Is working hard worth it?

[asw22]

I studied hard till 1am and got A grades at A level in Maths, Further Math, Physics and Chemistry.

Despite being the first person in my family to get into university (one of the top few in the country) and graduating, I spent 1 year unemployed, then 10 years in a call centre.

I got a basic temp job after redundancy and worked my way up to a permanent role only to be made redundant again due to a company takeover caused by the energy price cap. Even working from 8am to 7 / 8pm was not enough to try to save the company.

It took me nearly 1500 job applications and countless Zoom / Teams interviews to just get a temp job at 25% lower salary than I had received in my previous role. Now following cuts of up to 40% in staff by the government at NHS Digital, I will probably lose this job as well

Despite taking on extra courses in Python and PowerBI which apparently in demand, this is not my experience. My experience in West Yorkshire is that there are no genuine jobs available, just adverts.

With a rent increase of 15% back in January and an already 25% salary cut I wonder is it worth it, because despite putting extra hours in (unpaid) I am a lot worse off now than a year or so ago – indeed back to 2015 with no disposable income, but with astronomical energy prices and inflation on the horizon.

I’m not the only one struggling but is working hard worth it?

 

[yorkie]

I studied hard till 1am and got A grades at A level in Maths, Further Math, Physics and Chemistry.

Despite being the first person in my family to get into university (one of the top few in the country) and graduating, I spent 1 year unemployed, then 10 years in a call centre.

What work experience did you have at the time of graduation?

I got a basic temp job after redundancy and worked my way up to a permanent role only to be made redundant again due to a company takeover caused by the energy price cap. Even working from 8am to 7 / 8pm was not enough to try to save the company.

It took me nearly 1500 job applications and countless Zoom / Teams interviews to just get a temp job at 25% lower salary than I had received in my previous role. Now following cuts of up to 40% in staff by the government at NHS Digital, I will probably lose this job as well

Despite taking on extra courses in Python and PowerBI which apparently in demand, this is not my experience. My experience in West Yorkshire is that there are no genuine jobs available, just adverts.

Sorry to hear that. There are companies really struggling to recruit the right person but there is often a mismatch between the employee's abilities/experience/qualifications and what the employer wants.

With a rent increase of 15% back in January and an already 25% salary cut I wonder is it worth it, because despite putting extra hours in (unpaid) I am a lot worse off now than a year or so ago – indeed back to 2015 with no disposable income, but with astronomical energy prices and inflation on the horizon.

I’m not the only one struggling but is working hard worth it?

Yes but hard work alone isn't the only piece of the equation; it depends on your personality, knowledge, skills and much more.

I'm in the fortunate position of having to turn down opportunities and being able to do multiple different roles.

Are you based in Yorkshire now? If so the forum will happily pay for your food if you'd like to join us at a forum meal (we typically have about one Yorkshire meal per months) and depending on the areas of work you want to go into, some of those present may be able to help you and give you some tips.

 

[Iskra]

It’s a tough one, at my workplace, hard work was previously very well rewarded. This year things have changed a bit, but you have to take the rough with the smooth and make hay while the sun shines, you can’t expect good times forever. There’s a popular saying that you don’t get rich working for other people and I’ve found ways of making additional cash during the pandemic by investing in stocks/commodities and by setting up my own business. These are a nice bit of extra cash, but they don’t (yet) provide a stable guaranteed monthly income, which is the reason I still go to work. I feel sorry for you getting made redundant but for me, I’d not be unhappy if that happened to me as I’ve got a good length of service and I’d just see it as a push to do something more worthwhile or go ‘all in’ with my business.

Have you considered relocating? Or applying for remote working roles that are advertised in other locations?

If you’re continually working hard and doing long hours, but not getting anywhere, I’d be questioning why you’re doing long hours. Also, working long hours isn’t necessarily a good thing as it makes you less productive so it’s self-defeating when it’s not just a short term thing to get through a peak, or a some sort of immediate challenge.

As sad as it is sometimes progression is as much about if your face fits or being in the right place at the right time as it is any actual ability.

 

[simonw]

I studied hard till 1am and got A grades at A level in Maths, Further Math, Physics and Chemistry.

Despite being the first person in my family to get into university (one of the top few in the country) and graduating, I spent 1 year unemployed, then 10 years in a call centre.

I got a basic temp job after redundancy and worked my way up to a permanent role only to be made redundant again due to a company takeover caused by the energy price cap. Even working from 8am to 7 / 8pm was not enough to try to save the company.

