge, we're pleased to announce that our excellent on-board team were able to help My Corbyn find some empty seats"

But that doesn't address the issue that Corbyn told a great big whopping fib about the state of the train. He lied about it for political gain, and VTEC have every right to push back about that. Your 'classy explanation' accepts the fact that JC was telling the truth as a starting point when he wasn't.

 

[mpthomson]

This is what any other company would have done.

Sadly the political angle on nationalisation and Branson's never ending fued with British Airways resulted in an agenda, and they waited around 2 weeks before using the story to knock B.A out of the news as they flew our medal winners back from Rio.

No they wouldn't as to do so would be to admit that the film is correct, when it clearly isn't. Virgin are a 10% stakeholder in VTEC, and as such don't control what PR goes out. This is a joint Virgin/Stagecoach decision to push back, and rightly so as Corbyn lied about how busy the train was. It was a calculated, even if spontaneously decided, deception that he and the Momentum activist who filmed it tried to use to make a political point.

Of course VTEC are going to show it for what it was. Why wouldn't they? The film misrepresents the reality of what had happened. They'd have done it if any politician of any colour had tried that, Branson/Souter et al are no friends of the Conservatives.

 

[mpthomson]

Lord Mandelson always sits in 1A when he flies and whoever had booked it has to sit elsewhere. With VVIP status the cabin crew won't even ask him to move.

It is his favourite seat apparently.

I'd love to see the cat fight that would have ensued if he'd tried that when Cilla Black was alive!

 

[JetStream]

Why? because you don't like it? I know that being a paid up member of cult Corbyn means you have to seek a conspiracy everywhere but the truth here is that it was an own goal.

Why not just take a trip on one of the honestly "ram packed" trains that run everyday and deliver a PR victory or rail ownership?



Exactly - it is the rank amateurish fakery of the whole thing that really boils my urine. There are so many open goals on this point that it is vastly frustrating that Team Corbyn managed to score an own goal! An opportunity to land blows on a key policy item lost.

As a Labour Member who's not particularly fond of Corbyn but recognises the good he's done, I agree with your POV.

In having two of his fanatics/self-publicising acolytes continue to push this non-story makes me want rid of him again. The fact it's pushed as an attack on Branson/defending Saint Jeremy rather than pushing the renationalisation policy just reinforces my belief.

 

[mpthomson]

Don't train loading figures have to provided to DfT? DfT would have to comply with a FOI request.

I suspect only as a %age, even if they did have it at that point. Even if they had provided that figure I strongly doubt that it would have supported the film maker's point of view, quite the opposite.

CCTV footage, especially belonging to a private organisation, wouldn't be covered by an FOI request for Data Protection reasons.

 

[bramling]

Personally I wish he had chosen to make the film about the following situation that happens every Saturday....

This is WGC. Along comes a train it is full. Jeremy can't get on along with about 50 other people even with first class declassified.

Travel on following slow train interviews people at Hatfield and potters bar who all say it is always like this and they don't travel at weekends unless they have no alternative.

Pass Hornsey and see lots of spare coaches with SDO that could make services into 8 car.

At the time they could have even films consecutive train cancellations.

Much more powerful combined with the fact GTR were put in place under the Tories.

Great post. Spot on.

As far as Labour go, in 97 it was possible to make an easy journey by train to London on a weekend, but by 2010 it had become a problem. Meanwhile, many round here with longer memories will recall the A1(M) was about to be widened in May 97, a project promptly cancelled by Two-Jags Prescott. Many have died on the Welwyn-Stevenage section in the two decades since that dubious decision.

I suspect this is the sort of thing which makes people drift away from Labour as they get older. Historically Labour talk the talk and people like what they hear, but people quickly find that when they're in government things quickly do not match the rhetoric. Even without the Corbyn influence, most people I know simply associate Labour with fiscal incompetence, massive unwanted immigration and two flawed wars (one probably right to pursue but badly executed, and one which was flawed from start to finish).

 

[infobleep]

Let's go back to the original soundbite, in which Jeremy Corbyn said "Today this train is completely ram-packed." Whatever was you choose to look at the seating situation, this was obviously untrue.

Quite, which is why he should have travelled on the 7.56 East Croydon to Victoria. However to do that he'd actually have to endure ram packed conditions. Perhaps he wouldn't like to experience that.

 

[mpthomson]

and two flawed wars (one probably right to pursue but badly executed, and one which was flawed from start to finish).

Very off topic I know, but I'd agree with that, except for the 'badly executed' comment re the Afghanistan conflict. As someone who fought in it as a mid level commissioned officer I'd prefer badly planned.

There was nothing wrong with the execution of the plans on the ground and in the air by those who were there to do that and there were some significant security improvements in Helmand when I was there, markets re-opening, girls going to school etc, but there were major doctrinal issues at high levels ie what are we trying to do and why were we trying to do it and particularly what the right conditions for withdrawal were and how do we ensure continuity of improved security when we do.

It's caused an awful lot of soul-searching amongst those who are paid to do so and I don't think we've had all the fallout from that yet in military terms.

Anyway, I digress....

 

[bramling]

Very off topic I know, but I'd agree with that, except for the 'badly executed' comment re the Afghanistan conflict. As someone who fought in it as a mid level commissioned officer I'd prefer badly planned.

