I've been silly

[drenge23]

Hello,

I've been very silly. With Christmas coming up and money being short, I boarded an EMR train at Sheffield to Manchester Picadilly, I had forgotten to buy a ticket in advance as normally I buy the night before, in this case I'd forgotten. So I'd arrived in Manchester and thought well I could save some money by buying an open return from Stockport, when I got to the gate the Northern Trains woman scanned my ticket and then asked me to step to the side. I explained that I'd just bought the ticket and then I got grilled on the ins and outs of Stockport station so I just admitted what I had done and offered to pay for a new ticket. He told me he had the power to caution me, he didn't actually do it but said he had the power to. I offered to pay the fare for a new ticket there and then but was told that wasn't possible, the man got quite aggressive with me and asked me for ID (I don't carry mine as standard as I don't drive) but I proceeded to give him the full information.

He kept saying I would receive a letter so I pressed for information on what the letter would entail and he kept being cagey about it until I eventually got quite upset and visibly worried.

I have received a penalty once before about four years ago when I lived in Dronfield. This was completely not my fault though as their ticket machine wasn't working and the train conductor straight didn't believe me and I paid the fine on the spot.

I know what I did was wrong and would of course never risk this kind of thing again but with Christmas coming up, I wasn't thinking straight about the whole thing. I'm just wondering what the next steps might be? I am terribly worried about the whole scenario.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

I've been very silly. With Christmas coming up and money being short, I boarded an EMR train at Sheffield to Manchester Picadilly, I had forgotten to buy a ticket in advance as normally I buy the night before, in this case I'd forgotten. So I'd arrived in Manchester and thought well I could save some money by buying an open return from Stockport, when I got to the gate the Northern Trains woman scanned my ticket and then asked me to step to the side. I explained that I'd just bought the ticket and then I got grilled on the ins and outs of Stockport station so I just admitted what I had done and offered to pay for a new ticket. He told me he had the power to caution me, he didn't actually do it but said he had the power to. I offered to pay the fare for a new ticket there and then but was told that wasn't possible, the man got quite aggressive with me and asked me for ID (I don't carry mine as standard as I don't drive) but I proceeded to give him the full information.

He kept saying I would receive a letter so I pressed for information on what the letter would entail and he kept being cagey about it until I eventually got quite upset and visibly worried.

I have received a penalty once before about four years ago when I lived in Dronfield. This was completely not my fault though as their ticket machine wasn't working and the train conductor straight didn't believe me and I paid the fine on the spot.

I know what I did was wrong and would of course never risk this kind of thing again but with Christmas coming up, I wasn't thinking straight about the whole thing. I'm just wondering what the next steps might be? I am terribly worried about the whole scenario.

Hi - and welcome. Various threads on here that are similar and you will see what advise is that you should now follow, but what you have done is called 'short faring' which is an offence as you will realise.

Basically you need to wait for the letter from them and then flag that up here for advice on how best to respond. It will ask for your side of events and have a threat of prosecution in it. You MUST respond to this letter (or it will almost certainly just automatically escalate to court) - so
a) be sure you gave them your correct contact postal address (sounds like you did)
b) watch out for the letter (if you don't get it within say a couple of months you may want to think about contacting them to find out about it - it may be that the staff wrote down your address wrongly - which does not prevent it going to court tho you can restart the clock, but it gets more complicated and you may need solicitor to help with that which becomes more hassle / cost so best avoided if possible)
c) take steps to get your post checked if you are away from your home (eg over Christmas etc, or say if you are a student and it is your term time address only) as you do not get very long to reply to them.
d) make sure you respond to the letter promptly.

People on here will be happy to help advise you on best course of action for you now to minimise the penalty you will probably be threatened with etc in what you write in that letter.

The reason that you can't simply pay the fare to the inspector then and there 'to put things right then and there' is the 'pay when challenged' argument (ie why would anyone pay their fare at all if they could just pay on the random time they were caught out). I am sure you will appreciate the logic of this.

As I say - plenty of advice on here to help you from this point onwards so try not to worry too much. Of course make sure you 100% have the correct ticket from this point onwards - even if that means you go to a ticket office to request if from a member of staff so you do not get the wrong ticket by mistake.

Your objective should probably be to secure an agreed settlement with the railway, and to avoid it going to court as from what you have posted you would be found guilty, which sounds like something you appreciate and you now regret.

