Issues between Filey and Seamer

[mike57]

Trains are currently being delayed by 10-15 minutes between Filey and Seamer. According to National Rail and Northern websites this is caused by a 'track defect' causing a speed restriction to be put in place. Does anyone know whats happened, as the 6 miles between the two stations are taking up to 20 minutes, so it would appear that the speed restriction is over quite a distance as the normal journey time is 10 minutes, and its been going on for about a week now.

Update: This disruption is ongoing, it began around a week ago, and looks likely to continue for at least a week, with a current end date of 22nd September. We use the services on this line once or twice a week and it is making journey planning difficult.

 

[rmHawk765]

Trains are currently being delayed by 10-15 minutes between Filey and Seamer. According to National Rail and Northern websites this is caused by a 'track defect' causing a speed restriction to be put in place. Does anyone know whats happened, as the 6 miles between the two stations are taking up to 20 minutes, so it would appear that the speed restriction is over quite a distance as the normal journey time is 10 minutes, and its been going on for about a week now.

There are plenty of areas where speed restrictions are causing residual delays, often with no information on the National Rail site at all. It's just a matter of time, eventually the problems causing all the restrictions will be rectified.

 

[mike57]

There are plenty of areas where speed restrictions are causing residual delays, often with no information on the National Rail site at all. It's just a matter of time, eventually the problems causing all the restrictions will be rectified.

This is more than 'residual delays,' because of the fairly short turnaround at Scarborough, with both North and southbound services picking up 10mins + delays there have been cancellations and disruption, They are now timetabling the southbound departure to leave Scarborough 10 minutes earlier at XX:50, but it is often not arriving until XX:52.

 

[rmHawk765]

This is more than 'residual delays,' because of the fairly short turnaround at Scarborough, with both North and southbound services picking up 10mins + delays there have been cancellations and disruption, They are now timetabling the southbound departure to leave Scarborough 10 minutes earlier at XX:50, but it is often not arriving until XX:52.

Not long ago my local line was suffering with similar issues with constant 'safety inspections' causing cancellations (for the exact same reason of short turnarounds) in the middle of the peak which isn't ideal for a London commuter line operating at max capacity given its current frequency... eventually this stopped but not all the speed restrictions have gone, and some have been added since.

Where things have gotten really bad a temporary timetable has been put in place, notably on parts of Southern (where punctuality is still a mess due to the track, there's not much more that can be done really) and the entire c2c network. I do agree though that perhaps this should be used on other lines too as it's a pretty big issue when you literally can't run the service because no train can get anywhere on time...

Generally we are good with making temporary alterations to timetables to prevent predictable late running, but this time round with the heatwaves I can't disagree that this has somewhat gone out the window.

 

[Starmill]

There was a 30 mile / hour restriction near Hunmanby and another one near Seamer for track defects last week. Someone who has had use of this week's Won would probably know what's out there today.

 

[Bodiam]

Yes, we were on a train last Monday (7 Sept) which was terminated at Filey because of "track problems" and at least the train before and after were as well. We eventually got the regular bus on to Scarborough as it was unclear whether there would be a RRB and if so, when. Filey being unstaffed when we were there didn't help.

 

[Starmill]

Yes, we were on a train last Monday (7 Sept) which was terminated at Filey because of "track problems" and at least the train before and after were as well. We eventually got the regular bus on to Scarborough as it was unclear whether there would be a RRB and if so, when. Filey being unstaffed when we were there didn't help.

That is quite disappointing, I would encourage you to submit a complaint about that. Some contact info is available here: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/legal/complaints-procedure

Have you already submitted any request for delay repay? If not, you could use the complaint form and potentially mention you'd be happy to accept a voucher for another journey in leiu of compensation if that were to suit you. Otherwise I'd definitely ask for at least some money out of your ticket price back.

 

[syorksdeano]

I believe Northern have brought in an emergency timetable

 

[mike57]

I believe Northern have brought in an emergency timetable

Yes they have, and are on about version 3 or 4 of it. It still has the problem of insufficent turn around time at Scarborough. Trains are now timetabled to leave at XX:50 instead of XX:00 to put them back in path by Bridlington, but are frequently not arriving until around XX:57.

Beyond 'track faults' and 'safety inspections' no one has been able identify what the real problem is that is causing a 10 minute average delay

 

[Notabene]

Hopefully, normal service will be resumed on Wednesday.

Selby to Hull also has problems.

Timings on the line are quite tight. The York to Brid stopping service (xx00 from Hull) can cause delays to the following Scarborough train (xx21 ex Hull)
Long block sections either side of Driffield make things difficult. The long single line (10 miles) north of Brid is another difficulty.

Many trains linger at Hunmanby waiting for the line to clear southwards.

Fixing the single line section with an extra loop around Bempton would be expensive.
However, the delays north of Beverley (an 11 minute block section)could be eased by installing IB signals at Beswick and Burton Agnes. This would provide resilience on the busiest stretch.

 

[Barnsley]

Emergency timetable on for the rest of this week now, this is the reason given

Time of incident and location: 13:56 (07/09/26) - Grove Farm Level Crossing to Carr House Farm Level Crossing, between Filey and Scarborough Description of incident: Distorted rail reported

 

[mike57]

The long single line (10 miles) north of Brid is another difficulty.

