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Is the whole GB timetable interconnected?

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telstarbox

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In other words, are there any independently timetabled networks on the mainland? This would exclude 'once a day' moves to swap sets for depot or fuel e.g. the Sheerness branch.

As far as I can see the London commuter TOCs all interact with their nearest neighbour (including Southeastern high speed). Thameslink and Crossrail have created additional interactions.
Rural Wales interacts with Cardiff and Holyhead.
Rural Scotland interacts with the Inverness main line.
East Anglia fits into the Great Eastern and East Coast Main Line.
Cornwall all fits around the Great Western.
And the rest is pretty obviously linked?
 
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waverley47

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The far north lines can be run functionally independently of the mainline with their own platforms, but there are occasional diagram swaps and charters that link up the two sides. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been anything timetables "across" Inverness for a while.

In a similar way, the St Erth to St Ives, Liskeard to Looe, Sudbury to Mark's Tey, Romford to Upminster, and Grove Park to Bromley North branches are all run as independent entities, from their own bay platforms off the main line. Nothing interacts with the 'big railway' because the service runs as a shuttle, with the only interaction being at the start and end of service for unit positioning to and from the depot.

For a winner though, it would have to be the Stourbridge flyer.
 

Bletchleyite

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In a similar way, the St Erth to St Ives, Liskeard to Looe, Sudbury to Mark's Tey, Romford to Upminster, and Grove Park to Bromley North branches are all run as independent entities, from their own bay platforms off the main line. Nothing interacts with the 'big railway' because the service runs as a shuttle, with the only interaction being at the start and end of service for unit positioning to and from the depot.

Though one advantage of the integrated GWR is that they do timetable things (as far as possible) to connect nicely and they do hold connections, particularly the very infrequent ones like Newquay and Gunnislake. Thus they're still affected by the mainline even if not physically so.

I forgot about Stourbridge - that just does it by operating very frequently rather than planned around specific connections.
 

A S Leib

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I'm guessing you're excluding metro / tram systems, but are the tube Central, Jubilee, Northern, Victoria and Waterloo & City lines affected by anything else? Chiltern and the Overground eliminate the subsurface lines and Bakerloo, but apart from the Jubilee running parallel to the Metropolitan and DLR, I can't think of any reason why those five lines wouldn't be independently timetabled outside of maintenance trains.
 

Sleepy

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C2C is probably the closest you'll get to "self contained" network on the mainland.
 

A S Leib

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In a similar way, the St Erth to St Ives, Liskeard to Looe, Sudbury to Mark's Tey, Romford to Upminster, and Grove Park to Bromley North branches are all run as independent entities
I'd guess the Abbey and Marston Vale lines come close, apart from the once a day Euston – St. Albans Abbey. Bletchley – Bedford definitely won't be separate once Oxford services start though.

How segregated is Stranraer from the rest of the network?
 

telstarbox

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The far north lines can be run functionally independently of the mainline with their own platforms, but there are occasional diagram swaps and charters that link up the two sides. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been anything timetables "across" Inverness for a while.

In a similar way, the St Erth to St Ives, Liskeard to Looe, Sudbury to Mark's Tey, Romford to Upminster, and Grove Park to Bromley North branches are all run as independent entities, from their own bay platforms off the main line. Nothing interacts with the 'big railway' because the service runs as a shuttle, with the only interaction being at the start and end of service for unit positioning to and from the depot.

For a winner though, it would have to be the Stourbridge flyer.
Forgot about Bromley North!
 

cle

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C2C is probably the closest you'll get to "self contained" network on the mainland.
Tons of freight. Barking Riverside / LO. Services to Liverpool Street. Nope...

It's a very self-contained TOC / passenger operation, of course. But I don't think that is what the timetabling question is aimed at (independent operation) ?
 

Mcr Warrior

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How segregated is Stranraer from the rest of the network?
Obviously, it's quite remote, but there is currently the one daily passenger working from Stranraer to Glasgow Central (SuX), so I'm guessing that beyond Girvan/Ayr, it has to work around whatever else is pathed as running.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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If we’re talking about a route that is segregated, has no through freight or passenger services from other routes, no on/off empty stock moves and also does not get affected by service disruption I.e. being held for connections, then I suspect the Stourbridge Town branch is the only example.
 