 

[drenge23]

I massively regret the whole thing, it's not something I have done before - just feeling the pinch a bit in the run up to Christmas which I did explain to the man at the gate and he seemed to appreciate. From what I've read on the forums, generally most of these end up in a penalty or then an out of court settlement. My one worry is the penalty fare I paid a few years ago (although I was at a different address then, so I don't know if this flags in the same way?).

I do appreciate the logic there. I completely understand that what I did was wrong and just wanted to rectify the scenario.

I'm well aware they could go for a conviction however I do hope in the event I'm able to give my side that they would agree to an out of court settlement which I would willingly pay of course.

Horrible being sat here at work worrying about all this, it's certainly something I would never attempt again.

Does anyone have any info on whether a paid on-the-spot penalty fare would affect me in this scenario? I'm certainly not a repeat offender.

 

[WesternLancer]

Horrible being sat here at work worrying about all this, it's certainly something I would never attempt again.

Does anyone have any info on whether a paid on-the-spot penalty fare would affect me in this scenario? I'm certainly not a repeat offender.

Try not to worry too much - nothing you can do now until you get the letter.

Worth bearing in mind that on balance I suspect it is rather in the railways interests to settle with you rather than take you to court (costs them less, they keep the settlement money basically)

Not sure about if they will know it was you before, others may have a clearer idea. Probably depends on how common your name is and if they took other ID (like an NI number or date of birth) as you say you live at a different address now.

Just think about the draft of your apology and regret letter so you are ready to reply when they write to you.

 

[drenge23]

Thank you WesternLancer - that's a help. As I say, this isn't common for me as I travel to Manchester twice a week and have done for so long now - this is the first and last time I'll ever pull anything like this.

From reading online, while they can prosecute, they do tend to prefer an out of court settlement. This has put me a bit at ease, I'd love to be able to sit here and defend my actions but simply put, I can't.

If anyone knows whether the on-the-spot fine will affect me here that would be great. I would really love to avoid a criminal record for such a silly error of judgement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2021 ==

The Northern site states:

Q. Why am I being taken to court?
A. Because it is alleged that you have committed the offence described on the summons and you have previously declined our offer to deal with the case without it having to go court or you have ignored correspondence from us about the matter.

Am I reading too much into this or does this generally mean they tend to offer an out of court settlement before letting it get that far?

 

[Killingworth]

Thank you WesternLancer - that's a help. As I say, this isn't common for me as I travel to Manchester twice a week and have done for so long now - this is the first and last time I'll ever pull anything like this.

From reading online, while they can prosecute, they do tend to prefer an out of court settlement. This has put me a bit at ease, I'd love to be able to sit here and defend my actions but simply put, I can't.

If anyone knows whether the on-the-spot fine will affect me here that would be great. I would really love to avoid a criminal record for such a silly error of judgement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2021 ==

The Northern site states:

Q. Why am I being taken to court?
A. Because it is alleged that you have committed the offence described on the summons and you have previously declined our offer to deal with the case without it having to go court or you have ignored correspondence from us about the matter.

Am I reading too much into this or does this generally mean they tend to offer an out of court settlement before letting it get that far?

I feel sure a TOC would prefer to avoid court action, however it's too easy to board a train at Sheffield without a ticket and regular travellers can't fail to notice attempts to evade payment. I've witnessed some wonderful acts (some successful, mostly not) so it's not surprising a harder line is now being taken after an almost open house during lockdown.

I'm puzzled by this case. Both Sheffield and Dronfield are unbarriered stations with ticket machines. It's well known that tickets are checked at Piccadilly, although there are no barriers as such. Tickets are being checked on many trains.

So I'd arrived in Manchester and thought well I could save some money by buying an open return from Stockport, when I got to the gate the Northern Trains woman scanned my ticket and then asked me to step to the side. I explained that I'd just bought the ticket and then I got grilled on the ins and outs of Stockport station so I just admitted what I had done and offered to pay for a new ticket. He told me he had the power to caution me, he didn't actually do it but said he had the power to. I offered to pay the fare for a new ticket there and then but was told that wasn't possible, the man got quite aggressive with me and asked me for ID (I don't carry mine as standard as I don't drive) but I proceeded to give him the full information.