Many trains linger at Hunmanby waiting for the line to clear southwards.

Fixing the single line section with an extra loop around Bempton would be expensive.

As a regular user of this section, the issues appear quite frequently. The currently hourly service north of Brid is a big improvement over the pre 2019 service, and makes the service to and from Bempton usable. (previously miss a train and you were faced with up to 2 hours wait), but it also means that the Bridlington Hunmanby section struggles to path any additional services, e.g. the East Yorkshireman which was planned for a couple of weekends ago.

Considering the infrastructure the service on the whole is pretty good, apart from the recent issues delays do occur but dont tend to be major, we have decent rolling stock for the most part (Class 170's) and with the southbound service carrying on to Doncaster and Sheffield after Hull onward connections to places further afield in that direction are usually fairly easy. The difficult journeys are those heading North, ECML Darlington and northwards. They tend to be expensive and involve changes and waits.

The second platform is still in place at Bempton (just, very overgrown), but I cant see there being any hope of adding a loop and bringing the old platform back into use, and where ever trains are timetabled to cross, one delay carries forward into the passing service. Unless you returned the whole section to double track I dont think you would see any significant improvement in service reliability, and that will never happen.

 

[Russel]

The second platform is still in place at Bempton (just, very overgrown), but I cant see there being any hope of adding a loop and bringing the old platform back into use, and where ever trains are timetabled to cross, one delay carries forward into the passing service. Unless you returned the whole section to double track I dont think you would see any significant improvement in service reliability, and that will never happen.

Agreed, a second platform at Bempton would achieve very little.

Given how much single track there is coupled with how far the services have come from before hitting the single track section, Sheffield, Doncaster, Hull, it's very easy to import delays which then cause a domino effect.

 

[Notabene]

Delays imported from York or Sheffield are often exacerbated by the long block sections north of Beverley. IB signals or full track circuiting with extra signals could halve the blocks and improve resilience for trains presenting for the single line north of Bridlington.

Also, the dynamic loop between Filey and Hunmanby is not used to best advantage. Trains arriving from Scarborough at Hunmanby have to wait for northbound trains to arrive. A slightly later departure from Scarborough would allow trains to pass in the middle of the loop. XX03 or 04 from both Bridlington and Scarborough would achieve this.
The Sheffield bound trains often present early at Doncaster by up to 5 minutes. If there is no conflict at Hull, a later departure from Scarborough may be possible.

When trains are delayed the inflexibility of the long blocks between Beverley, Driffield and Bridlington becomes apparent. It's not just the single line sections that cause problems.

 

[Metroman62]

The revised timetable appears to make connections at Seamer very difficult. We have friends who travel from Leeds to Filey and change at Seamer with a usual few minutes connection. Now their train from York often arrives just after the train to Filey and beyond has left, resulting in an almost hour delay / wait at Seamer. Those that don’t know Seamer station will not appreciate how much fun that is. Rather than wait, they pay for a taxi. So they are not happy!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Now their train from York often arrives just after the train to Filey and beyond has left, resulting in an almost hour delay / wait at Seamer. Those that don’t know Seamer station will not appreciate how much fun that is.

@Metroman62. Fully agree. Seamer is a miserable station in any weather. In such circumstances, isn't is possible (or permitted) to continue into Scarborough and wait there for the next Filey train?

 

[mike57]

Those that don’t know Seamer station will not appreciate how much fun that is.

Fully agree. In such circumstances, isn't is possible (or permitted) to continue into Scarborough and wait there for the next train for Filey?

Played that game many times over the years. On one occasion some years ago a Northern service was sat in the platform, and the Northern guard continued with door closure even as the TPE train was drawing to a stop. He completely ignored about 10 angry passengers getting off the TPE service to connect with Yorkshire Coast service, and this was pre 2019, so a 90 minute wait.

I have been on delayed TPE services where passengers for the Yorkshire Coast are advised to continue to Scarborough and wait there 'owing to the lack of shelter and facilities' at Seamer. Its just about OK in Summer, but winter time, blowing a gale, heavy rain, cold and very unpleasant.

For those that dont know it, its an island platform, accessed via a signal interlocked pedestrian gate over the Scarborough bound track. There are two partly open shelters, which dont have proper seats and are cold draughty and wet if the wind is the wrong way, and a few benches in the open. In the immediate area there is nothing other than housing. You can see Morrisons from the platform, but its the other side of the main A64, and that assumes you know the route, which is down a footpath.

 

[Russel]

Played that game many times over the years. On one occasion some years ago a Northern service was sat in the platform, and the Northern guard continued with door closure even as the TPE train was drawing to a stop. He completely ignored about 10 angry passengers getting off the TPE service to connect with Yorkshire Coast service, and this was pre 2019, so a 90 minute wait.

Things like this really annoy me, waiting would have cost about a minute in delay to the Northern service but would have saved 10 passengers 90 minutes, it would have been a real passenger friendly thing to do, rather than giving them the middle finger...