It took me nearly 1500 job applications and countless Zoom / Teams interviews to just get a temp job at 25% lower salary than I had received in my previous role. Now following cuts of up to 40% in staff by the government at NHS Digital, I will probably lose this job as well
Despite taking on extra courses in Python and PowerBI which apparently in demand, this is not my experience. My experience in West Yorkshire is that there are no genuine jobs available, just adverts.

With a rent increase of 15% back in January and an already 25% salary cut I wonder is it worth it, because despite putting extra hours in (unpaid) I am a lot worse off now than a year or so ago – indeed back to 2015 with no disposable income, but with astronomical energy prices and inflation on the horizon.

I’m not the only one struggling but is working hard worth it?

I'm sorry to hear where you have found yourself, but it is hard to tell from what you have written why your career has taken the path it did. What degree did you get, what grade? What kind of jobs did you apply for on graduation and why did you spend ten years in a call centre? are some of the questions that spring to mind.

 

[Sorcerer]

I don't know much about this mad world, but I'm confident enough to say that hard work alone isn't enough to get by. Hard pill to swallow, but one that everyone needs to take. Truth is, luck also plays a large part in success, luck here being defined as opportunity meeting circumstances. For example, one could easily work hard at university hoping to become a forensic scientist, but that line of work itself has more supply than demand, so if you aren't lucky enough to get the opportunity at a point in life where you can accept it (circumstances) then your hard work practically means nothing. Don't let that put you off putting in a good day's work, but just bare this in mind and don't let it consume you.

 

[johntea]

I think for a young person apprenticeships are a fantastic option, you get the best of both worlds as you're gaining experience on a job whilst also studying - plus not always guaranteed of course but a full time role in the company the apprentice is working in may come up over the course of the apprenticeship and if they've performed well they have a good chance of being offered it

Grades and textbooks will only get you so far in life as (no offense intended here!) most people can read through a book and gain enough knowledge to pass an exam in a subject for a piece of paper (especially when in some cases the exact exam questions are leaked online so it just becomes a memory game) - employers want to see some real life experiences

I noticed you mentioned NHS Digital, have you tried applying for some roles in actual hospitals? I know for a fact developer type roles frequently come up in Yorkshire ones at Band 6 and Band 7 levels, as they're starting to get more access to tools such as PowerBI than ever before

Also working in IT I used to be one of those who would set up a home lab, work extra hours to get things fixed, now I strictly work to my 37.5 hours that I'm actually paid for and only do extra work if they're willing to pay for the extra time...you wouldn't expect a surgeon to go home and start cutting up a family member's body

 

[Typhoon]

Like other posters, I am truly sorry to read of your plight. Unfortunately, it is a tough world out there but, as you have found, hard work alone is not enough.

As with others, a few things come to mind. It my well be that you already do these but if just one comment, here or elsewhere, causes you to think about some aspect of your application, it is worth it.

The number of applications surprises me (maybe it shouldn't) but, although it probably cheers up the DWP, is each application customised to meet the expressed needs of the employer? When I assisted in shortlisting candidates, getting rid of 90% of the applications (at least), the chance of anyone who didn't demonstrate how they met the 'Essentials' and most of the 'Desireables' clearly was likely to be discarded pretty quickly.

As @simonw writes, ten years at a call centre is a long time. Expect to be asked about that, you really do need to have a very sound answer. If you were promoted or given a more responsible role during that time, ensure it is noted - no need for depth. (I would be surprised if I lasted ten days.)

You have taken courses in Python and PowerBI. Do you have qualifications in these? (and, this isn't intended to be an insult, real ones.) I ask because I worked in a college and know colleges give out 'College certificates', I had one once, probably chucked it. Is there any way of showing your skills in the same way that say an art student does? (Probably needs a face to face interview). It could be that potential employers are not aware of the level of your skills. As @johntea writes - it should largely be down to what you have actually done. Be positive, 'this is what I can do'.

Sorry some of this may sound harsh, it isn't meant to be

Lastly, please take @yorkie up on his offer (#2). Lots of pluses - free meal, good company, you will find there are people on your side (some will have been there), and someone may come up with 'Have you tried ....' that may turn out to be the start of a new career

 

[Yew]

Is there any way of showing your skills in the same way that say an art student does? (Probably needs a face to face interview).

If I were is the OP's situation, I would look to contribute to open source projects on GitHub. It doesn't need to be complicated work, it could just be improving documentation or small code quality improvements. This gives you the beginnings of a portfolio, and really shows a good attitude.

