Jacobite ECS Fort William to Carnforth

[peteb]

Seen the other thread about Hogwarts etc. If loads of people will turn out just to see the Hogwarts train why not run the Jacobite ECS Fort William to Carnforth as a passenger excursion from Fort William to Glasgow? I'd pay to go across Rannoch Moor behind steam, whether it's got anything to do with Hatty Potter or not! A lunchtime departure would allow a day return from Glasgow using Scotrail and the Glasgow to Carnforth ECS could still be in Carnforth by midnight. Even in November the scenic bit could be achieved in daylight. Are there any operational reasons why this is impossible?

 

[30907]

Seen the other thread about Hogwarts etc. If loads of people will turn out just to see the Hogwarts train why not run the Jacobite ECS Fort William to Carnforth as a passenger excursion from Fort William to Glasgow? I'd pay to go across Rannoch Moor behind steam, whether it's got anything to do with Hatty Potter or not! A lunchtime departure would allow a day return from Glasgow using Scotrail and the Glasgow to Carnforth ECS could still be in Carnforth by midnight. Even in November the scenic bit could be achieved in daylight. Are there any operational reasons why this is impossible?

ISTR this has happened in the past?

 

[Cowley]

ISTR this has happened in the past?

Yes indeed and with two locos double heading.
I guess it’s just a bit difficult to organise this year with the current situation?

 

[peteb]

It'd certainly be something good to look forward to post covid: a sleeper to Fort William and back via Steam to Glasgow and Pendo to Crewe. A 24hrs well spent!

 

[Cowley]

It'd certainly be something good to look forward to post covid: a sleeper to Fort William and back via Steam to Glasgow and Pendo to Crewe. A 24hrs well spent!

I’ll say.

 

[E100]

I've also long thought this. I dare say they could even run a weekend service over a few weekends as a trial. Out on Saturday, back on Sunday.

 

[philthetube]

Must be worth doing, midweek as well, possibly round tickets in conjunction with Scotrain to make it more affordable for a round trip.

Would be a great optional extra for coach drivers to make a few quid on.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I've often thought they could do something 'in service' to make use of the ECS mileage they must accrue to swap locos/coaches over. I guess it depends how often they have to do it and how much notice they have.

 

[peteb]

I'd thought simply the end of year Fort William to Carnforth ECS (assume it all goes back there for the winter, doesn't it?) as a one off one way trip. No frills. Bring your own food and drink. Plenty of crossing points so time for brief leg stretches, and arrive Glasgow somewhere at dusk. Assume it would need to be a suburban set down and not Queen St low level! Even if limited to 100 mask wearers nicely spread out it would help offset the cost of running the ECS back to Carnforth.

 

[gsnedders]

I'd thought simply the end of year Fort William to Carnforth ECS (assume it all goes back there for the winter, doesn't it?) as a one off one way trip. No frills. Bring your own food and drink. Plenty of crossing points so time for brief leg stretches, and arrive Glasgow somewhere at dusk. Assume it would need to be a suburban set down and not Queen St low level! Even if limited to 100 mask wearers nicely spread out it would help offset the cost of running the ECS back to Carnforth.

Typically it has switched to diesel haulage at Craigendoran WHL, but obviously once under diesel there's nothing stopping it from calling at either Queen Street or Central LL (and it has previously run through both; the diesel emissions wouldn't be great but if it could get away with a brief stop...).

 

[awsnews]

In more recent times it hasn't switched to diesel at Craigendoran WHL but it does spend a fair bit of time there taking on water, it was over an hour on this Mondays move. Sometimes the coaches have been diesel hauled all the way and the steam locos come down separately. Apart from having to accommodate the stop for water somewhere there aren't that many stations it could drop off at due to the length of the train, possibly just Dumbarton Central or Queen Street.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Apropos the Jacobite, how many steam engines do they have up there now? I went past earlier and whilst it was hard to be clear because a rake of Mk 1s was obscuring my view, it looked like there were three. Is that right?

 

[Cowley]

Apropos the Jacobite, how many steam engines do they have up there now? I went past earlier and whilst it was hard to be clear because a rake of Mk 1s was obscuring my view, it looked like there were three. Is that right?

I think there’s usually three and a standby diesel. Were they running the full two train service this summer?
I think the last time I went on it there were two Black 5s as the main locos with 62005 on standby.

 

[peteb]

In more recent times it hasn't switched to diesel at Craigendoran WHL but it does spend a fair bit of time there taking on water, it was over an hour on this Mondays move. Sometimes the coaches have been diesel hauled all the way and the steam locos come down separately. Apart from having to accommodate the stop for water somewhere there aren't that many stations it could drop off at due to the length of the train, possibly just Dumbarton Central or Queen Street.

Surely on a Mk1 train the doors could be bolted manually and the 100 or so passengers might be spread across 3 carriages nearest the loco, to keep warm and thus would platform length be an issue? Of course if it was a fully sold out train with 300 on board then yes I guess limited set down options.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Oct 2020 ==

I think there’s usually three and a standby diesel. Were they running the full two train service this summer?
I think the last time I went on it there were two Black 5s as the main locos with 62005 on standby.

A double headed train from Fort William to Glasgow would be great! Probably much too late to sort out this year but it would be good to think there's a chance this could occur in a post covid world!

 

[The Bear]

Seen the other thread about Hogwarts etc. If loads of people will turn out just to see the Hogwarts train why not run the Jacobite ECS Fort William to Carnforth as a passenger excursion from Fort William to Glasgow? I'd pay to go across Rannoch Moor behind steam, whether it's got anything to do with Hatty Potter or not! A lunchtime departure would allow a day return from Glasgow using Scotrail and the Glasgow to Carnforth ECS could still be in Carnforth by midnight. Even in November the scenic bit could be achieved in daylight. Are there any operational reasons why this is impossible?

