Javelin Preview

[Hampshire Unit]

Hi can anyone tell me if Priv passes or priv reduced tickets are going to be valid on the SouthEastern preview runs of the Javelin? Sorry to call it the Javelin but it looks as if that name is going to stick as even the press are using it now.

 

[Edvid]

For reasons I can't fathom they won't. However I understand that a limited group of railway staff can ride this week's (non-public) preview services for free if they have the required ID.

 

[dan_atki]

For reasons I can't fathom they won't.

Have you seen or been told anything with regard to this?

Playing about with webTIS (no HS1 fares showing on Avantix) shows that one fare is an Anytime Day Return (route 'Plus High Speed').

If this is indeed the case then Priv discounts should apply to the fare - if they didn't want them to then they should have (in my opinion) made a different fare type for this route.
Railcard discounts apply to the fares and Southeastern also explictly state this on their site.

Regarding Govia and whether they'd allow free travel for their employees on the services is upto them - they'd have to explicitly say no to all their staff as the pass would bear the Southeastern logo and the service is, at the end of the day, operated by Southeastern. Logic suggests here that unless told otherwise the pass would be valid.

 

[glynn80]

However I understand that a limited group of railway staff can ride this week's (non-public) preview services for free if they have the required ID.

Only a limited number of railway staff have been given the oppourtunity to travel on the preview services.


High speed preview services 22- 26th June

We will be operating the High speed ‘preview service’ timetable between 22nd - 26th June in Non – Passenger service to test the timetable before we open up the services to the public on 29th June.

Between these dates we need to test all aspects of the train service and facilities at Ebbsfleet and St Pancras so we will be inviting our staff, other Train Operators staff and partner staff to use the service free of charge for this one week only and help us make sure everything will run smoothly when preview services begin the following week.

See below a list of those organisations who have been invited to test the service and method of ID required to again access to trains and Ashford, Ebbsfleet and St Pancras International stations.

Organisation- Location- ID requirements
Southeastern Staff- All- Southeastern photo ID
Network Rail (CTRL)- ALL- Network Rail photo ID
Eurostar- STP, EBB, AFK- Eurostar photo ID
East Midlands Trains- STP- EMT photo ID
First Capital Connect- STP- FCC photo ID
BTP- All- BTP photo ID
HS1- All- HS1 ID
NCP- EBB- NCP ID


(Ta to The Irish Driver)

 

[Edvid]

Have you seen or been told anything with regard to this?

A friend of mine sent this to me (I understand this internal Eurostar memo is on RailChat):

Travel High Speed on Southeastern - Employee Preview Offer

Southeastern are offering all Eurostar employees the opportunity to preview their new high-speed train service for free next week. This is to assist them with their testing programme. Their official public preview services start on 29 June 2009.

How can I get aboard?

From Monday 22 June to Friday 26 June Southeastern will welcome Eurostar employees aboard their High-Speed services simply by showing a valid Eurostar ID pass to the terminal and onboard employees.

When can I travel?

There will be three services from Ashford International to St Pancras during morning peak period and three return services in the evening. During the day, these trains will operate an hourly shuttle service between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet International. A simplified timetable is attached to this message.

Southeastern are running these trains next week as part of their testing and commissioning programme. They hope that having some people aboard these services will assist them in making sure that they are better prepared for their public preview services launch. If you're planning to jump aboard next week please bear in mind that, though completely safe, you will be part of a live test environment. This offer is for one week only and no rail discount will be offered to us on the public preview service.*

If you have any questions please...............

[* My bolding]

Having read that again, it could well be the case that the 'no-PRIV on HS1' exception applies only to E* staff but I'm not certain.

 

[dan_atki]

I was just about to say that I'd agree that it was for Eurostar staff only (who I believe operate a different privilege system anyways) until I notice that ATOC have put something on their site within the last couple of hours confirming that free/discounted travel is NOT allowed on HS1 preview services: http://www.atoc.org/rst/_download/special_offer/Web_HS1_230609.pdf

As I said above, I feel it is rather misleading to use ticket types which Priv discounts are applied to on this route... unless these Anytime Day Returns are not actually SDRs? I would agree though, having a different ticket type would certainly make things more confusing for other passengers after 'simplification'.

