Item dropped on track at unstaffed station.

[bramling]

Shouldn't they get the juice turned off?

In all likelihood - no. Staff are trained to be on the track with the current live, it's down to the individual's discretion and judgement whether they wish to request it off - if they do request then service control are duty bound to honour that request (though they may decide the delay will be too long in which case the item stays were it is).

If the member of staff feels confident to access the location with the juice on, then this is permissible.

Obviously staff would be wearing the correct PPE - which basically comprises uniform clothing plus approved thick-soled boots which are free from metal fixtures, and would follow the safety guidance, for example stepping over the live rail in a particular way. I should add that the member of staff would hold an appropriate licence, which proves they have received the relevant training (and are up to date with refreshers), and meet the required medical and physical standards.

Speaking from personal experience, I would only request the juice off if the object was touching or close to the live rail, or if it was awkward to recover without me going near the live rail - and even then there's always the option to use a wooden paddle. Even activities like scotching & clipping points can and are often done with the juice live - it all depends on the individual, the location and the situation.

Again, ideally one should be mindful about who is watching -- others may see staff close to the live rails and not realise the safety precautions being taken which are not immediately obvious if the member of staff is confident and experienced in what they are doing. I think its fair to say that the best way to treat the live rail is with respect, but not to be scared of it.
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Yes it is possible to do that on NR metals. You don't surrender your key ( except on the NCL ) but I have retrieved things from the track before using my train as protection. I take the key off and put the brake into emergency so I know the train can't be moved whilst I'm infront of it.

You should tell the signaller what you are doing first and confirm that your train is adequate protection. Only time I have not told the signaller was on a single line when someone dropper a bag infront of the train whilst stationary at a platform. I saw no need to cause further delays when I could just jump down, retrieve bag, close doors and carry on in seconds using my train as protection.

Interesting - thanks. It would seem therefore that at an unstaffed station, a polite conversation with a train crew could be the most expedient way of getting something recovered safely.

 

[jon0844]

Recently I had to remove a newspaper which had become caught on a tripcock tester. The consequence of not removing this newspaper would be that trains might start getting tripped, and then incurring delays whilst the safety procedures are followed.

How ironic that newspapers that love to slag off delays on the railway (or the tube) might cause those very delays!

 

[Muzer]

I've seen a plank of wood that a chav had chucked on the line once at an unstaffed station, I waited til this lad had buggered off and went to the signal at the end of the platform and rang the signalman to red light the area so that I could with his permission (which I got) to retirive the item remotely as it was on the rails. Luckily there were no trains coming for 20 minutes which was enough time to safely remove the said item. Once removed I rang the same signalman again to say that the object has been removed and it is safe to let trains pass.

Presumably as a passenger (I don't know if you're railway staff - obviously not station staff since you said it was unstaffed)? Surprising to me that the signaller gave you permission to get on the tracks, even if they had blocked the lines - but I don't know much about these sorts of rules, so maybe I'm just overcautious.

 

[carriageline]

Personally, if they wasn't a member of rail staff, I would not give them permission at all, just thank them for the report, stop trains/get a train to examine the line/caution from adjacent, and if necessary get people down there to sort it. Allowing a non member of staff to go on the line is dangerous, and I don't really believe it personally (any signaller encouraging any member of public onto the line should be looked at), unless he was a member of staff.


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[Tomnick]

Fully agree - I certainly wouldn't want to give permission to go on the line. A member of staff going on the line under the same circumstances would probably have to take a line blockage (or otherwise justify going red zone as part of their safe system of work...!), so I wouldn't be happy with an untrained member of the public going on the line with rather less protection - asking to "red light" the area (what does that even mean?!) is far too vague in any case. I think I'd still want to examine the line anyway (having received a definite report of an obstruction), as I wouldn't trust any member of the public to confirm that the line's clear and safe, so it wouldn't make much difference anyway.

 

[carriageline]

That's it mate! The general public wouldn't know things like how slippery sleepers get, various tripping hazards, getting feet trapped in point blades etc. and again, agreed with examining the line, soon as I wrote that I realised I wouldn't necessarily trust the public, both in the case of what line it's on, and also if there is anything there at all! (Prank calls etc etc), plus if I know a train is sitting there, and a MOM/Pway/S&T are 45 minutes away from helping, I would rather tell the driver he circumstances, drop him down and work out together on how to get it moved!


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[edwin_m]

Off topic, but I was reading an old accident report last night (Wembley 1984) where one of the passengers was Richard Hope, longstanding editor of the Railway Gazette. He assisted the crew with placing track circuit clips and evacuating passengers and the report recorded the thanks of the railway management to him for doing so. How things change!