Is the Heathrow Express a viable, worthwhile service?

[HSTEd]

It seems Crossrail is bleeding away Heathrow Express's passenger base - which is not really surprising.

Given that open access operators do not, for the most part, come close to actually paying their costs, we do have to consider whether running trains with nine people per carriage on average is really a sensible use of taxpayers money.
(Once Network Rail subsidies are accounted for, there seems little chance HEx is actually paying the real costs).

 

[coppercapped]

Heathrow Express is not an Open Access operator as defined in the 1993 Railways Act as it predates privatisation. It was set up as a joint venture between BR and BAA plc following approval by the government in July 1988. It was planned to open in 1993.

Apparently Heathrow Express and its airport infrastructure count as part of Heathrow's Regulated Asset Base and so has an influence on the landing charges payable by Heathrow's airline customers. It is important for Heathrow that it continues to operate.

 

[Horizon22]

It seems Crossrail is bleeding away Heathrow Express's passenger base - which is not really surprising.

Given that open access operators do not, for the most part, come close to actually paying their costs, we do have to consider whether running trains with nine people per carriage on average is really a sensible use of taxpayers money.
(Once Network Rail subsidies are accounted for, there seems little chance HEx is actually paying the real costs).

Ultimately this is down to whether HAL want to continue to pay for it and the subsequent paths and clearly at present they do.

It would require some intervention from Network Rail if they wanted to say "no, the 4tph Main Line paths from Paddington could be better utilised".

 

[John R]

Ultimately this is down to whether HAL want to continue to pay for it and the subsequent paths and clearly at present they do.

It would require some intervention from Network Rail if they wanted to say "no, the 4tph Main Line paths from Paddington could be better utilised".

HEx ‘s track access rights are only until 2028 I believe. After that I suspect all bets are off.

 

[Horizon22]

HEx ‘s track access rights are only until 2028 I believe. After that I suspect all bets are off.

Well yes in the short-term nothing changes but will be interesting how it goes in the future.

The thing is Heathrow Airport probably should support at least 8tph or maintain the 10tph it has at the moment (6 from T5, [4 HEX, 2EL] & 4 from T4) however the Relief Lines are at capacity.

So you would need to run the trains fast and then into the Elizabeth line core (which means crossing the entirety of Ladbroke Grove regularly, a potential performance risk) or the Elizabeth line takes over the service but still terminating at Paddington which makes no real sense. Then there's whether HAL want to relinquish a service over the infrastructure they run, which is an unknown. So there's no easy solution although there have been other threads on this subject too.

 

[cslusarc]

I think the Heathrow Express can be a valuable & worthwhile service if it can freeze it's fares to stimulate demand.

 

[simple simon]

What I am about to say has to be treated as an uncorroborated rumour - although discussions in this thread (and in other threads) point towards this being a viable possibility.

One of my brothers is* travelling home from Heathrow, he has a through ticket to his home in Kent and decided that it would be 'least hassle' to avoid the Heathrow Express and instead catch an Elizabeth line train to Stratford, and then go to International for the SouthEastern HighSpeed.

He was speaking with someone else on the train who told him that someone who he knows who works on the railway had told him, that the Heathrow Express service is likely to be withdrawn, to create more paths for Eiizabeth line trains.

*At the time of writing this message is is indeed on an eastbound Lizzie train.

I can understand him avoiding the Heathrow Express, as otherwise he would also have to change trains at Paddington. But I do not know why he is alighting from the Elizabeth line train at Stratford rather than Farringdon. Not that either option is easier, as they both will require him to catch another train to reach the High Speed.

Sharing for interest

Simon

 

[michael8]

I do like the idea of HEX as an express premium service. I wonder if XR takes some paths, perhaps the additional paths could follow the service pattern of HEX ?

 

[dk1]

I do like the idea of HEX as an express premium service. I wonder if XR takes some paths, perhaps the additional paths could follow the service pattern of HEX ?

Would that not cause unnecessary conflicting moves on the approaches to Paddington?

 

[Horizon22]

Would that not cause unnecessary conflicting moves on the approaches to Paddington?

Yes.

There’s no more paths on the Relief Lines so that service is out of the question.

Running on the Main Lines fast would a) need an eastern terminus and b) lead to regular moves across the Paddington throat / Ladbroke Grove.

345s are also limited to 90 so the pathing would be even worse.

HeX has the money to continue the service at a loss for some time.

 

[JN114]

HeX has the money to continue the service at a loss for some time.

Point of order - I’m not aware of any figures suggesting HEx operates at a loss.