There's no apparent suggestion that the ticket was bought on the train. It seems a return ticket from Stockport may have been bought at a TVM between Platform 14 and the exit barrier at Piccadilly. There a woman scanned the ticket and must have had suspicions, probably from the time stamp on the ticket. A man then asks questions and the suspicions are confirmed because there appears to have been little knowledge of the barriers at Stockport station and how they'd been avoided.

What exactly was said may determine the course of action, but the man at the gate won't be making the decision. I'd doubt they'd be able to track back to an old address, but that's one reason why the man wouldn't commit to what exactly would follow after his report was processed.

It's very important to recall exactly what was said as it may be crucial. As Western Lancer says it's very important to ensure the letter is received and referred back here without giving any further information that might complicate the case. Just mentioning being a regular traveller from Sheffield might raise suspicions that this was not the first time. The lack of a caution may be a positive sign.

 

[drenge23]

I should state the previous time I'd paid a fine was on a journey from Sheffield to Dronfield and it was just a £20 fine. It was simply that the machine was broken at Dronfield and the conductor didn't believe that, I did contest that but in the end I just paid as I didn't want any trouble.

The man took me to one side and asked me several questions about Stockport station including what platform, how I'd got past barriers etc - I didn't want to get into any trouble, so I thought I'd just give vague answers and hope they let me on my way then obviously as they kept going I just told the truth at which point he told me that he could caution me, however he didn't say anything about placing me under caution or anything like that, just a bit of a threat.

I asked him to stop being hostile and aggressive and I think he could tell I was getting rather anxious and upset so he dialed back a bit. That's when he asked for all my info, took a photo of my ticket and asked why I'd done it so he could fill in on his form. He didn't ask me to sign to say I agreed with any of this though or give me chance to go through any details.

I told him exactly what it was, I was just worried about money in the run up to Christmas.

I never mentioned I was a regular traveller to him.

I do hope this can get resolved soon, I'm in knots about it all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2021 ==

Edit: Apologies, I meant the previous journey I'd paid a fine on was from Dronfield to Sheffield rather

 

[MotCO]

It's very important to recall exactly what was said as it may be crucial.

@drenge23 - just to reiterate this point, it may be helpful if you could write a report of exactly what happened, and when , and what was said while it is still fresh in your mind. You do not need to share it on this forum, but you can add to it as you remember more of what happened. This will help when you are asked for your version of events when you receive the letter.

As an aside, if you are an infrequent traveller, there may be railcards or other tickets available for you which may make your journey cheaper. If you can outline the types of journeys you take, the times you travel etc, others with a ticketing background may be able to advise.

 

[WesternLancer]

It's very important to recall exactly what was said as it may be crucial. As Western Lancer says it's very important to ensure the letter is received and referred back here without giving any further information that might complicate the case. Just mentioning being a regular traveller from Sheffield might raise suspicions that this was not the first time. The lack of a caution may be a positive sign.

Good points -

to @drenge23 - it may be worth you spending some time over the next few days checking your own records / diary for every date you traveled say over the last 6 months (or whatever you feel is appropriate / possible) and matching bank statements / on line purchase records that show you bought a ticket for that trip - in case the argument is made to you "we think you have done this lots of times" - if these involve needing proof of fares paid keep that proof as downloaded bank statements / screen shots / print outs or whatever that show date / payment to the railways (or whoever you buy your tickets off) and the sum paid so that it matches an applicable fare for the journey concerned. Having this prepared will help you rebut any accusation that you have done this on other occasions (even though I am not saying you have).

This is back up action to prepare for the worst, I am not saying they will accuse you of this - just be prepared. Do this now whilst you await your letter.

This will allow you to say honestly in your letter eg "I have never deliberate avoided paying a train fare before apart from on this one occasion where I made a serious error of judgment that I now regret" knowing that you can proove this statement if asked to do so.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2021 ==

@drenge23 - just to reiterate this point, it may be helpful if you could write a report of exactly what happened, and when , and what was said while it is still fresh in your mind. You do not need to share it on this forum, but you can add to it as you remember more of what happened. This will help when you are asked for your version of events when you receive the letter.

As an aside, if you are an infrequent traveller, there may be railcards or other tickets available for you which may make your journey cheaper. If you can outline the types of journeys you take, the times you travel etc, others with a ticketing background may be able to advise.

again, very good advice.