 

[glynn80]

I was just about to say that I'd agree that it was for Eurostar staff only (who I believe operate a different privilege system anyways) until I notice that ATOC have put something on their site within the last couple of hours confirming that free/discounted travel is NOT allowed on HS1: http://www.atoc.org/rst/_download/special_offer/Web_HS1_230609.pdf

As I said above, I feel it is rather misleading to use ticket types which Priv discounts are applied to on this route...

In my understanding, the restriction is only to the Preview services and will not be in place when South Eastern begin operating the full service.

The link you provided states the following, "There is no free or reduced rate travel for rail staff on the high speed preview services". Nothing is stated regarding discounts when the full service begins operation.

 

[dan_atki]

Indeed, you beat me with the quote before I realised what I said was slightly wrong and edited it!

 

[1D53]

A member of staff yesterday was told that they were accepting ALL TOC's for free travel this week, whether everyone is following this I can't confirm.

Someone made it yesterday at least http://northernrailways.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4032

 

[Aictos]

For reasons I can't fathom they won't. However I understand that a limited group of railway staff can ride this week's (non-public) preview services for free if they have the required ID.

I know, I was one of them,

Managed to get get two return trips from St Pancras International to Ebbsfleet International with one of my colleagues who was showing me how good it actually is plus with the very kind permission of the traincrew got shown the inside of the cab and a little bit on how it works ,

You don't actually feel like you're travelling at 140mph, but you are - having said that you can certainly feel the acceleration after leaving St Pancras International.

Still the guard on the first trip must have been though the American customer service course ran by South Eastern for the route as I've never heard any guard that happy on his announcements!

Still I'm back on Friday and getting both Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International done 8)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What's really strange is first thing this morning, I posted the above briefing on South Eastern offering rail staff the chance to take part in the live tests this week on the staff intranet only for a staff briefing to be sent out about 3pm containing the exact same stuff but only highlighting the stuff which said FCC staff could take part this week in the tests.

Still, by now all FCC staff should be aware of it - had to post it on the intranet after chatting to my favourite revenue colleague at Kings Cross who I've known for a while that although she was based at Kings Cross, they never heard of the South Eastern offer.

 

[rail-britain]

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/index.php/cms/pages/view/325

According to this, First Class ticket holders do NOT need to pay a supplement (holding a 14 day First Class ALR)
Is this the case?
When I phoned them I was told the supplement would be £16.20 return travelling :
London St Pancras - Ebbsfleet / Ebbsfleet - London St Pancras

The page clearly states :
"Passengers holding a valid first class ticket may be entitled to travel on preview services free of charge. Ask at your local station whether your ticket entitles you to use preview services"
Emphasis on the MAY

 

[Danielo]

Is it possible to turn up, by a ticket and go for a ride on this srvice? Or do ticckets nned to be bought in advance? I'm planning a trip on Thursday morning from St Pancras and back.

 

[rail-britain]

Yes, see the link I posted to southeasternrailway
The problem I have is that I already hold a First Class ticket, and when you follow their instructions to buy the supplement online it comes up with £0.00 price (for any First Class tickets)
It's not very clear on their website, so I've no idea where they got the fare from

 

[mathmo]

I think the point is that tickets for some journeys will not be valid on routes using HS1, so that's why it says "may". It was fairly clear in the initial publicity that if you have a FC ticket London-Ashford then you can use it for free on the HS1 service.

 

[Nick W]

How does/will this work for passengers who wish to use this high speed line as part of their journey. Will they be charged a supplement on the train / forced to buy a supplement at the ticket office as I can't forsee all train tickets to Kent being duplicated.

 

[A60K]

There's a thread that goes into detail about this - basically, yes, all fares from anywhere that could involve use of HS1 will be duplicated. One set of fares will be routed 'Not HS1' at current price levels, and there will be 'Any Permitted' fares with the supplementary amounts built in.