 

[3RDGEN]

Delays imported from York or Sheffield are often exacerbated by the long block sections north of Beverley. IB signals or full track circuiting with extra signals could halve the blocks and improve resilience for trains presenting for the single line north of Bridlington.

Also, the dynamic loop between Filey and Hunmanby is not used to best advantage. Trains arriving from Scarborough at Hunmanby have to wait for northbound trains to arrive. A slightly later departure from Scarborough would allow trains to pass in the middle of the loop. XX03 or 04 from both Bridlington and Scarborough would achieve this.
The Sheffield bound trains often present early at Doncaster by up to 5 minutes. If there is no conflict at Hull, a later departure from Scarborough may be possible.

When trains are delayed the inflexibility of the long blocks between Beverley, Driffield and Bridlington becomes apparent. It's not just the single line sections that cause problems.

The Scarborough - Sheffield services pass at Doncaster meaning the ECML is only blocked for a few minutes each hour, the TPE Cleethorpes services do the same, I would guess it's this that dictates the timings of the service from Scarborough - Hull - Doncaster.

 

[Notabene]

The limitations of the layout at Hull do not help. Simultaneous arrivals/departures from the branch are not possible etc.

When Bridlington was resignalled there was talk of track circuiting the block to Driffield.

Between Bridlington and Seamer, could speeds be improved? On the 1 in 92 climb the 170s have to brake in order not to exceed the 50mph PSR between Sewerby and Bempton. Could the Bempton-Hunmanby section increase from 60 to 70?

Class 101s could do Bridlington to Hunmanby in 17 minutes. The timetable now allows 16 minutes yet nearly all trains are 100mph turbostars.

 

[mike57]

Could the Bempton-Hunmanby section increase from 60 to 70?

I am sure I have read somewhere that it used to be 65mph. I dont know why it was changed (if it was). Track is fairly straight, and is continuous welded rail apart from a short section in Bempton station. There are two level crossings, Buckton and Speeton until you approach Hunmanby station

 

[Barnsley]

The limitations of the layout at Hull do not help. Simultaneous arrivals/departures from the branch are not possible etc.

When Bridlington was resignalled there was talk of track circuiting the block to Driffield.

Between Bridlington and Seamer, could speeds be improved? On the 1 in 92 climb the 170s have to brake in order not to exceed the 50mph PSR between Sewerby and Bempton. Could the Bempton-Hunmanby section increase from 60 to 70?

Class 101s could do Bridlington to Hunmanby in 17 minutes. The timetable now allows 16 minutes yet nearly all trains are 100mph turbostars.

The joys of the single lead junction out of Hull, there’s a scissor point, then a single line which diverges, then immediately diverges to the wash road for access to BG, then immediately doubles to the up and down Bridlington, which is bi-directionally signalled as far as the crossover after Walton Street crossing

 

[Purple Train]

Delays imported from York or Sheffield are often exacerbated by the long block sections north of Beverley. IB signals or full track circuiting with extra signals could halve the blocks and improve resilience for trains presenting for the single line north of Bridlington.

Also, the dynamic loop between Filey and Hunmanby is not used to best advantage. Trains arriving from Scarborough at Hunmanby have to wait for northbound trains to arrive. A slightly later departure from Scarborough would allow trains to pass in the middle of the loop. XX03 or 04 from both Bridlington and Scarborough would achieve this.
The Sheffield bound trains often present early at Doncaster by up to 5 minutes. If there is no conflict at Hull, a later departure from Scarborough may be possible.

When trains are delayed the inflexibility of the long blocks between Beverley, Driffield and Bridlington becomes apparent. It's not just the single line sections that cause problems.

Indeed. It surprised me very much to learn, when I was on a delayed Scarborough service which was in turn following a delayed Bridlington stopper, that we had to wait just outside Beverley for 10 minutes until the 155 had got past Driffield!

Played that game many times over the years. On one occasion some years ago a Northern service was sat in the platform, and the Northern guard continued with door closure even as the TPE train was drawing to a stop. He completely ignored about 10 angry passengers getting off the TPE service to connect with Yorkshire Coast service, and this was pre 2019, so a 90 minute wait.

I have been on delayed TPE services where passengers for the Yorkshire Coast are advised to continue to Scarborough and wait there 'owing to the lack of shelter and facilities' at Seamer. Its just about OK in Summer, but winter time, blowing a gale, heavy rain, cold and very unpleasant.

For those that dont know it, its an island platform, accessed via a signal interlocked pedestrian gate over the Scarborough bound track. There are two partly open shelters, which dont have proper seats and are cold draughty and wet if the wind is the wrong way, and a few benches in the open. In the immediate area there is nothing other than housing. You can see Morrisons from the platform, but its the other side of the main A64, and that assumes you know the route, which is down a footpath.

It is a bleak place to wait, I agree. I may have misremembered the story, but when I was very young, I remember driving an elderly relative who lived in York to Seamer, in order to catch the direct train. For some reason, we got to the station just too late to catch it. Rather than leave our visitor on the inhospitable platform, we decided to drive round to Morrisons for a cup of tea to wait the hour. We drove back to the station just in time to see the second train accelerate away towards Malton...