There was nothing wrong with the execution of the plans on the ground and in the air by those who were there to do that and there were some significant security improvements in Helmand when I was there, markets re-opening, girls going to school etc, but there were major doctrinal issues at high levels ie what are we trying to do and why were we trying to do it and particularly what the right conditions for withdrawal were and how do we ensure continuity of improved security when we do.

It's caused an awful lot of soul-searching amongst those who are paid to do so and I don't think we've had all the fallout from that yet in military terms.

Anyway, I digress....

A very fair point - I was indeed attempting to refer more to the planning side of things, so apologies for an imprecise choice of word.

 

[Adlington]

Back to the topic....

New footage has been published of the "traingate" journey that triggered a row involving Jeremy Corbyn and Sir Richard Branson last year.

A year ago, Mr Corbyn was filmed sitting on the floor of a train he said was "ram-packed".

Virgin Trains then released CCTV images and footage it said showed the Labour leader walking past empty seats.

In the newly-released CCTV, people can be seen sitting on the floor between the carriages.

It was released by pro-Corbyn filmmaker Yannis Mendez, whose original film of the Labour leader sitting on the floor sparked the debate.

When questioned by journalists at the height of the row last year, the Labour leader said he had been looking for two empty seats together so he could sit with his wife.

Virgin Trains has not disputed the service was crowded but said at the time it took issue with the suggestion Mr Corbyn had been unable to find a seat.

Neither Virgin Trains nor the Labour leadership have commented on the latest video.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41036937

 

[Merthyr Imp]

In my experience there often seem to be some who choose to sit on the floor even when there are empty seats. Never understood why.

 

[PHILIPE]

In my experience there often seem to be some who choose to sit on the floor even when there are empty seats. Never understood why.

I once opened a door on the outside in order to board an HST and a young lad who preferred to sit on the floor in the vestibule all but fell out.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Proves nothing, as has been said, there are quite a few who sit in the vestibules, even when there are seats spare.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

In my experience there often seem to be some who choose to sit on the floor even when there are empty seats. Never understood why.

It is very annoying - makes it hard to get through with bags and people board the train, see folk sitting in the vestibules and then congregate there thinking the train is full.

 

[jon0844]

Proves nothing, as has been said, there are quite a few who sit in the vestibules, even when there are seats spare.

When I used to sit in an office all day, I often stood on the train just to stretch my legs. I could do this on a totally empty train.

Even now for a few stops on a tube I won't usually bother to sit, and on trains I can do the same.

A seat is always available somewhere in most cases.

The difference is I don't claim the train to be full because I stood.

And groups that can't sit together, or get a table, often seem to sit in the vestibules by choice. Perhaps they want to be near their backpacks (often these groups are students that look like they're travelling from hostel to hostel, or camping) and actually like the privacy that you can get in the vestibule on intercity trains.

It's not a recent thing. Happened in the 80s under British Rail!

But if you were doing a film and wanted to show overcrowding, people sitting near the toilets are easy proof of overcrowding.

Now had it been a commuter train at 7 or 8am then things would be somewhat different.

 

[158756]

Corbyn might want to tell us that nationalisation would solve all the railway's problems, but what can be done about a crowded VTEC service? Other than HS2, what can you do? The line is full, the train is at maximum length, until longer trains, already ordered, arrive.

The only thing you could do would be to scrap the advance fares and price people off the trains. But Labour's vision of nationalisation is that fares will be cheaper.

 

[jon0844]

Lower prices would clearly mean more people would travel, so that's a nonstarter.

More trains would mean having to raise fares OR the taxpayer funds it. And if that was openly stated as the intention then fine. People can vote on such a proposal and if they want the state to subsidise rail travel more, great.

But I am pretty sure people think a return to BR would mean lowering the money the state pays out, and once people realise all the money doesn't go to a foreign owned company CEO that travels everywhere in a limo, they might wake up and realise that what they want and how to get it aren't necessarily the same thing.

Let's be honest, it's for ideological reasons and nothing more. Again, if Labour was open and honest then no problem.

 

[WatcherZero]

Corbyn himself said the week after the initial claim that he walked past empty single seats because he wanted to find an empty pair of seats together where he could sit alongside his wife and that ultimately he chose the vestibule alongside the film crew while his wife took seats.

From the horses mouth is as definitive as you can get.

 

[jon0844]

People are ignoring Corbyn, which is particularly funny.

The video maker wants to restore his credibility and has obviously made it a personal mission for a year to clear his name. I don't see him having done so because the train still isn't what I'd consider full.

Of course that's open to interpretation, but there is a point where a train is considered full and standing, or crush loaded, and this was far from either. But hey, when you see people sitting on the floor, that means it must be full and if it suits your viewpoint you just keep on saying that.

I bet JC isn't best pleased he's involved again for the sake of the vanity of a young activist 'journalist'. But I doubt he'll say anything as he doesn't seem to like the confrontation that comes from being firm, and perhaps sometimes just telling people to shut up as it does more harm than good.

Traingate was surely long forgotten about until now?

 

[Michael.Y]

The Corbynista lemmings will still defend him, even as he proves how inept, how opportunistic and how double-tongued he really is.