 

[Typhoon]

If I were is the OP's situation, I would look to contribute to open source projects on GitHub. It doesn't need to be complicated work, it could just be improving documentation or small code quality improvements. This gives you the beginnings of a portfolio, and really shows a good attitude.

If I could like this, I would!!

 

[Cloud Strife]

If I were is the OP's situation, I would look to contribute to open source projects on GitHub. It doesn't need to be complicated work, it could just be improving documentation or small code quality improvements. This gives you the beginnings of a portfolio, and really shows a good attitude.

One other good option is to get involved with things like bug testing for open source projects. There are never enough testers, and my hobby (bug hunting for a particular project) was warmly received by a company that I wanted to cooperate with on a freelance basis. I'm not a coder, but the fact that I have a fairly substantial amount of bugs reported on Github for the project opened the door for me.

 

[Bovverboy]

I’m not the only one struggling but is working hard worth it?

You were told by your teachers at school that if you worked hard and got qualifications you would get a 'good' job. ('Good' not defined). What they meant was, if you worked hard and got qualifications, they themselves would get the credit.

 

[telstarbox]

Working *smart* is worth it - automating repetitive work where you can, dropping unproductive tasks, working with colleagues to share the load, sharing best practice with others.

Routinely working long hours isn't worth it and should be avoided. You'll never get that time back!

 

[Foxhunter]

I support almost all the comments above. A couple of observations from my own career (now retired).

Is working hard worth it? - Yes, for the vast majority of people it is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for success. But just doing more of the same may not always be the correct approach. Perhaps more hours improving your skills may be a better use of your time than processing more at the office. You mention taking courses (good!), I agree with the suggestions above that you may want to find ways of demonstrating to potential employers that you have acquired and used this knowledge.

More than a few times in my career I looked at people around the organisations I worked in that seemed to be regarded as key employees and tried to work out why, then set about acquiring those characterstics/knowledge/relationships/behaviours/whatever. You mention your current position - perhaps make a mental list of the people that you think will be safe if there is a round of redundancies, work out why you have put them on your list, then see if you can apply that to yourself.

In extremis you may have to relocate. I twice moved to areas of the country where I knew nobody, in order to further my career. But there is a degree of luck involved in this. Take advice wherever you can get it, use the insights that make sense to you and that you can adapt to your situation. Consider consulting a Life Coach - I know someone who got a very positive outcome from this after many failed job applications.

Edit: really bad spelling mistake corrected

 

[Broucek]

In extremis you may have to relocate. I twice moved to areas of the country where I new nobody, in order to further my career. But there is a degree of luck involved in this. Take advice wherever you can get it, use the insights that make sense to you and that you can adapt to your situation. Consider consulting a Life Coach - I know someone who got a very positive outcome from this after many failed job applications.

I work in HR and most companies are really struggling to get and keep people In this context, I think the advice from Foxhunter is very good. In particular:

1. Take advice. A life coach is a good idea. Also, who do you know (current or former classmates, colleagues, bosses and/or someone you know socially who makes hiring decisions, even if in a different field etc) that you can go to for some honest feedback about why you're a little "stuck"?
2. Consider moving. My own job is virtually non-existent outside London

Getting advice on here was a good start as there's a reasonably diverse set of people

 

[Phil56]

I think working hard is worth it if it's temporary and is a specific means to an end.

I worked hard upon leaving school with barely any qualifications, doing self study and evening classes alongside a full time low paying job to firstly get A levels and then do professional accountancy exams. That was a very hard 6 years of slog.

Then I "coasted" for 20 years or so, as a qualified accountant, changing from one job to another as I progressed through the levels of the profession, different departments, different firms, etc., until I got as far as I could working for other people and a pretty good salary.

In my late 30's I decided to go it alone and start my own accountancy practice. Another 5 years of sheer hard work, very long hours, often 7 days per week, living on a pittance, as all money I made had to be reinvested to grow the practice, having to take on clients I didn't like just to pay the bills.

Now, 20 years later, I can work very flexible hours, have complete freedom to hire/fire clients as I want, and have freedom to wind down when I want towards retirement. "Working hard" for two period during my working life have certainly been worth it for me as it's given me options/freedom to earn a decent living for the rest of my working life.

 

[najaB]

Despite taking on extra courses in Python and PowerBI which apparently in demand, this is not my experience. My experience in West Yorkshire is that there are no genuine jobs available, just adverts.

