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Is there a bus that uses the Dartford crossing?
- Thread starter Gathursty
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Yes, Ensign Bus route X80 (more here) uses the Dartford crossing, but does not run from Grays, or via Dartford town centre.
It operates outside Greater London / TFL area, so Oyster Cards not valid.
Alternative might just be via the Tilbury - Gravesend ferry, but that's probably going to be slower.
It operates outside Greater London / TFL area, so Oyster Cards not valid.
Alternative might just be via the Tilbury - Gravesend ferry, but that's probably going to be slower.
Traveline comes up with train from Grays to Chafford Hundred, X80 to Greenhithe Station, then train to Dartford (although I'm faintly aware there were problems late last week with the railway line between Gravesend and Dartford, and not sure it's been fixed) as 55 minutes.
There are bus alternatives from Greenhithe to Dartford (Arriva Kent 'Fastrack' which is fairly frequent) if you'd prefer (obviously there's no through ticketing) and there are bus options from Grays to Lakeside.
Another option Traveline suggests is train Grays - West Ham, Docklands Light Railway to Woolwich Arsenal, then train to Dartford. This at least avoids central London, but not sure if this can be done on a through ticket.
Statto
Established Member
I've been on the X80, the looking to Canary Wharf & Central London views are great going southbound over the bridge
Mon - Sat from Gravesend the 480 is faster than Fastrack B as it avoids Bluewater and the Hospital (traffic congestion can be a real problem at the latter).
TfL 96 is faster from Bluewater to Dartford as it only stops at Dartford centre (Hanau Bridge) and the hospital, both Fastracks stop along the way. No idea about oyster or fares though.
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TFL bus services have standard TFL bus fares even if outside London (and possibly stating the obvious but just in case TFL buses don't take cash at all - you need either Oyster card or contactless payment card of some sort.)
Not sure what the arrangement is with Fastrack these days - at one stage (admittedly some years back) you had to buy ticket at a roadside machine before boarding on one route, or pay driver in the conventional way on the other route - I'm not sure if this has changed.
I've found a timetable for 'A', few years old. No mention of buying tickets before boarding and, certainly I don't remember seeing roadside machines at all the stops I've boarded (I've got an Old Man's Bus Pass) . Lists fares for single trip, short hop and return. I think it works on a zonal system for fares (relevant for 'B').
One thing I know for sure is that tickets can be bought from drivers like most normal bus services (I bought a ticket myself last year, and I saw others doing so too).
There did used to be ticket machines at bus stops. But I’m not sure if they were the only option, or whether any are still in use. I’m actually planning on using a Fastrack service tomorrow , so hopefully I can confirm then!
In response to the OP, you can save time and avoid Bluewater altogether if you get off the X80 earlier at Greenhithe Station, then get the Fastrack A to Dartford. This is scheduled to take just 15 mins from Greenhithe to Dartford (alternatively you can get the train from here, which takes 7 mins, but not sure if you’re trying to avoid trains).
In addition, there is the new Go-Coach route AZ which is limited stop, but takes slightly longer at a scheduled 22 mins, as it goes via the Amazon distribution centre (ordinary members of the public are able to use this service too).
So, in summary I’d recommend getting Ensignbus routes 73/83 from Grays to Lakeside, then Ensignbus X80 over the Dartford Crossing to Greenhithe Station, then Fastrack routes A or AZ to Dartford (or the train Greenhithe to Dartford).
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Ah, I was hoping that would have been sorted by now. I don’t understand why it’s taking so long just to agree for a bus route to be able to use a busway!
I'm surprised that it hasn't been sorted out, too. However, if I was high up in Dartford Council or their American-based development partner I would be looking and hard at Amazon's profits and thinking about how a tiny proportion of those could be used to pay for maintenance and/or expenses. I would be driving a hard bargain. the losers at the moment are Amazon and their employees (plus those held up in the jams - to which Amazon's buses make a small but visual contribution). Whether this is the cause I have no idea, but money, in some form or other, often is.