That said, Heathrow Airport does indeed have the money to run the service at a loss indefinitely; as the value of the service to the airport is not in the cash it returns; as has been stated by those in the know on this (and other) threads many times.

 

[Chiltern006]

Could it be at all possible to extend 4 shenfield-Paddington terminators to Heathrow and run fast?

 

[Mag_seven]

Could it be at all possible to extend 4 shenfield-Paddington terminators to Heathrow and run fast?

I doubt it - there would be too many conflicting moves at Ladbroke Grove and that's even without HEX.

 

[Chiltern006]

Forgot about that, knew there would be something haha

 

[dk1]

Yes.

There’s no more paths on the Relief Lines so that service is out of the question.

Running on the Main Lines fast would a) need an eastern terminus and b) lead to regular moves across the Paddington throat / Ladbroke Grove.

345s are also limited to 90 so the pathing would be even worse.

HeX has the money to continue the service at a loss for some time.

Cheers. They seemed the obvious answers.

 

[Horizon22]

Point of order - I’m not aware of any figures suggesting HEx operates at a loss.

That said, Heathrow Airport does indeed have the money to run the service at a loss indefinitely; as the value of the service to the airport is not in the cash it returns; as has been stated by those in the know on this (and other) threads many times.

Yes the latter is more what I meant!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jan 2025 ==

Could it be at all possible to extend 4 shenfield-Paddington terminators to Heathrow and run fast?

Theoretically yes. Would likely to be a wider rejig though with a mix of Abbey Wood & Shenfield as destinations from T5. Canary Wharf Group would certainly lobby for the direct train back after it ran for a year or so.

 

[simple simon]

re: ending the HeX service, I am not sure that passengers will welcome the loss of service from the mainline station. Especially those who travel to Paddington via road transport (bus, taxi etc).

Also, some passengers may welcome the non-stop service, seeing it as more restful than a service that calls at several intermediate station.

But, the direct through service to many other parts of London does give the Elizabeth line a competitive edge.

As for Paddington terminators, many will be needed for the service to OOC.

 

[JN114]

re: ending the HeX service, I am not sure that passengers will welcome the loss of service from the mainline station. Especially those who travel to Paddington via road transport (bus, taxi etc).

Also, some passengers may welcome the non-stop service, seeing it as more restful than a service that calls at several intermediate station.

But, the direct through service to many other parts of London does give the Elizabeth line a competitive edge.

As for Paddington terminators, many will be needed for the service to OOC.

They needn’t worry

It isn’t happening

 

[ijmad]

Surely stopping the HeX at Old Oak Common might actually make HeX more attractive and sustainable long term.

Any passenger coming in on HS2 or the GWML would have a quicker journey if they change there. It's likely gonna be a nicer, easier change compared to Paddington.

 

[yorkie]

... someone who he knows who works on the railway had told him, that the Heathrow Express service is likely to be withdrawn, to create more paths for Elizabeth line trains...

That person isn't as knowledgeable as numerous forum members, who have ruled it out, for reasons stated above.

Working on the railway could mean almost any job, and almost any level/grade. I personally wouldn't take particular note of anything that a random person who works on the railway says, unless it came from a manager or reputable source.

Surely stopping the HeX at Old Oak Common might actually make HeX more attractive and sustainable long term.

Any passenger coming in on HS2 or the GWML would have a quicker journey if they change there. It's likely gonna be a nicer, easier change compared to Paddington.

Check out this thread:

What should be done with Heathrow Express once Old Oak Common opens? And how could the paths be best used?

The Capital's largest airport really ought to remain on the National Rail network. It seems like they take a very customer focussed approach with their ticket touting at the station. First Class seems lacklustre, with having no catering, that's something they could improve. It's a shame that the...

www.railforums.co.uk

Old Oak Common

Explore HS2’s Old Oak Common station in West London: a transformational transport superhub with up to 14 platforms, seamless connections to conventional lines and a key driver of regeneration and sustainable urban growth.

www.hs2.org.uk

Not only will the station offer journeys on HS2, it is being built with connections to GWR, Elizabeth Line, and Heathrow Express services. It will be the 42nd stop on London’s new Elizabeth line enabling passengers to get to the West End in 10 minutes, Liverpool Street Station in 20 minutes and Heathrow, via either the Elizabeth Line or the Heathrow Express, also in 10 minutes. This once industrial area is being transformed into a thriving super-connected neighbourhood and building a legacy for generations to come.

 

[michael8]

They needn’t worry

It isn’t happening

Good, I'm relieved