ISTR this has happened in the past?

Yes, returning the locos & stock from Fort William at the end of the Jacobite season did indeed run as a one-way charter for around 3-4 years, the last one being (I think) was around Oct 2004.
The tour was entitled "The Summit Conference" and ran Fort William to Oxenholme with passengers then ECS to Steamtown.
I think the reasons for Conference's coming to an end was because it was a logistical nightmare; with a journey time of around 13+hours and pathing a 50mph steam-hauled train over such a long distance of the WCML was quite a challenge.
From memory the Conference charter was an add on after a few days of photographic charters on the WHL, which don't happen now.

The chances of a Summit Conference rerun I would say are extremely slim.

 

[peteb]

Yes, returning the locos & stock from Fort William at the end of the Jacobite season did indeed run as a one-way charter for around 3-4 years, the last one being (I think) was around Oct 2004.
The tour was entitled "The Summit Conference" and ran Fort William to Oxenholme with passengers then ECS to Steamtown.
I think the reasons for Conference's coming to an end was because it was a logistical nightmare; with a journey time of around 13+hours and pathing a 50mph steam-hauled train over such a long distance of the WCML was quite a challenge.
From memory the Conference charter was an add on after a few days of photographic charters on the WHL, which don't happen now.

The chances of a Summit Conference rerun I would say are extremely slim.

Understand that, with the long day and WCML pathing issues, you are probably right. But a shorter public section to Glasgow only really relies on a path at a convenient time from Fort William and a suitable drop off location before ECS continues to Carnforth, plus a few stewards. Hence suggestion numbers are limited and it's no frills, no bar etc! It would be for the real die hard steam enthusiasts who like me covet steam over Rannoch otherwise unavailable.

 

[CW2]

Way back in November 1992 I did it with loco 2005 on load 7, running as a return excursion to Edinburgh. On that occasion it took 4 attempts (and 2 hours) to make the climb up to Glen Douglas, wreaking a fair degree of havoc to the West Highland Line timetable in the process. That was an SRPS charter, if I recall correctly. All good fun, but maybe indicative of why the return ECS isn't run as a charter any more - particularly during the leaf-fall season.

 

[peteb]

Way back in November 1992 I did it with loco 2005 on load 7, running as a return excursion to Edinburgh. On that occasion it took 4 attempts (and 2 hours) to make the climb up to Glen Douglas, wreaking a fair degree of havoc to the West Highland Line timetable in the process. That was an SRPS charter, if I recall correctly. All good fun, but maybe indicative of why the return ECS isn't run as a charter any more - particularly during the leaf-fall season.

Which is why it would make sense to double head the train?

 

[CW2]

Which is why it would make sense to double head the train?

At the time there was just the one loco at Fort William.
Nowadays with morning and afternoon steam-hauled services there are usually 3 locos, i.e. 2 in steam plus a spare.
So it should be possible to run the train back as a pair.

 

[gsnedders]

Understand that, with the long day and WCML pathing issues, you are probably right. But a shorter public section to Glasgow only really relies on a path at a convenient time from Fort William and a suitable drop off location before ECS continues to Carnforth, plus a few stewards. Hence suggestion numbers are limited and it's no frills, no bar etc! It would be for the real die hard steam enthusiasts who like me covet steam over Rannoch otherwise unavailable.

A suitable drop-off location is difficult, though, given the North Clyde Line tends to be pretty damned busy all day.

 

[peteb]

A suitable drop-off location is difficult, though, given the North Clyde Line tends to be pretty damned busy all day.

It would have to be Helensburgh Upper then, followed by a brisk walk down the hill to the town station!

 

[Killingworth]

The Jacobite is continuing on weekday mornings until Friday 13th November this year.

"Morning Service:
The Jacobite runs from Wednesday 15th July to Friday 13th November 2020 (Monday to Friday). Saturday and Sunday from Saturday 18th July to Sunday 25th October 2020.

New Dates Added! The morning service now running until Friday 13th November."

 

[92002]

It would have to be Helensburgh Upper then, followed by a brisk walk down the hill to the town station!

Could just as easily be Springburn on the North Electric line. The ECS tends to go via Maryhill and Springburn, from there to Mossend, then the WCML. Think there still are 2 locos at Fort William.
The season has been extended to Mid November. So a VSTP not impossible.

 

[paul1609]

A suitable drop-off location is difficult, though, given the North Clyde Line tends to be pretty damned busy all day.

Is the loop platform at Dumbarton Central accessible from the west? That doest seem to get a great deal of use.

 

[peteb]

Could just as easily be Springburn on the North Electric line. The ECS tends to go via Maryhill and Springburn, from there to Mossend, then the WCML. Think there still are 2 locos at Fort William.
The season has been extended to Mid November. So a VSTP not impossible.

Although with the new central belt Covid restrictions I guess whilst a steam excursion wouldn't be illegal it might be frowned upon by those in charge of train planning at Network Rail?

Maybe it would need to drop off outside the connurbation: does Carstairs still count as central belt for Covid restrictions?

 

[92002]

Although with the new central belt Covid restrictions I guess whilst a steam excursion wouldn't be illegal it might be frowned upon by those in charge of train planning at Network Rail?

Maybe it would need to drop off outside the connurbation: does Carstairs still count as central belt for Covid restrictions?

The current Central belt travel restrictions are advisory, but not mandatory. Any ECS train would however not be till Novrmber, which probably will be after the restrictions.

 

[awsnews]

Is the loop platform at Dumbarton Central accessible from the west? That doest seem to get a great deal of use.

Not sure if it is accessible from the West but it is used by the Dumbarton to Springburn service.