 

[drenge23]

Does anyone know how long it will take for a letter to come through?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2021 ==

I have had 25 journeys on my Trainline account fully paid for between Sheffield and Manchester over the last five months so I would hope that any argument to try and make me out to be a repeat offender would be fairly null and void.

There has been a couple of occasions whereby I have genuinely been to Stockport, or Chinley as I have line managers in both towns.

I tried to keep a recording of the whole thing just so I knew what had happened however unfortunately my phone wouldn't save this - gutting as this could be crucial as you say.

I think my error here is obviously my attempt to play it off, although hopefully I would get points for coming clean and giving all the correct information and complying with his report.

I was obviously wrong with my intent and I am fully aware of that so hopefully it's just a penalty notice delivered but in the event I have to give my side, am I best off being honest and giving a genuine apology?

 

[AlterEgo]

Does anyone know how long it will take for a letter to come through?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2021 ==

I have had 25 journeys on my Trainline account fully paid for between Sheffield and Manchester over the last five months so I would hope that any argument to try and make me out to be a repeat offender would be fairly null and void.

There has been a couple of occasions whereby I have genuinely been to Stockport, or Chinley as I have line managers in both towns.

I tried to keep a recording of the whole thing just so I knew what had happened however unfortunately my phone wouldn't save this - gutting as this could be crucial as you say.

I think my error here is obviously my attempt to play it off, although hopefully I would get points for coming clean and giving all the correct information and complying with his report.

I was obviously wrong with my intent and I am fully aware of that so hopefully it's just a penalty notice delivered but in the event I have to give my side, am I best off being honest and giving a genuine apology?

You are not likely to be given a penalty fare, because these are reserved for passengers who have made an inadvertent error but where no deliberate fare evasion is suspected.

You will most likely get a letter asking for your side of events, which you should answer honestly (but without being too fulsome!), and request to settle the matter out of court. As it stands, you committed an offence for which the TOC is easily able to prosecute you for, but the good news for you is Northern tend to be very amenable to settling for the outstanding fare plus an admin charge of maybe £100.

 

[drenge23]

Thank you.

I thought this would be the case and will begin drafting an apology. I will post in here once I get the letter and gather your guys thoughts as you're the experts!

Just wanna say a big thanks to everyone who has commented here today as you've really helped me out.

 

[Killingworth]

I should state the previous time I'd paid a fine was on a journey from Sheffield to Dronfield and it was just a £20 fine. It was simply that the machine was broken at Dronfield and the conductor didn't believe that, I did contest that but in the end I just paid as I didn't want any trouble.

Please be very careful how you present your case. Travelling without a ticket from Dronfield to Sheffield is understandable if the machine was out of action, but there are two, one on each platform. I'd take a photo of the machine if that were the case, but that isn't the problem. You say you were penalised for a journey from Sheffield to Dronfield. There's a ticket office at Sheffield and a line of ticket machines between the entrance and the platform.

 

[drenge23]

I'm not being flagged for that journey, I paid a fine for that a few years ago on the spot. My only worry was that if that affected how they dealt with this case

 

[Killingworth]

I'm not being flagged for that journey, I paid a fine for that a few years ago on the spot. My only worry was that if that affected how they dealt with this case

Precisely, the way you appear to have approached that case was bound to get the result it got. That's almost certainly now history, but you must guard against digging yourself in any deeper in this case.

The railway knows there are many who regularly avoid paying any or the correct fares. A significant number using shorter distance trains into Sheffield chance it every day hoping they'll be allowed to pay the fare on the train or on the platform on arrival if challenged. Few get penalised.

In the current case you deliberately bought a ticket for a shorter journey than you had taken, and intended to take on your return. It was silly but would suggest to any investigator that it was premeditated and may not have been a first offence. Whether it was or wasn't you must be very careful not to give a scintilla of suspicion that it should be investigated further as that could prolong resolution.

 

[drenge23]

Sorry I think you've misunderstood on the circumstances of that penalty but its sorted and in the past. I only mentioned in case it would affect this current claim, which I hope it won't but will face if and when it comes up.