12LDA28C

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I'd guess the Abbey and Marston Vale lines come close, apart from the once a day Euston – St. Albans Abbey. Bletchley – Bedford definitely won't be separate once Oxford services start though.

Bletchley - Bedford is years away from forming part of EWR though.
 

507020

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What are “independently timetabled networks” are we referring to individual lines that do not interact with others, or collective services of an operator? Anything that is timetabled with ANY consideration for connections onto other services does not count.
While there's a small amount of interaction at South Parkway-Hunts X and Chester, Merseyrail is as close to standalone as you're going to get.
As well as physically crossing the paths of other services at those locations, Merseyrail is supposed to be timed to connect with Northern services at Southport, Ormskirk and Headbolt Lane, so the the timetable is the combination of those 2 constraints, but depot moves do not leave “the Merseyrail network” while they remain on Network Rail infrastructure.

Chester is closer, with almost exclusive use of platform 7. To be independent, you definitely have to have your own platform.

During engineering works, Wigan Wallgate - Headbolt Lane shuttles have run, not timed to connect with anything and with the constraint being the need for the unit to complete a return trip within an hour. It didn’t visit a depot either.
In a similar way, the St Erth to St Ives, Liskeard to Looe, Sudbury to Mark's Tey, Romford to Upminster, and Grove Park to Bromley North branches are all run as independent entities, from their own bay platforms off the main line.
Though one advantage of the integrated GWR is that they do timetable things (as far as possible) to connect nicely and they do hold connections
GWR branches etc, despite bay platforms, can not count if timetabled to connect with main line services, even if connections aren’t held.

The Romford - Upminster or soon to be Liberty Line may actually be the most hyper efficient operation on the network, with a modern electric unit on its shuttle and no need to be timetabled to connect with anything more because of the frequencies on the main lines at each end and its proximity to Ilford depot has always meant the ECS mileage is absolutely minimal. This may be the best heavy rail example.
C2C is probably the closest you'll get to "self contained" network on the mainland.
Tons of freight. Barking Riverside / LO. Services to Liverpool Street.
On days when it doesn’t touch Stratford, the entire LT&S passenger timetable from Fenchurch Street is completely isolated from the rest of the network.

Unless the passenger timings are massively compromised by any through freight, then this doesn’t rule it out at all.
If we’re talking about a route that is segregated, has no through freight or passenger services from other routes, no on/off empty stock moves and also does not get affected by service disruption I.e. being held for connections, then I suspect the Stourbridge Town branch is the only example.
The ENTIRE “Stourbridge Shuttle Network” definitely works. Timings are nothing to do with the Snow Hill lines and it doesn’t need any depot movements. There should be some competition between it and the “Liberty Line Network”
 

Harpo

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So, GWR services from bays to insular branches can’t ‘count’ but the LTS (SX) with four LO services an hour right through the middle of it and on the same platforms at Barking can??
 
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The far north lines can be run functionally independently of the mainline with their own platforms, but there are occasional diagram swaps and charters that link up the two sides. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been anything timetables "across" Inverness for a while.

In a similar way, the St Erth to St Ives, Liskeard to Looe, Sudbury to Mark's Tey, Romford to Upminster, and Grove Park to Bromley North branches are all run as independent entities, from their own bay platforms off the main line. Nothing interacts with the 'big railway' because the service runs as a shuttle, with the only interaction being at the start and end of service for unit positioning to and from the depot.

For a winner though, it would have to be the Stourbridge flyer.
Marks Tey to Sudbury is timetabled to have good connections to and from London, and the connections are held if a train is slightly late
 

sh24

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St Erth - St Ives has at least one service a day extended to Penzance so there is a bit more overlap than, say, Liskeard - Looe.
 

The exile

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The far north lines can be run functionally independently of the mainline with their own platforms, but there are occasional diagram swaps and charters that link up the two sides. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been anything timetables "across" Inverness for a while.

