Island Line Railway - current state and the future

[A0]

5x3 seems sensible.
Just thinking if space tight you could stable a couple in Sandown sidings with a bit of work to bring them up to scratch.

3 car would be overkill - the D78s are 2 m longer per car than the 483s are in any case.

And the passenger usage - even if it increased by 10% overnight (which is unlikely) - doesn't justify longer units.

 

[jon0844]

3 car would be overkill - the D78s are 2 m longer per car than the 483s are in any case.

And the passenger usage - even if it increased by 10% overnight (which is unlikely) - doesn't justify longer units.

You'd probably want the option to expand, as we've found all over that if you improve a service then the 'people will come'. It seems sensible therefore to allow for some growth, rather than just find a solution to keep things ticking along as before.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You'd probably want the option to expand, as we've found all over that if you improve a service then the 'people will come'. It seems sensible therefore to allow for some growth, rather than just find a solution to keep things ticking along as before.

Agreed. The present service is, while interesting for enthusiasts, a load of garbage - it's not really a lot more than a preserved railway with a subsidy. It's not entirely unlikely that significant improvements (more modern stock, toilets, a proper half hourly service) might not bring on the "sparks effect" and attract a fair whack of new passengers, particularly from the bus.

 

[The_Engineer]

The one part that would make sense to use batteries would be the pier

It is quite possible that a small traction battery could be fitted as per the Class 230 diesel units. This would help to recover regenerative braking energy if the third rail is not receptive, and (if suitably sized) could do the pier section of the duty.

 

[A0]

You'd probably want the option to expand, as we've found all over that if you improve a service then the 'people will come'. It seems sensible therefore to allow for some growth, rather than just find a solution to keep things ticking along as before.

Then run as 2 x 2 car - which is what they used to do at high season. The IoW's traffic is very seasonal - there's no point in running empty trains around in winter.

5 x 2 car units ought to suffice even if they reverted back to a 30 min clockface timetable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With revenue never likely to be done by anyone other than the guard, a through gangway is a significant advantage.

 

[K.o.R]

With revenue never likely to be done by anyone other than the guard, a through gangway is a significant advantage.

Never stopped them before

 

[Flinn Reed]

I think that's just a slightly odd way of saying that they raised their concerns about the pier, and also about the height of the newer trains.



It seems the D78s do (more or less) but 313s are longer so would, at best, be a tighter fit through the tunnel, bridges on curves and the depot at Ryde while increasing the platform gap at Esplanade. Aside from gauging they are also heavier, more complex and in worse condition than the D78s.

There's also the Southern 313s, plus similar Class 314s and 315s - so whichever stock is in the best condition could be used.

 

[AndrewE]

With revenue never likely to be done by anyone other than the guard, a through gangway is a significant advantage.

Don't worry! 2 non-gangwayed sets will provide summer revenue-collection (i.e. conductor) jobs for locals or students, as I believe Blackpool Tramways used to.

 

[jon0844]

We went to IoW today and nobody came to sell tickets. People sat with money in their hands, and the guard said if he couldn't come through then just buy a single coming back - with a smile on his face. He never came through!

At Sandown everything was shut and locked up (despite it being a bank holiday weekend) so I expect a number of people didn't get a ticket then either.

If people don't get through tickets then I wonder how many don't pay at all?

 

[Mikey C]

Can't the conductor just use the normal passenger doors to access the next carriage via the platform? Or failing that the emergency end doors if it's raining!

 

[MML]

Sounds like a lack of decent management to me.
As if the whole line is failing due to lack of investment, yet nobody can be bothered collecting fares or providing means to buy them.
No wonder it's making a loss.

SWR should be providing new and serviceable ticket machines at every station, with guards conducting revenue protection.
Only then can the revenue hope to cover costs.

 

[jon0844]

Sounds like a lack of decent management to me.
As if the whole line is failing due to lack of investment, yet nobody can be bothered collecting fares or providing means to buy them.
No wonder it's making a loss.

SWR should be providing new and serviceable ticket machines at every station, with guards conducting revenue protection.
Only then can the revenue hope to cover costs.

Every station has a card reader for their smartcards (not that I saw a single one touched by anyone) so I assume in the week when there are any commuters, they pay and there are some occasional revenue blocks?

If not you could consider the whole line to be free unless you sit right best to the guard in the same carriage s/he is in.

 

[E759]

Been a couple of times this year and local users seem to pay on demand only... If the guard didn't come round or didn't reach them, busy selling tickets, then free ride...

 

[TEW]

I think I have had a ticket check every time I have used the Island Line. The guards are able to switch between the two carriages at stations. They can't collect every fare, but they always seem to make an effort to collect as many as possible.