Is moving an option? There definitely is a need for people with those skills up here.

 

[kermit]

Just one more suggestion - would you be prepared to think completely outside the box, and try something that you might not initially be comfortable with? The caring professions, for instance, can sometimes offer job security and a reasonable wage. The work can be tough and demanding, which is why relatively few people will consider them as a first choice. Volunteering, even for a couple of hours a week, can give some insight into what might be possible. I have a relative who did occasional volunteer work with the Red Cross, and is now perhaps the world's most unlikely qualified nurse!

 

[WelshBluebird]

Is moving an option? There definitely is a need for people with those skills up here.

In tech location shouldn't be as much of a factor these days. Sure you do still have some companies who haven't shifted with the times, but a hell of a lot of the industry have moved to remote first.

 

[najaB]

In tech location shouldn't be as much of a factor these days. Sure you do still have some companies who have shifted, but a hell of a lot of the industry have moved to remote first.

Not all companies are fully remote though. Mine, for example, will hire from different parts of Scotland but it's still expected that you'll be able to attend the office on a regular/semi-regular basis (could be anything from once or twice a week through to once or twice a month by agreement with your manager). Easy and cheap to do from say Stirling or Paisley, less so from Sheffield or Manchester.

 

[MotCO]

Applying for 1,500 jobs sounds like a 'scatter-gun' approach. Maybe you should be more selective in which jobs you apply for, and definitely tailor each application to the post you are applying for.

You mention NHS jobs. In my (very) long career in the NHS, when applying for jobs, I gave personal examples (either work or non-work) of how I met each criteria, and set them out in the order in the job description - it just makes the life of the recruiter so much easier. Also, get your applications in early - several recruiters cut off after receiving a fixed number of applications.

Does hard work pay off? Once you are in a job, if you want to move on within the organisation , you need to stand out. One way is by putting in the extra hours, always meeting the deadlines, in short, being a safe pair of hands. If I had the choice between someone who clocked watched and always left on time, or someone who could be more flexible (personal circumstances excepted), I would chose the latter.

I also endorse others' comments on volunteering. It allows you to quote personal experience in your applications, or could lead to further opportunities.

And good luck!

 

[trebor79]

You were told by your teachers at school that if you worked hard and got qualifications you would get a 'good' job. ('Good' not defined). What they meant was, if you worked hard and got qualifications, they themselves would get the credit.

Clearly you've never had a teacher as a parent or partner.

 

[MotCO]

Is this advert of any use to the OP?

Rail data experts wanted

This post has been made with the permission of the forum moderation team ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rail data experts wanted Full time and part time roles available - flexible working hours and locations - excellent salaries -...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[dakta]

Is working hard worth it?

IME yes and no. There are plenty of jobs that will allow you to work very hard, produce good results and you'll never really go places. There's jobs where you'll get better rewards for doing much less.

I don't think its ever really worth not working hard on the basis that working hard doesn't always get results, I had this chat with a manager at a factory I worked at where we got on quite well, we both realised we'd go nowhere in the situation we were in but we both sort of held the view that our own ethic towards hard work is ours and what we'd 'sell' if other opportunities arose, so even though at the time the future looked a bit bleak it was still worth putting effort in to everything we did.

For me personally after leaving uni things didn't work fantastically for 10- 12 years and then I met someone by chance in a pub who knew someone who took an interest in meeting me and things took a drastic change which changed not only my life, but my own sense of self worth because to be brutally if not too honest I had no idea that I had skills that could be useful to a big organisation, and even if I was aware I'd have never beleived it. There definitely is some luck, chance etc involved in getting a 'good' job which is why I don't myself hold a lot of love for the education system beyond giving people core skills (mostly communicate as the rest can be taught to the initiated)

It's always worth working hard - it doesn't guarantee an opportunity but they'll be hard to exploit if you don't

 

[jfollows]

For me, I never felt that I had to work hard, but in looking back now I can see that I did, but whilst I can say without doubt that I much prefer not working at all (I'm retired now), what was once hard work was made easier for me by two things:

1. That I had a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment in doing my job as well as I could, not for financial reward but for personal self-esteem.
2. That I had a sense that what I was doing was meaningful to and valued by others in some way.

Working hard, for me, would have been having to work when these conditions didn't apply, and I was lucky during most of my career that they did. I was also lucky in that when the second stopped applying, and I no longer felt that what I was doing was meaningful or made a difference to anyone in any significant way, I was able to retire.

