Is there a requirement to provide unreserved seats?

[bramling]

That's one practice I hate. However, I'm not averse to parking on top of said bags with a fair bit of descent rate. Seats are for people, not bags.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Tetchytyke]

That's one practice I hate. However, I'm not averse to parking on top of said bags with a fair bit of descent rate. Seats are for people, not bags.

And I hate people who are so ignorant they sit on my stuff without saying "excuse me". Manners cost nowt.

Hey ho.

TPE reserve too many seats, so do XC, but it's a tough one. Most people are not travelling far and so can stand; it's the ones going a long way who need the reservation. Not sure what the solution to that is.

 

[bramling]

Not sure what the solution to that is.

Longer trains?

Or, of course, fewer people in the country.

 

[ChathillMan]

The technology exists to provide information on how many seats are occupied on buses in real time. The same could be used on trains, that way if you are waiting at an intermidate station you know which coach has more seats available in theory

Granted it won't tell you who is about to get off, but it's better than just picking a spot on the platform and then everyone ramming a vestebule when 2 coaches down loads of seats exist

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[AndyW33]

On the reservations front, I think the tiny screens on trains can be a pain, as they don't show how far the seat is reserved for. The question is, are they more reliable than the paper tickets (where they're not out due to lack of time or printer problems, etc.)?

EMT's Meridians do show the points between which the seats are reserved, so it is obviously not the screen size that prevents other operators doing the same. Has to be either inertia or being too mean to pay to upgrade the software.

 

[317666]

One thing usually mentioned on threads about reservations, which hasn't been yet on this one, is DB's approach on long-distance trains. You have ten minutes to claim your seat after the train leaves the station you reserved from, and after that all reservations from that station disappear from the displays and anybody is free to use those seats if they haven't been claimed.

 

[6Gman]

The technology exists to provide information on how many seats are occupied on buses in real time. The same could be used on trains, that way if you are waiting at an intermidate station you know which coach has more seats available in theory

Granted it won't tell you who is about to get off, but it's better than just picking a spot on the platform and then everyone ramming a vestebule when 2 coaches down loads of seats exist

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Good luck getting that to work when all too often they can't even get the electronic reservations on-train to work!

 

[grumblingalong]

Good luck getting that to work when all too often they can't even get the electronic reservations on-train to work!

The Stadlers for Anglia will be fitted with this system so I'm told, it will be interesting to see if it actually changes people's habits.

 

[Mordac]

That's one practice I hate. However, I'm not averse to parking on top of said bags with a fair bit of descent rate. Seats are for people, not bags.

I'll do it if the train is not busy, mostly for the reasons googolplex alludes to, but I'll take it out if it starts getting busy.

 

[randyrippley]

Simple answer is to ban reservations. Make everything first-come first-served.

 

[221129]

EMT's Meridians do show the points between which the seats are reserved, so it is obviously not the screen size that prevents other operators doing the same. Has to be either inertia or being too mean to pay to upgrade the software.

So do CrossCountry Voyagers.

 

[DaveB10780]

I travelled on the 18.35 Virgin service from Manchester to London last Saturday. In the rear coach, the last five or six double seats were all showing 'Reserved' one said 'Reserved Cyclist' This is not very helpful when it doesn't say where they are reserved from. I took a chance and sat in the rear seat and several others without reservations did likewise. I got off at Stoke (last pick up point) and none of them had been claimed and the cyclists never appeared.

Normally if reserved from Stoke or Macclesfield they say so, once clear of Stockport you are most likely OK.

 

[TheEscapist_]

But this whole situation is why I really like the system used by SNCF in France on their TGV services. Compulsory reservations. You can get a reservation up to the point of departure. No reservation tickets on the seats (or above seat electronic displays). Everyone sits in the seat allocated to them.

The TGV i used this year had electronic displays. Very clear and easy to read unlike ones in this country... Even displayed the info in French, German and English!