 

[Clayton]

Bit hopeless if they arent committed to getting every fare, isnt it? Is it actually the case that replacing the island system with new electric buses would make sense?

 

[E759]

I'd follow the model deployed on other islands and run the entire rail network as a heritage attraction in its own right. That would make more sense.

 

[jon0844]

I'd follow the model deployed on other islands and run the entire rail network as a heritage attraction in its own right. That would make more sense.

I think for a lot of people these trains make it feel like a heritage line already. One that it appears is often free to travel on, which is very much NOT like a heritage line.

Clearly the line is 'safe' in terms of the franchise, but you do always have to wonder if not actively protecting revenue is a way to show a lack of demand that will, one day, prompt a major change (and not for the better).

 

[TEW]

Bit hopeless if they arent committed to getting every fare, isnt it? Is it actually the case that replacing the island system with new electric buses would make sense?

I don't think there is any railway in the country where every fare is collected. The Island Line never seems that bad to me, no worse than any other paytrain in the country.

 

[DenmarkRail]

In terms of revenue collection, barriers should be installed at all the stations.

 

[philthetube]

I think for a lot of people these trains make it feel like a heritage line already. One that it appears is often free to travel on, which is very much NOT like a heritage line.

Clearly the line is 'safe' in terms of the franchise, but you do always have to wonder if not actively protecting revenue is a way to show a lack of demand that will, one day, prompt a major change (and not for the better).

It is in the interest of the operator to not run it down, leading to closure. (Unlike BR days)

 

[jon0844]

I don't think there is any railway in the country where every fare is collected. The Island Line never seems that bad to me, no worse than any other paytrain in the country.

I assume that either paytrains work the same (i.e. missing lots of fares) or perhaps have longer stops to enable the guard to walk through?

If that's how other trains operate in the UK then it's amazing that we still have rural services at all. It can only be because they're protected that they're safe, but as franchises come and go and historical data is analysed, it must surely put them at risk?

This is why I got so upset when my local bus operator had regular issues with their ticket machine such that they usually let people travel for free, if they hadn't already purchased a ticket/pass. People were so happy to not pay, but the bus service only ran thanks to S106 funding. When that ended, the bus was axed because it didn't raise enough money. Well duh!

 

[leytongabriel]

Just to add to the voices that fares collection seems at best erratic, a whole lot of people getting on at Smallbrook Junc had free rides the last time I went. Which might partially at least account for the low official usage figures for that station.

 

[A0]

There's also the Southern 313s, plus similar Class 314s and 315s - so whichever stock is in the best condition could be used.

314s and 315s are 25kv only - unlike the 313s which are dual voltage, so not suitable without quite alot of modification.

The 507s and 508s would be more suitable as DC only units however I doubt they're in significantly better condition than the 313s are.

 

[A0]

Just to add to the voices that fares collection seems at best erratic, a whole lot of people getting on at Smallbrook Junc had free rides the last time I went. Which might partially at least account for the low official usage figures for that station.

I suspect those people had arrived at the IoWSR from Smallbrook Junction hence had already paid a fare on their way in.

 

[richardderby]

there used to be ticket machines at Ryde pier head and Shanklin, but i could not see them last week when i was there, so it appears they were removed, they were introduced from the late 80's, so perhaps they were life expired. http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ascom_B8050_Quickfare
There should still be some means of buying a ticket at Ryde pier head though, must lose no end of revenue, especially the short hop into Ryde town.

 

[swt_passenger]

there used to be ticket machines at Ryde pier head and Shanklin, but i could not see them last week when i was there, so it appears they were removed, they were introduced from the late 80's, so perhaps they were life expired. http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ascom_B8050_Quickfare
There should still be some means of buying a ticket at Ryde pier head though, must lose no end of revenue, especially the short hop into Ryde town.

Won’t a significant majority arriving by ferry already have through tickets?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Won’t a significant majority arriving by ferry already have through tickets?

A lot will. I do wonder if they might manage to get into an agreement with Wightlink to include it in all ferry tickets (discouraging car use) and thus make that section free.

 

[Rick1984]

Not sure but you might be able to get ticket from Wightlink ticket office.
In fact I'm pretty sure you can as I've used a rail warrant and 2together to get train tickets & ferry from there

 

[jon0844]

You can get through tickets with the catamaran service, but perhaps people don't realise this.

The ticket machines for Wightlink may or may not do them but when we travelled they were doing kids go free and it seemed the machine didn't offer the promotion or advertise it, which seemed a little off. Rather like rail TVMs that don't offer super off peak tickets at weekends and the like.

I bet a fair few people don't know you could also buy your Island Line tickets from any station on the mainland too. Some tourists in particular may buy everything individually if they have not gone through a travel agent or manned ticket office.