 

[js1000]

Hello,

I've been very silly. With Christmas coming up and money being short, I boarded an EMR train at Sheffield to Manchester Picadilly, I had forgotten to buy a ticket in advance as normally I buy the night before, in this case I'd forgotten. So I'd arrived in Manchester and thought well I could save some money by buying an open return from Stockport, when I got to the gate the Northern Trains woman scanned my ticket and then asked me to step to the side. I explained that I'd just bought the ticket and then I got grilled on the ins and outs of Stockport station so I just admitted what I had done and offered to pay for a new ticket. He told me he had the power to caution me, he didn't actually do it but said he had the power to. I offered to pay the fare for a new ticket there and then but was told that wasn't possible, the man got quite aggressive with me and asked me for ID (I don't carry mine as standard as I don't drive) but I proceeded to give him the full information.

He kept saying I would receive a letter so I pressed for information on what the letter would entail and he kept being cagey about it until I eventually got quite upset and visibly worried.

I have received a penalty once before about four years ago when I lived in Dronfield. This was completely not my fault though as their ticket machine wasn't working and the train conductor straight didn't believe me and I paid the fine on the spot.

I know what I did was wrong and would of course never risk this kind of thing again but with Christmas coming up, I wasn't thinking straight about the whole thing. I'm just wondering what the next steps might be? I am terribly worried about the whole scenario.

I'm not going to sugar-coat this - there are a few problems here.

The first problem is you didn't buy at Sheffield which is always manned with staff and ticket machine. If this was a one-off you would have been given a penalty fare or a fine - or at the very least a ticking off. In any response you need to accept this was a mistake and for some reason you were hoping to buy on the train or at the destination.

The second one (and biggest of all) is you short fared. TOCs see that as a deliberate and pre-meditated attempt to defraud another person/entity. They'd rather you not buy a ticket at all and risk getting caught then (it's fair game in a way) than deliberately under-paying what they are correctly owed. If everyone travelled without a ticket they'd be caught and deterred. If everyone short-fared on journeys then the railways would be on their knees.

Lastly, the mis-use of M-tickets. If you had just bought a m-ticket from Stockport to Piccadilly then clearly it would not have been possible to get from Stockport to Piccadilly in 2 minutes. Many sadly abuse them by not buying a ticket before boarding, then only buying one on board or at the destination if a conductor comes rolling down the train or there is a manned ticket check/barriers active at the destination. This is an accepted problem so they will frown on this as well.

I'd write a letter apologising, showing contrition for your actions and that you have learnt your lesson and will never do it again (and hope they come to an out of court settlement). Just be careful not to use phrases like "offence" or "crime" and do their work for them - just that you see why your actions have a detrimental impact on the railways.

You sound upset at the aggressive ticket barrier staff but refrain from talking about staff unless they have done or said something wrong. I concede that some can be very disappointing in how they talk to passengers and I think the railway industry accepts this is a problem that an antagonistic approach is taken without any discretion too often. But please be aware alarm bells would have been ringing for numerous reasons set out above and why it could not simply be resolved with a standard fare.

With regards to the penalty fare from 4 years ago - this should not affect your response. Penalty fares are resolved there and then as you state. If however you had ended up in court for fare evasion from 4 years ago and you had been caught again then different story.

 

[drenge23]

Thank you very much. Yes I'm fully aware what I did was wrong and that the evidence supports that. I don't intend to ever challenge it.

I'm just awaiting the letter now and as you say will explain the situation.

With regards to offering a reasoning - basically the whole reason this has happened is that I've been moving flats and they accidentally charged me for both flats this month leaving me well into my overdraft until that money comes back to me. Is this worth mentioning in the letter as my reasoning for doing so?

I will of course be happy to pay any fine they see fit, as more than anything, I just don't want to end up with a criminal record.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm not going to sugar-coat this - there are a few problems here.

The first problem is you didn't buy at Sheffield which is always manned with staff and ticket machine. If this was a one-off you would have been given a penalty fare or a fine - or at the very least a ticking off. In any response you need to accept this was a mistake and for some reason you were hoping to buy on the train or at the destination.

The second one (and biggest of all) is you short fared. TOCs see that as a deliberate and pre-meditated attempt to defraud another person/entity. They'd rather you not buy a ticket at all and risk getting caught then (it's fair game in a way) than deliberately under-paying what they are correctly owed. If everyone travelled without a ticket they'd be caught and deterred. If everyone short-fared on journeys then the railways would be on their knees.