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[Parallel]

A week or so ago there was a 2 car 158 (either 158763 or 158766) working from Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central. Anyone uses the services would know that coach C is the unreserved coach, and coach A and B are usually heavily reserved, though you can find a few unreserved seats.

Well, this train was formed of 2 coaches (A & B) with reservations. This was during the Bath Christmas market on a Saturday. Needless to say by the time the train got to Trowbridge, it was bursting at the seams, and I suspect people were unable to board at atleast Warminster, possibly even Salisbury or before.

IMO reservations for advance fares should be used on quiet(er) services. Granted, nobody would know the service would be formed of 2 coaches probably more than a day in advance, but the Cardiff-Portsmouths run completely wedged for most of the weekend as 3 coaches. Even full and standing when GWR can strengthen to 4 or 5 coaches this time of year.

I much prefer SWT's policy of advances booking you onto a reserved train, but not issuing reserved seats.

 

[BurtonM]

I concur that TPE are excessive. The problem is exacerbated by the paper tickets being hard to read (often badly printed), and furthermore by a lack of things of any substance to hold on to if you're standing, and all the idiots leaving all their suitcases in the vestibules, even when there's nothing in the luggage rack.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Does anyone know what the "Reserved cyclist" actually means? I've seen it displayed many times, and have never seen anyone turn up.

I have no idea. A couple of times I've definitely had the only cycle reservation on the train, and a seat reservation further along it nowhere near coach A - yet those particular seats had "Reserved cyclist" all shown. Bizarre.

 

[Mordac]

I concur that TPE are excessive. The problem is exacerbated by the paper tickets being hard to read (often badly printed), and furthermore by a lack of things of any substance to hold on to if you're standing, and all the idiots leaving all their suitcases in the vestibules, even when there's nothing in the luggage rack.

As someone who spent about 12 months doing Edinburgh to Lancaster, most often on TPE trains, I very much concur with this, second only to the other idiots sitting on the floor in the vestibules when there's more than enough seats for them.

 

[PermitToTravel]

second only to the other idiots sitting on the floor in the vestibules when there's more than enough seats for them.

I do this when with friends and it means we can sit together, rather than in seats far apart. Obviously, we get out of the way at station stops etc

 

[DelayRepay]

The technology exists to provide information on how many seats are occupied on buses in real time. The same could be used on trains, that way if you are waiting at an intermidate station you know which coach has more seats available in theory

The Thameslink 700s already display this on the train and I think it's very good. I am one who prefers to stand rather than sit next to strangers (especially squashed between them and the window). But the new system can normally direct you to a coach where you have a good choice of seats (outside of the peak, obviously).

Displaying this on the platform monitors would probably cause problems at the stations though due to everyone crowding around one set of doors where they think the seats are.

 

[Taunton]

It would be good to sit in a reserved seat if it didn't regularly turn out to be the "joke" seat in the carriage, facing backwards, up against a wall with no window, and next to another reserved passenger, while there are plenty of empty unreserved, forward-facing, window-view twin seats elsewhere in the carriage. Lazy computer programming of seat reservations, which just assigns them numerically from one end of the coach to the other, appears responsible.

Virgin WC trains which switch the displays on 5 minutes AFTER departure from Euston are another annoyance. Someone posted here the technical issues behind this happening. In the ideal world those with reservations should be admitted at Euston first, from 30 to 15 minutes before departure, then the displays cleared and the rest admitted.

 

[Segedunum]

I have to agree. Many of us feel the amount of seats being reserved by the company is excessive. 07:08 NCL-LIV is a classic partly because it connects into the first off peak train into London at York but also the commuter flow into Leeds. Many are choosing to buy in advance rather than use a season as they then get a seat leaving the season ticket holders to stand because there are no seats. Every reservable seat is booked leaving the 6 coaxh A priority and 4 tip up seats, 4 priority seats in B and 2 priority, 2 priority and a 4 bay in 1st class and the 8 tip ups in the ballroom. And THAT IS IT!!! Out of 180 seats that is poor.


