Why on earth would anyone go to all the effort and go out of their way to go in to the stations and touch in and out when you can just get on the bus for free. You can just ride it for free. Nobody other than a few bonkers enthusiasts are going to go to all that effort when you can just walk on the bus for free.
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Is this bus actually free?
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This is Railforums, let the discussion continue
Next up, we can look forward to an academic realisation that no Railway Bylaws relating to ticketing apply to this bus, rendering fare enforcement and collection moot.
I'll give you that Chiltern Railways revenue protection have better things to do than meet this bus to check tickets.
I guess that also a replacement bus is also not registered with the Traffic Commissioner, so can't be regarded as a stage carriage bus, but in the overall context of railway revenue, taking a bus for free because of gaps in railway bylaws is not consistent with the principle of honesty about paying for the railway's provision of a service. If the public aren't required to pay for a replacement service, why is the railway required to provide one (assuming that it gives sufficient notice that it won't do so)?
The public are prepared to pay for one, but there is no mechanism to do so. If you want to leave the bus’ route to approximate the fare yourself by touching in at rail stations that’s up to you. But nobody pays for the bus, and the drivers confirm it’s free.
Chiltern could actually set up the bus to demand payment of the due contactless fare, quite easily. There is only one fare that can be charged. But, they don’t. That’s up to them I guess. That’s why this particular bus, is, as the thread title asks, *actually free*.
The railway is required to provide the bus because it is avoiding the expense and hassle of a withdrawal process, not because the bus is in any way useful to passengers. It is used exclusively by cranks - for free.
It depends. I believe Chiltern registered the RRBs during Project Evergreen 1 (Princes Risborough - Aynho Junction redoubling) as normal buses.
More recently, TfL have contracted out a few routes in the 7xx series for rail replacements, and the operators are supposed to supply London spec vehicles with working ticket machines for them.
Loads of operators now enforce ticket checks using their normal revenue staff prior to boarding. The usual options of charging Penalty Fares or threatened prosecution wouldn't be available but there is precisely zero to stop them refusing someone boarding. It's also not new, for example when Blackpool North was closed for a year they almost always did a ticket check before boarding the bus. You personally haven't seen this, sure, but it certainly happens.
I have occasioanally used the rrail replacement buses for Merseyrail. When they leave the main city centre stations there are often Merseyrail staff directing passengers, sp theoretically they could also check tickets but I can't say I have seen any do so. On my line, the main bus route which the RRs follow is a good few minutes' walk from most of the stations, so I doubt if many people would bother to buy tickets. However the normal bus route is both more frequent and more direct than the train service so the Rail Replacements are virtually empty.
Likewise, it's common for this to happen on occasion at Brighton. I've had my ticket inspected numerous times there during Brighton Mainline blockades. Or at least a staff member has seen a plastic smartcard in my ticket wallet and nodded me through...
xotGD
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"It is a faff to pay, and you can usually get away without paying" is not a justification for fare dodging.
It's not fare dodging to arrive at the bus - which does not depart from a railway station - with the correct method of payment to pay the appropriate fare, only for there to be no facility to take it. Nobody could have any complaint if they were charged the fare, but Chiltern choose not to.
"It's a faff to set up the bus like this, or get a member of revenue staff to attend, and you can usually get away without charging for the service" seems perfectly acceptable logic from Chiltern.
To reiterate for the nth time, the bus drivers confirm this is a free service. No payment or ticket is required.
I think this is something people are missing! No one is trying to claim all RRBs are guaranteed to be free, but if the drivers are telling people on this specific one it's free then that's a bit different
Belperpete
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But you would be in breach of the National Rail Conditions of Travel, which applies to rail replacement services.This is Railforums, let the discussion continue
Next up, we can look forward to an academic realisation that no Railway Bylaws relating to ticketing apply to this bus, rendering fare enforcement and collection moot.
Trainline is taking bookings for this service next Wednesday. Priced £7.80, plus £0.59 booking fee. As opposed to £0.00.
Clearly others have managed to purchase tickets before....
Chiltern Railways' 'ghost bus': Is this Britain's most bizarre route?
The one-way bus service that runs once a week - to save a rail operator time and money.
www.bbc.co.uk
Not if the bus driver authorises you to board?
How does the availability of eTickets make the "no facilities to purchase at the departure station" excuse a thin one? You may choose to purchase your ticket using cash, a card, or online; and if you intend to make a card payment or pay with cash there's nothing forcing you to buy your ticket online - even if the station you're departing from cannot accept cash or card payments.
Presumably not if it hasn't been registered with the traffic commissioner.
In this particular case the railway is providing a nominal bus replacement service because it hasn't bothered going through the process to properly close down the service.
When RRBs are provided due to engineering work l absolutely agree that passengers should pay with a very big caveat that the cost for an inferior replacement service should be no more than the cost on the normal service. Incur additional costs and have to try to claim them back? Hell no!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Ironically they're often more as often Advances aren't released. Which I agree is wrong.
It is a nonsense. Or they're all in the schedule data as just one operator, when it's actually the case that there's a single queue by destination not an operator-specific one as that'd just be too impractical. A good example of this is Newcastle where usually the cost of buses towards Edinburgh is agreed in advance and divided between the operators, but they don't upload every bus four times. The agreement is simply that any ticket holder can travel on any bus which has a free seat. Can you imagine the practicalities of trying to have four separate queues by operator!?
...oh yes they are
In this case I fully agree that the bus is free. But for a normal replacement bus, that starts and ends on station property it is fully intended that the fares are due. I've also seen plenty of revenue checks (though as mentioned above, if someone doesn't have a ticket then no sanction can be levied other than selling one).
NLC1072
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I know between underground stations it is free, because they close the entrance to the stations and the oyster pads are inside.
SargeNpton
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As an aside to this, I have seen some engineering work notices for Thameslink services on the Sutton Loop where the message is something like "passengers with paper tickets only may travel on service bus xx".
Presumably, those using Oyster cards will tap in on the buses in the normal way. No idea though how e-ticket holders are treated.
Presumably, those using Oyster cards will tap in on the buses in the normal way. No idea though how e-ticket holders are treated.
Surreytraveller
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No, as it's not a stage carriage service. The vehicle might be a bus, but it is not a bus service - it is a railway service. Its the same as a private hire vehicle - it has been hired by the railway.
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Its not replacing a service as such, it is running because passenger trains are no longer running along a certain piece of track.
Its like that Wandsworth Road to Ealing Broadway service a few years ago - there never was such a service, but there was a section of track in the Clapham Junction area that ceased to be served by trains (or was it the Willesden area? I cannot remember now)
philthetube
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does the driver have the authority to do that?
Who else is in control of the bus?
In the absence of any other staff, at a bus stop, who else would?
The station staff did not even know the bus existed, and it is no longer advertised on the screens - presumably because it doesn't leave from the station front any more.
How sufficient should the noice be? I'm thinking of Govia Thameink Railway and Rail Replacement buses.
There is a solution to this though. Update rhe bylaws so RRBs are included.
I have never had a ticket check for a Rail replacement bus. I do buy tickets for them.
I wonder if an RPI got onto a bus between Guildford and Woking, how many people would be ticketless.
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