Lastly, the mis-use of M-tickets. If you had just bought a m-ticket from Stockport to Piccadilly then clearly it would not have been possible to get from Stockport to Piccadilly in 2 minutes. Many sadly abuse them by not buying a ticket before boarding, then only buying one on board or at the destination if a conductor comes rolling down the train or there is a manned ticket check/barriers active at the destination. This is an accepted problem so they will frown on this as well.

I'd write a letter apologising, showing contrition for your actions and that you have learnt your lesson and will never do it again (and hope they come to an out of court settlement). Just be careful not to use phrases like "offence" or "crime" and do their work for them - just that you see why your actions have a detrimental impact on the railways.

You sound upset at the aggressive ticket barrier staff but refrain from talking about staff unless they have done or said something wrong. I concede that some can be very disappointing in how they talk to passengers and I think the railway industry accepts this is a problem that an antagonistic approach is taken without any discretion too often. But please be aware alarm bells would have been ringing for numerous reasons set out above and why it could not simply be resolved with a standard fare.

With regards to the penalty fare from 4 years ago - this should not affect your response. Penalty fares are resolved there and then. If you had ended up in court for fare evasion from 4 years ago then different story.

Good advice IMHO. All of these points are true but none of it prevents a decent chance of settling out of court IMHO, which is the OP's aim now, having been clear what they did wrong, honest about it on here and keen to do the right thing. So long as that is clear in their apology I think they have every chance.

Staff will have seen the stockport ruse a mile off for any number of obvious reasons.

OP - good that you have a clear record of ticket purchases - you will only need that in worst case scenario but good that you have it. Keep an eye out for letter - could take up to 6 months but more likely to be in maybe next 4 weeks I would guess. Maybe slower if staff in the team that deal with this have Xmas leave etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2021 ==

With regards to offering a reasoning - basically the whole reason this has happened is that I've been moving flats and they accidentally charged me for both flats this month leaving me well into my overdraft until that money comes back to me. Is this worth mentioning in the letter as my reasoning for doing so?

To be frank probably not - they will have heard all the excuses under the sun, they just want to be sure you will never ever do it again and you have learned your lesson. Think about it the other way - if someone pickpocketed you or stole your bank card and used it would you be OK about it because their landlord had over charged them? Probably not I would guess - that is your problem not the railway's...

 

[drenge23]

Sorry WesternLancer, did you have any advice on the offering of a reasoning?

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry WesternLancer, did you have any advice on the offering of a reasoning?

Hard to know really - perhaps best to say eg 'it was a serious error of judgment on my part that I now regret, caused by some personal financial difficulties that I relaise are not an acceptable excuse for my actions' and leave it at that maybe.

 

[drenge23]

Thank you. Hopefully, once I receive my letter, I'll be given the opportunity to express my regret on all of this and make good by terms of payment. It's been a slog of a day to get through, there is lots of conflicting info online but I'm very thankful to you all for contributing and helping me feel that little bit better about the situation. It's safe to say, I will always buy the right train ticket now. I will let you know what happens from here on, and of course come back for advice on the next steps.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Here's the advice I normally give to other posters who seek our advice in similar circumstances.

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter when it arrives (with personal details removed) and I'm sure members on here will be happy to assist in proof reading your reply.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

so has it been established that OP bought ticket on phone or at the machine on overbridge?

also are Nt staff now looking at purchase time against inspection time ?

 

[plugwash]

It's well known that tickets are checked at Piccadilly, although there are no barriers as such.

There are some barriers, but you won't encounter them if you arrive on an EMR train and take the obvious route out of the station (If you arrive on a TPE train it's another matter). You are likely to encounter manual ticket checks though.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Hello,

I've been very silly. With Christmas coming up and money being short, I boarded an EMR train at Sheffield to Manchester Picadilly, I had forgotten to buy a ticket in advance as normally I buy the night before, in this case I'd forgotten. So I'd arrived in Manchester and thought well I could save some money by buying an open return from Stockport, when I got to the gate the Northern Trains woman scanned my ticket and then asked me to step to the side. I explained that I'd just bought the ticket and then I got grilled on the ins and outs of Stockport station so I just admitted what I had done and offered to pay for a new ticket. He told me he had the power to caution me, he didn't actually do it but said he had the power to. I offered to pay the fare for a new ticket there and then but was told that wasn't possible, the man got quite aggressive with me and asked me for ID (I don't carry mine as standard as I don't drive) but I proceeded to give him the full information.