 

[glynn80]

There's a thread that goes into detail about this - basically, yes, all fares from anywhere that could involve use of HS1 will be duplicated. One set of fares will be routed 'Not HS1' at current price levels, and there will be 'Any Permitted' fares with the supplementary amounts built in.

This is not the case whatsoever.

The SET franchise agreement explains the procedures with regard to fares on the CTRL Domestic Services. Within the National Rail Terms of the franchise agreement, on Page 130 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/publicregister/current/lser/lsernational.pdf), it states the following:

2. Prior to the introduction of CTRL DS, the Franchisee shall modify (and the Secretar of State shall approve the modification of) the following Flows, in accordance with the relevant procedures set out in the Ticketing and Settle Agreement:

(a) any Flow which permits travel between London and Ashford; and

(b) any Flow which permits travel between London and Gravesend

for which the Franchisee is Lead Operator, to change the route for such Flows to 'not CTRL'. Fares set on such Flows will not be valid for travel on CTRL DS.

This franchise clause only permits SET from modifying the flows which they are the lead operator for and does not permit them to modify the flows that other operators set.

 

[TGVDUDE]

Does this Preview Javelin service include Dover yet? if not when will it start?

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Does this Preview Javelin service include Dover yet? if not when will it start?

December like the rest of the High Speed Domestic services for Dover et al.

I cant wait to try it to my mums in Sittingbourne, as I come from North London it will save me time tho Im waiting to see how much the cost is as Priv is not going to be valid on the High Speed section so I'll likely end up with two tickets, St Pancras - Gravesend and Gravesend - Sittingbourne on Priv.

Southeastern staff are not allowed to use the HS service unless there working tho they have to work on the HS to use it. I spoke to a driver from Ashford last week who had to pay full fare to use his own company's trains to reach St Pancras.

This is not the case whatsoever.

The SET franchise agreement explains the procedures with regard to fares on the CTRL Domestic Services. Within the National Rail Terms of the franchise agreement, on Page 130 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/publicregister/current/lser/lsernational.pdf), it states the following:



This franchise clause only permits SET from modifying the flows which they are the lead operator for and does not permit them to modify the flows that other operators set.

Er but didnt he say that fares that could involve HS would be affected so in affect he's agreeing with you as not other operators jounery could use an HS like route (expect going to Ashford via Lewes).If not Im getting confused with all this ticketing stuff and i work on the railways. God help the customers!

I know "not via HS1" has been appearing on FCC tickets since January.

 

[TGVDUDE]

I spoke to a driver from Ashford last week who had to pay full fare to use his own company's trains to reach St Pancras.

thats just sad!

 

[Hampshire Unit]

Southeastern staff are not allowed to use the HS service unless there working tho they have to work on the HS to use it. I spoke to a driver from Ashford last week who had to pay full fare to use his own company's trains to reach St Pancras.

So that’s another member of rail staff feeling valued by his company :roll:

 

[mackenzie_blu]

thats just sad!

I'll point out he lives in Ashford and needed to get to London for work. He thought he'd try it and see what the extra time in bed was like! Can't blame him.

 

[martyn29]

What is the fare for the ticket? I cant find it on tribute!

 

[paul1609]

This is not the case whatsoever.

The SET franchise agreement explains the procedures with regard to fares on the CTRL Domestic Services. Within the National Rail Terms of the franchise agreement, on Page 130 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/publicregister/current/lser/lsernational.pdf), it states the following:



This franchise clause only permits SET from modifying the flows which they are the lead operator for and does not permit them to modify the flows that other operators set.

I dont doubt that you are right about the franchise agreement but what has happened in practise is that just about every previous "any permitted" fare in Kent has become "Not HS1". Even where there is no obvious use of HS1.
Last weekend I bought a Superoff peak single from Tunbridge Wells to London Charing Cross and that was route "not HS1".
I suspect that the franchise agreement has been overtaken by fare simplification.

 

[466.networkers]

What is the fare for the ticket? I cant find it on tribute!

Hi,

Preview fare information can be found on this page on the Southeastern website:

Thanks,
Ryan