I probably only worked really hard during my life once, which was for my A-levels, which got me the grades I had hoped to be able to achieve (3xA in 1978).

I would always advise people to target their career aspirations towards something they could be interested in spending 30+ years of their life doing, rather than targetting financial rewards. I could have had higher paying jobs, and in 2008 I resigned from one job and took up a lower-paying job because I felt it would be more rewarding, and for a few years it was. However it's easy to say that, and harder for someone with significant debts to consider.

But I still think the bottom line is that I never considered work as 'hard' when I was doing something I thought relevant, I found interesting, I was given the freedom to make decisions for, and which I felt was important and relevant to others.

 

[Wynd]

Short answer, yes. You're getting no where in this life without living the the principles of serving others and working hard.

Longer answer:

Hard work is the foundation, but a career is built with many pillars. (I'd imagine you are already aware of a number of these, but for the benefit of those without the maturity to ask for help like yourself...)

Self awareness.
Listening skills.
Clear communication.
Compassion and empathy for your co-workers and superiors. This can often be expressed with cake, which is one of the easiest ways to make friends in the office. (side note, this does not mean being a people pleasing walkover. You can be kind and fair. Tough, but compassionate.)
Being informed of the wider business and market to some degree.
Self discipline, showing up/logging on when expected, not endlessly complaining or being negative or gossiping. That last one is a killer of careers.
Good manners, please, thank you, holding the door, no swearing, no ridiculous attire.


There is a good book on this called the rules of work.

If you are missing self awareness, then the best money you will ever spend is on counselling to improve your self awareness. Beyond all others aside from hard work, this attribute has the biggest effect on your career and work life. And your personal life, but that's out of scope here.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's always worth working hard - it doesn't guarantee an opportunity but they'll be hard to exploit if you don't

Probably the best single sentence of advice in the thread.

Working hard while looking for opportunities is key. You never know when one will fall your way. A key skill is realising when you have an opportunity to do something and being able to act on it appropriately.

It's always better to be lucky than good.

 

[Busaholic]

It's always better to be lucky than good.

I'm genuinely interested what you mean by that. Care to expand?

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm genuinely interested what you mean by that. Care to expand?

Exactly what I said. It's better to be lucky than good (as in, good at your job.profession etc). Doesn't mean you can succeed without being good, but it is a smaller part of the puzzle than luck.

Most very successful people are very lucky indeed in some respect. We all know people for whom the right opportunity has seemingly landed for them. What is also part of the puzzle is "making your own luck".

To use a football analogy about "making your own luck":
- A centre forward follows in every shot his team mate takes. He's on the last defender, and makes a 15 yard run towards the keeper every time his team mate shoots. 95% of the time, the keeper saves it, or the shot goes wide, and most of the effort he makes is wasted. But the few times a season the goalkeeper spills the shot, he's right there, on the 6 yard line, to tap in to an open goal.

Is he lucky? Yes, in the moment. It's lucky the ball spilled to him. But he also has to be fit enough and determined enough to make the run 100% of the time, not knowing when the opportunity will fall. He's got to be canny enough to stay onside. And he needs to be skilful enough to react quickly to a spilled ball. All of that comes with effort.

 

[Busaholic]

Exactly what I said. It's better to be lucky than good (as in, good at your job.profession etc). Doesn't mean you can succeed without being good, but it is a smaller part of the puzzle than luck.

Most very successful people are very lucky indeed in some respect. We all know people for whom the right opportunity has seemingly landed for them. What is also part of the puzzle is "making your own luck".

To use a football analogy about "making your own luck":
- A centre forward follows in every shot his team mate takes. He's on the last defender, and makes a 15 yard run towards the keeper every time his team mate shoots. 95% of the time, the keeper saves it, or the shot goes wide, and most of the effort he makes is wasted. But the few times a season the goalkeeper spills the shot, he's right there, on the 6 yard line, to tap in to an open goal.

Is he lucky? Yes, in the moment. It's lucky the ball spilled to him. But he also has to be fit enough and determined enough to make the run 100% of the time, not knowing when the opportunity will fall. He's got to be canny enough to stay onside. And he needs to be skilful enough to react quickly to a spilled ball. All of that comes with effort.

Thank you. I'd go along with that.

 

[Broucek]

I always believe that performance = capability x effort x luck/randomness/whatever

People and organisations that develop capability and make an effort are more likely to succeed (however defined) than those that don't - "the harder you practice, the luckier you get" as the old gold cliché goes.