Is this a BR era light fitting?

[BRX]

Somewhat specific question.

See the bottom right-hand image on this page (under "spare parts"):

http://www.red-plc.co.uk/page4.html

(also in the image to the left)

It's a type of table lamp that I've seen in the lounge cars for the scottish sleepers.

A bit of image googling seems to indicate that it's also used in the Night Riviera carriages, as well as else where, eg NXEA

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ee507/6080399662/

Or in first class in the Pretendolino

https://www.flickr.com/photos/midlandscotterz-photography/5534619636/

Indeed it's a design that seems familiar to me as if I've seen it around for a while.

Does anyone know where it originates? Was it in the original mk3 fitouts (or earlier)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone know where it originates? Was it in the original mk3 fitouts (or earlier)?

No, they didn't have table lamps, or at least I don't think so. They are early VT era and were added during the VT Mk3 refurbs of the late 90s/early 2000s.

 

[Ash Bridge]

No, they didn't have table lamps, or at least I don't think so. They are early VT era and were added during the VT Mk3 refurbs of the late 90s/early 2000s.

Actually Neil, Iam pretty sure that the very first of the ICWC refurbished mk3s were rolled out in the dying days of BR (1996) the first one I saw with that interior plus those table lamps was in IC livery. I think BR started the refresh and it continued under Virgin.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Actually Neil, Iam pretty sure that the very first of the ICWC refurbished mk3s were rolled out in the dying days of BR (1996) the first one I saw with that interior plus those table lamps was in IC livery. I think BR started the refresh and it continued under Virgin.

Thinking back, you *might* actually be right there.

 

[BRX]

No, they didn't have table lamps, or at least I don't think so.

Even in first class?

Most of the photos I can find are of them are in first class mk3s.

Can't find any photos of the original mk3 interiors though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even in first class?

Pretty sure the original Mk3 first class interior indeed didn't. There were overhead reading lamps, which are more use.

 

[BRX]

Pretty sure the original Mk3 first class interior indeed didn't. There were overhead reading lamps, which are more use.

It's surprisigly hard to find photos of original mk3 interiors but it seems you are right. Found this of an HST mk3

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54701885@N03/11842511814

No table lamps in evidence.

Here in photo from 2003, with what I assume was the first VTWC fitout (photo caption states 1997-8)

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car/Mk3/misc/Mk3_Virgin_FO_2.jpg



I assume these lamps appear in the current Caledonian Sleeper mk2 lounge cars because they were also last refurbed in the late 90s/early 2000s?

Does anyone know what those interiors looked like previously? (Or maybe they replaced older carriages)

 

[ainsworth74]

There were overhead reading lamps, which are more use.

Really? The only reading lamps I've every found make the slightest difference are those on Desiro first class.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I assume these lamps appear in the current Caledonian Sleeper mk2 lounge cars because they were also last refurbed in the late 90s/early 2000s?

Does anyone know what those interiors looked like previously? (Or maybe they replaced older carriages)

When BR first introduced the mk2 lounge cars for Anglo-Scottish sleeper services, I remember they were fitted with loose tables and chairs.

 

[ainsworth74]

Tables are now fixed (I think) but the chairs are still loose.

 

[Max]

I remember the same lamps installed in the first class area of TPE 158s when they were refurbished under Northern Spirit (I think it was called Transpennine Premier?), which I imagine must have been late 90s/early 00s? I think some might have lasted through to the EMT refurbishment programme around 4-5 years ago.

 

[BRX]

Yes, (from memory 1 week ago travelling on the FTW sleeper lounge car) I think tables are now fixed and chairs loose.

The table lamps in question are, in these vehicles, in between the sofas, though, not at the tables.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Thinking back, you *might* actually be right there.

No you were right to start with. They were fitted as part of the initial VT refresh.

 

[MCR247]

I remember the same lamps installed in the first class area of TPE 158s when they were refurbished under Northern Spirit (I think it was called Transpennine Premier?), which I imagine must have been late 90s/early 00s? I think some might have lasted through to the EMT refurbishment programme around 4-5 years ago.

I definitely remember being on a TPE/FTPE/CT/EMT liveried 158 with those table lamps so they did make it through to TPE.

They were also on the MML 170/1s

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? The only reading lamps I've every found make the slightest difference are those on Desiro first class.

The Pendolino ones (in both classes) are good.

 

[Ash Bridge]

No you were right to start with. They were fitted as part of the initial VT refresh.

As I type, in front of me I have a copy of "British Rail Mark 2 Coaches" by Michael Harris. It states in the book that during 1996 Eversholt Leasing proceeded with overhauls on 29 mk2Es & Fs operated by IC Anglia, IC Crosscountry & IC West Coast, the vehicles returned to service during 1996. It states decor styles varied in this pilot refurbishment, different colour schemes were applied to the vehicles operated by the three TOCs plus numerous changes to panels, partitions, recovered table tops & repanelled and refitted toilets with some of the West Coast open firsts fitted with table lamps. Virgin did not take over the WC franchise until the start of 1997, although admittedly the rolling stock even though still operated by BR was by then all owned by a ROSCO. Also I do still seem to recall a West Coast mk3 set in service with the new interior (red 1st class seat trim with table lamps) before Virgin took over.