[

When often all we get is a 10 minute turn round some of us want the train to go into service clean and litter free with working toilets and fully labelled so you get your reserved seat. Yes 5 minutes is a pain, it makes it more difficult for me to assist with boarding etc when time is limited but Im sure you would prefer that to a scruffy looking rubbish strewn train.

Even the Saturday equivalent 0706 off Newcastle can be cosy and a stark contrast to the ghost town of a 0603 service. Ended up bumping myself up to first for £6 yesterday at least, but even after York, first was very well filled.

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[najaB]

In the ideal world those with reservations should be admitted at Euston first, from 30 to 15 minutes before departure, then the displays cleared and the rest admitted.

Add in 10 minutes to clean the train (or would you let passengers on while it's being cleaned?) and you'll soon need both more platforms at stations like Euston as well as more rolling stock.

 

[Class 170101]

I have to agree. Many of us feel the amount of seats being reserved by the company is excessive. 07:08 NCL-LIV is a classic partly because it connects into the first off peak train into London at York but also the commuter flow into Leeds. Many are choosing to buy in advance rather than use a season as they then get a seat leaving the season ticket holders to stand because there are no seats. Every reservable seat is booked leaving the 6 coaxh A priority and 4 tip up seats, 4 priority seats in B and 2 priority, 2 priority and a 4 bay in 1st class and the 8 tip ups in the ballroom. And THAT IS IT!!! Out of 180 seats that is poor.

I am afraid I don't blame any operator for doing this. ts about making money. I doubt TPE get a large share of the walk up ticket money pot for the Newcastle to Leeds market. So to increase its share it sells more cheap tickets, and via its own website would get all the money.

Each operator does this to get all the money rather than share the walk up ticket pot. XC does the same with its 10 minute reservations, slightly cheaper than the open ticket but it gets all the money.

 

[urbophile]

Yeah Virgin regularly make this announcement, and often also add that anyone without a reservation should make their way to the unreserved coach and find a seat there int he first instance.

But this whole situation is why I really like the system used by SNCF in France on their TGV services. Compulsory reservations. You can get a reservation up to the point of departure. No reservation tickets on the seats (or above seat electronic displays). Everyone sits in the seat allocated to them.

That would work on TGV services or their equivalents. Not on long-distance trains that also double as local ones. For example, Virgin Trains provides 1/3rd of the local service between Liverpool and Runcorn.

 

[pdq]

I came across something odd with TPE reservations a couple of months ago. I wanted to get 4 reservations from Huddersfield to Manchester Airport. Both the online booking and the ticket office said there were no reservations available on the particular train I wanted, so I ended up reserving on a slightly earlier train as there were 4 of us with a couple of large cases and I wasn't going to risk it.

The odd thing is that when I played around on the system later, I could get reservations from Leeds to MIA but not HUD to MIA - on the same service. So there was clearly capacity but for some reason wasn't available from HUD.

 

[bramling]

It would be good to sit in a reserved seat if it didn't regularly turn out to be the "joke" seat in the carriage, facing backwards, up against a wall with no window, and next to another reserved passenger, while there are plenty of empty unreserved, forward-facing, window-view twin seats elsewhere in the carriage. Lazy computer programming of seat reservations, which just assigns them numerically from one end of the coach to the other, appears responsible.

Virgin WC trains which switch the displays on 5 minutes AFTER departure from Euston are another annoyance. Someone posted here the technical issues behind this happening. In the ideal world those with reservations should be admitted at Euston first, from 30 to 15 minutes before departure, then the displays cleared and the rest admitted.

If the reservations aren't displayed at the point where the train becomes advertised for boarding, then in my view the entire journey should be made "no reservation".

It's unacceptable to expect some kind of mass shuffle of people once everyone's on board.