Is this a break of journey

[IanD]

Trying to do another Ffestiniog Round Robin type thing on the cheap again!

I can get an advance ticket:
Milton Keynes Central dep 0622
Warrington Bank Quay arr 0749 dep 0824
Llandudnu Junction arr 0948 dep 1034
Blaenau Ffestiniog arr 1136

Experience shows that the train from Llandudno Junction is usually quite busy so I'd rather get on at Llandudno and get a seat with a view.

So if I got a anytime day return from Llandudno Junction to Llandudno, would that be a BOJ? The train from Warrington continues to Llandudno and the train to Blaenau Ffestiniog obviously starts from Llandudno so I would not be catching an extra trains just having a longer journey (paid for) on two of the trains I would be on anyway. I'm not actually leaving any railway premises until Porthmadog.

Hope this makes sense!

 

[34D]

Hope this makes sense!

Makes sense indeedy. No idea what the right answer is (a total guess, but I don't think it would be allowed, strictly speaking).

 

[Greenback]

Trying to do another Ffestiniog Round Robin type thing on the cheap again!

I can get an advance ticket:
Milton Keynes Central dep 0622
Warrington Bank Quay arr 0749 dep 0824
Llandudnu Junction arr 0948 dep 1034
Blaenau Ffestiniog arr 1136

Experience shows that the train from Llandudno Junction is usually quite busy so I'd rather get on at Llandudno and get a seat with a view.

So if I got a anytime day return from Llandudno Junction to Llandudno, would that be a BOJ? The train from Warrington continues to Llandudno and the train to Blaenau Ffestiniog obviously starts from Llandudno so I would not be catching an extra trains just having a longer journey (paid for) on two of the trains I would be on anyway. I'm not actually leaving any railway premises until Porthmadog.

Hope this makes sense!

Sorry, I'm a bit confused!

If you mean whether the Llandudno Junction to Llandudno return would be a break of journey on the Round Robin, I don't see how it can be. You are not leaving the station premises at the Junction, you are using another ticket and would be travelling on exactly the same train as if you were staying at the Junction.

 

[SS4]

I got the impression your itinerary demanded that you change at Llandudno Junction to complete the journey on an advance to Blaenau Ffestiniog.

It is my opinion that you would be breaking your journey* (if I've read it right) because you've deviated from the itinerary by going via Llandudno instead of via Llandudno Junction.

edit: see below

Can you not get an advance by specifying via Llandudno in whichever site you're using?

As I understand it your current itinerary is:

1. MKC - Warrington
2. change
3. Warrington - Llandudno Junction
4. change
5. Llandudno Junction - Ffestiniog

But you want to do

1. MKC - Warrington
2. change
3. Warrington - Llandudno Junction
4. Using a separate ticket:
   • Llandudno Junction - Llandudno
   • Llandudno - Llandudno Junction
5. change back onto advance ticket
6. Llandudno Junction - Ffestiniog

if the last portion of the journey is unreservable then I would suggest it would not be break of journey as long as you don't leave station premises.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think the Llandudno to Blaenau Festiniog trains are reservable, but I don't see why buying another ticket for a short journey instead of sitting or standing on the platform constitutes a break of journey on an Advance.

 

[John @ home]

In my opinion, it's perfectly valid.

The origin on the Advance ticket is Milton Keynes C. The destination is Blaenau Ffest. You intend to travel from the origin to the destination precisely in accordance with the travel itinerary you will obtain at the time of purchase.

In addition, you intend to combine this ticket with an Anytime Day Return (SDR) Llandudno Jn - Llandudno. This is allowed by NRCoC Condition 19(b) because the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another.

It is true that break of journey is not allowed by the Advance ticket terms and conditions. But break of journey is defined in NRCoC Condition 16 and that definition includes:

you will be treated as breaking your journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start your journey other than:
(i) to join a train at another station

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

When you leave Llandudno Jn for Llandudno at 0950 you are doing so precisely in order to join a train (the 1022 Llandudno Jn - Blaenau Ffest) at another station (Llandudno Jn). So you're not breaking your journey.

Enjoy your trip!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Well, I don't think I can see anything wrong with it, but you might have to explain it to the guard on the train.

 

[IanD]

Thanks everyone.

 

[robschopper]

I'll save you the stress, most passengers board at Junction and the train is very lightly loaded from Llandudno. You'll have no problem on that departure getting a 'seat with a view' at Junction, but sit on the right.