Busaholic
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Amazon and altruism have never been bedfellows, but then Amazon and commonsense solutions have never been either. If Amazon see someone else getting even a tiny perceived advantage from money they fork out, then the deal is off.
Prologis are employed by Dartford and are a 'trusted partner' of Amazon. A deal can be done, no one will admit to giving an inch but this has been going on for some time (Roger French reported in August that a deal hadn't been done because someone was on holiday, two months ago; Bezos may be able to afford to take two month holidays, but few others can). There is a sticking point and Dartford don't seem to be losing much by hanging on and the council leader is no soft touch and I don't suppose many of his own constituents work at Amazon.
I'm posting to try to be smart about finishing off my route coverage in the London area (Barking - Purfleet - Grays & London Bridge - Dartford (all routes)) but given how notorious the Dartford Crossing can be, I'm trying to think if it's worth paying a bit more for the options you've mentioned (bus/Gravesend Ferry) or to just concentrate on one side of the Thames. I suspect it will be an on the day decision but thanks for the options.
I travelled on the AZ today. We did not go on the busway underneath the Dartford Crossing. Probably the most important part of the route, as the route instead has to go via the roundabouts which lead to the Dartford Crossing which regularly have severe congestion.
However, surprisingly we travelled on the busway west of the Amazon LCY3. This must be a recent addition, as the ‘full route visuals’ I have seen on YouTube show the route avoiding this busway. So, slow progress, perhaps?
I also noticed the AZ route has to stop at an unmarked bus stop at Ebbsfleet International, and I didn’t see a single timetable displayed along the route. A bit shoddy it seems, despite the best efforts from Go-coach.
However, surprisingly we travelled on the busway west of the Amazon LCY3. This must be a recent addition, as the ‘full route visuals’ I have seen on YouTube show the route avoiding this busway. So, slow progress, perhaps?
I also noticed the AZ route has to stop at an unmarked bus stop at Ebbsfleet International, and I didn’t see a single timetable displayed along the route. A bit shoddy it seems, despite the best efforts from Go-coach.
telstarbox
Established Member
Maybe the timetable has already been emailed to Amazon staff who are the main market?
Yes, hopefully that is the case.
I still hope that having unmarked bus stops, especially at prominent stops, will just be a temporary thing. Even Amazon staff will be unsure exactly where to get the bus if it is unmarked, away from the other bus stops and shelters.
I also saw two buses leaving the stand at Gravesend in service, and just drove off, just presuming that no one was at the stops wanting the AZ.
As others have said, the ticket machines were removed years ago, and were out of service for some time before. In any case, I suspect they wouldn't be in use now, in the same way that increasing numbers of car parking machines are now mobile phone based, or at leasy have the option thereof.
I think it depends when you use it - I sailed through on a Saturday earlier this month without an issue.
The Amazon-bashing is all well and good, but the piece of busway in question has nothing to do with them - it's used by the existing service. The Amazon infrastructure is actually excellent (as it seems to be at all of their sites - it is as Kingsnorth as well).
Whilst some parts of the busway are fairly open, others are end in traffic signals operated by tagged vehicles only, and some, especially on the A/AZ, are controlled by entry barriers. I have something at the back of my mind that says the diversion of TfL services via the busway was also delayed because of similar access issues.
If you have a smartphone, just keep a good eye on the traffic function of Google maps. That should give you a fairly good idea of whether you'll run into any delays. About what time are you expecting to be in the area, and on what day of the week?
There are timetables at least at the relevant stops at Dartford Station and Gravesend Garrick Street (although I think the latter is actually on the back side of the bus shelter, where there is space!). The route is also very limited stop - so there ought to only be timetables at the 12 stops it serves in each direction.
They only seem to "kiss" the bus stop at Gravesend if there is a Fasttrack B in the stop, which there usually is. Garrick Street is a tight interchange at the best of times (as evidenced by the squeeze past oops there's my wingmirror on the floor I witnessed), but is due to be expanded or moved soon with the Bus Hub building works currently taking place - it remains to be seen whether that will create more space.
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