He kept saying I would receive a letter so I pressed for information on what the letter would entail and he kept being cagey about it until I eventually got quite upset and visibly worried.

I have received a penalty once before about four years ago when I lived in Dronfield. This was completely not my fault though as their ticket machine wasn't working and the train conductor straight didn't believe me and I paid the fine on the spot.

I know what I did was wrong and would of course never risk this kind of thing again but with Christmas coming up, I wasn't thinking straight about the whole thing. I'm just wondering what the next steps might be? I am terribly worried about the whole scenario.

If the highlighted part happens to you again, next time, before getting the train, I would get a photo or video showing that the ticket machines weren't working, so that you can prove the issue to the conductor.

 

[drenge23]

Hello, I recieved my letter today and have drafted up the following response, please do let me know your thoughts:

Hello,

I would like to thank you for your letter and for giving me the chance to respond.

Firstly, I would like to express my deepest regret for my actions in this situation. I am incredibly sorry for what occurred.

I boarded the train at Sheffield Station but had a ticket from Stockport. I am aware that this was a breach of railway regulations, and I extend my utmost apologies for my actions.

Money has been incredibly tight recently – I have been in the process of moving flat and was mistakenly charged for both properties, leaving me well into my overdraft and with Christmas coming up, I was extremely worried about money.

I understand that this is in no way an excuse for my actions. I understand this instance and the many others that occur must be a huge burden on the rail system and I apologise wholeheartedly for contributing to this.

It is not something I ever intend to do again. the stress from these last few days of pondering my error alone has taught me a great deal.

To ensure this kind of incident doesn’t happen again, I am looking into a fixed season ticket for Sheffield to Manchester which I hope to purchase in the new year.

If it is possible, I would very much like to settle this matter outside of court. Please allow me to pay the train fare from Sheffield to Manchester plus any administrative costs incurred by yourselves or your on the ground staff, plus any other costs you have incurred as a result of my actions.

Best,

 

[Nova1]

Hello, I recieved my letter today and have drafted up the following response, please do let me know your thoughts:

Hello,

Firstly, I would like to express my deepest regret for my actions in this situation. I am incredibly sorry for what occurred.

Money has been incredibly tight recently – I have been in the process of moving flat and was mistakenly charged for both properties, leaving me well into my overdraft and with Christmas coming up, I was extremely worried about money.

I understand that this is in no way an excuse for my actions. I understand this instance and the many others that occur must be a huge burden on the rail system and I apologise wholeheartedly for contributing to this.

It is not something I ever intend to do again. the stress from these last few days of pondering my error alone has taught me a great deal.

If it is possible, I would very much like to settle this matter outside of court. I would be more than willing to pay the train fare from Sheffield to Manchester plus any administrative costs incurred by yourselves or your on the ground staff, plus any other costs you have incurred.

Thank you for taking the time to read my letter,

The second paragraph can go. They aren’t interested in your sob story, and if anything, just proves your intent to not pay.

 

[drenge23]

Thanks Nova, any additional notes?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello, I recieved my letter today and have drafted up the following response, please do let me know your thoughts:

Hello,

Firstly, I would like to express my deepest regret for my actions in this situation. I am incredibly sorry for what occurred.

Money has been incredibly tight recently – I have been in the process of moving flat and was mistakenly charged for both properties, leaving me well into my overdraft and with Christmas coming up, I was extremely worried about money.

I understand that this is in no way an excuse for my actions. I understand this instance and the many others that occur must be a huge burden on the rail system and I apologise wholeheartedly for contributing to this.

It is not something I ever intend to do again. the stress from these last few days of pondering my error alone has taught me a great deal.

If it is possible, I would very much like to settle this matter outside of court. I would be more than willing to pay the train fare from Sheffield to Manchester plus any administrative costs incurred by yourselves or your on the ground staff, plus any other costs you have incurred.

Thank you for taking the time to read my letter,

I've struck out some bits that I think you could manage without: in my view, you don't want to explain that you dodged your fare because money has been tight, as it would be open to the railway to ask what you will do the next time money is tight - as you are trying to convince them that you won't offend again, you don't want to suggest that you might possibly consider dodging your fare as a solution to your money worries again. And it's simpler just to explain that you are willing to pay all the costs that the railway has incurred.