In a similar way, the St Erth to St Ives, Liskeard to Looe..
Liskeard to Looe, yes, but there are trains that run in public service from Penzance to St Ives, otherwise it would be a good candidate as there are minimal layovers at each end, so it can’t be said to be timed to meet mainline connections (unless everything is perfectly clockface and aligned all day) Once (If) the Greenford service goes over to full battery operation, that’ll be another one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

And my second question - if the whole timetable was to be rewritten what would be set in stone first and what would fit around that?
Paths across key junctions….
 
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A S Leib

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And my second question - if the whole timetable was to be rewritten what would be set in stone first and what would fit around that?
Maybe Southeastern (High Speed) services, if it's just the GB timetable being rewritten and they have to work around Eurostar?
 

43074

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And my second question - if the whole timetable was to be rewritten what would be set in stone first and what would fit around that?
The top three would be paths through the Thameslink core, the Castlefield Corridor and Birmingham New Street.

I think it's one of the reasons the East Coast recast has come unstuck, as the new LNER timetable doesn't fit very well with TPE, Thameslink or XC respectively which are fixed by those constraints.
 

bluegoblin7

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I'm guessing you're excluding metro / tram systems, but are the tube Central, Jubilee, Northern, Victoria and Waterloo & City lines affected by anything else? Chiltern and the Overground eliminate the subsurface lines and Bakerloo, but apart from the Jubilee running parallel to the Metropolitan and DLR, I can't think of any reason why those five lines wouldn't be independently timetabled outside of maintenance trains.
The Jubilee and Met timetables are intrinsically linked due to sharing Neasden depot, and how the access arrangements work there. Historically there was also the opportunity for a lot more shared running, with the Met line often running the first and last ‘Jubilee‘ services north of Finchley Road.

I would agree with the remainder of your suppositions.
 

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The WCML timetable was rewritten a couple of years ago to add stops but the Manchester area times (Crewe or Colwich to Manchester) were unchanged, so the WCML changes accounted for this. Presumably because changing the Manchester area times would have meant changing the Crewe & Stoke local services, the XC services and knock-on effects beyond.
 

507020

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So, GWR services from bays to insular branches can’t ‘count’ but the LTS (SX) with four LO services an hour right through the middle of it and on the same platforms at Barking can??
Yes, because GWR branches are timed to connect with the main line, based on interfaces as far away as Reading and Paddington, if Fenchurch St services have timetable priority with freight and Barking Riverside overlaid
St Erth - St Ives has at least one service a day extended to Penzance so there is a bit more overlap than, say, Liskeard - Looe.
This is also not self contained
And my second question - if the whole timetable was to be rewritten what would be set in stone first and what would fit around that?
The top three would be paths through the Thameslink core, the Castlefield Corridor and Birmingham New Street.

I think it's one of the reasons the East Coast recast has come unstuck, as the new LNER timetable doesn't fit very well with TPE, Thameslink or XC respectively which are fixed by those constraints.
My understanding was that the fastest service, Euston - Glasgow, would be given it’s path first with everything else following.

Paths through the Thameslink core actually affect what can run out of Kings Cross, so if those are done first then LNER isn’t. The Kings Cross 6 tracking therefore only serves to absorb the constrains of running on the same ECML as Thameslink.

Birmingham New Street obviously isn’t done first because so many services have long dwells there, with a separate path at either end.
 

43074

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My understanding was that the fastest service, Euston - Glasgow, would be given it’s path first with everything else following.
Nope, as this doesn't give the optimum allocation of capacity through the pinch points on the network, you would start with those and work outwards
Paths through the Thameslink core actually affect what can run out of Kings Cross, so if those are done first then LNER isn’t. The Kings Cross 6 tracking therefore only serves to absorb the constrains of running on the same ECML as Thameslink.
That's kind of my point, Thameslink's paths are pretty fixed so LNER have to work around them. In the new East Coast timetable some LNER southbound paths have up to 5 minutes pathing approaching Woolmer Green Jn to allow a Thameslink in front for instance.
Birmingham New Street obviously isn’t done first because so many services have long dwells there, with a separate path at either end.
Check how little the Cross Country Voyager timings have changed over the last 20 years, I think you'll find they generally stay pretty fixed and timetable changes elsewhere are designed to work around them.
 
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