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Is it worth it?

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CromptonLad

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3 Dec 2015
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Hi folks,

Just got my third rejection from a TOC for staff today. Third in three months from three separate TOCs. Is it worth continuing trying to find a job or really, am I just not worth it? :(

How many times did it take people to finally get 'on board'?

Constructive advice welcome.
 
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TDGinge

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I went for an assessment day with a TOC the other week, and the girl in our group had applied 19 times!

She even had relations that worked for the company but that obviously hadn't made any difference.

I would say do the research and keep trying.

If at first you don't succeed..... :)
 

Tubeboy

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Depends how much you want to work on the railway. It took me a couple of goes to work for London Underground. Keep trying!
 

Memetim

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Is there a specific role you were looking at?

Was 2 attempts for me, around a year from my first application to being offered the job with the second application. After getting no further than a 'thanks but no thanks' from the first application I took an extra part time job on the helpdesk for the rail department of a local company, as it made me realise my CV didn't exactly scream 'railway experience' and the safety critical work I had previously done was many years earlier.

I know a combination of people who have waited years and done numerous applications, and others that have got straight in for various railway jobs. There has not been anything particularly different between them, combination of well completed applications and applying for the right job at the right time I guess.

If its something you really want to do then don't give up. Take a step back, re-evaluate your applications and see if there is anything you think you could do to improve or add to it. There is plenty of information on here for various positions and there never seems to be a shortage of people willing to offer advice.
 
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dakta

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577
If its something you really want to do then don't give up

This!

I know someone who got in fairly quickly, myself I'm about to turn 27 and had my first interview just before my 21st. Still not in, but I have been occupying myself in the meantime, obviously.

I suppose it boils down to how much you want to do the job, for me it's quite deeply rooted, so I'll keep applying whenever the opportunity arises.

In the meantime, I live my life - getting your dream job can be a lifetimes work and you don't want it to flash on by either. Railways is my number 1 objective, but I've made sure I have other interests too, you can't guarentee anything in life :( and work doesn't always equal results.
 
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Took me 5 attempts - failed two final interviews after passing assessments, failed one video interview and failed one SJE via email, all within a year, successful at 5th attempt. I also got instant rejects from 2 others at application stage.

Never underestimate the amount of preparation you need for these things. Sure you'll meet the odd person who just glided in off the street first attempt, but that is rare. I put in hundred and hundreds of hours of prep in for the year of applying, I read these forums religiously, I practiced the dots test for hours, read the railway press, played bop-it, wrote and learned answers to dozens of interview questions, got bored friends and relatives to grill me over and over....

The marginal net gains of such prep can be slim, 1-2%, but it is this 1-2% that puts you ahead of the crowd. If you are passionate enough and want it badly enough, then you won't dodge the effort required.
 

scotsman

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Took me a few attempts. Had a couple knocked back straight away, then I sent a speculative application to an onboard catering contractor, who liked me and took me on. Whilst I was there I applied for two TOCs several months apart - one knocked me back straight away, whereas I got the job with the second.

The key is know what each job is after. Is it sales? Customer service? Thinking on your feet? Being analytical? Working alone? Team work? An interest in trains or railways should barely go beyond a sentence in the personal statement - if that. The TOCs are after someone who will do the job well, and keep the customers safe and happy.

What roles have you been applying for?
 

JCLeeds

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196
I wouldn't be disheartened by a few knock backs. My own experience is that I very, very, nearly did it off the street at first attempt - passed everything including DM interview and only fell down by getting a 'borderline' pass at the penultimate of the old style assessments, which means I didn't take the MMI and passed all the rest (NB that was Northern who do the DMi before the tests). Since then I have applied for Freightliner 3 times and not even got so far as a reply from my application, and same for DBS, though to be fair to them they pulled their recruitment program after advertising.

it was the knowledge of how far I got with Northern that kept me going - if FLiner had been first it may have been enough to make me give up. Latest is that I am one of the many now hoping to be asked to DMi with FTPE.

is it worth it? Surely it costs you nothing to apply and must be worth the sporadic effort needed to keep going, if you really want to do this?

It's a very tough market- but in my recent experience the whole job market is incredibly tough now anyway - the worst I've known, by a long way, in 25 years of work
 

455driver

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10 May 2010
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11,329
Hi folks,

Just got my third rejection from a TOC for staff today. Third in three months from three separate TOCs. Is it worth continuing trying to find a job or really, am I just not worth it? :(

How many times did it take people to finally get 'on board'?

Constructive advice welcome.

Find out what let you down then work at fixing it!
Was it at the application stage or at interview?

I thought there was a time limit for jobs even between TOCs, I wonder if that is anything to do with it, sort of an automatic rejection because your applications were too close together?
 

Wallicio

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14 Aug 2015
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226
First time.

Although I think there is an element of luck attached to it as I am nothing special mate.
Keep trying and good luck ??????
 

CromptonLad

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3 Dec 2015
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57
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Birmingham
Gents,

Thanks for those figures. It gives a little hope I may be successful in the future maybe.

To give more information, for a fairer view, all three were conductor postings. Two were specifically 'trainee' and one was 'train manager'.

I currently work in a role which is in a shifts based, safety critical, random drug testing environment.

However it has given me a lot of decision making, customer handling and safety critical experience. Prior to this I have a shedload of customer service / telesales/complaint handling/sensitive issues experience. Mostly call centre based but in the complaint handler and the last job before the operations, I did have a few face to face experiences.

When I was a volunteer on a little railway, I was in the train staff and so had plenty of ticket, face to face, signposting experience picked up. One day I recall conducting a tour round the shed for an American visitor and reeling off the history of said line, he left quite impressed. Editor's note: the passengers was the good bit.

TOCswise
The first was in late September -this one actually got me a place in their 'reserve pool' / 'pipeline'. I am hoping, fervently, that with the "good news" that came today, this would mean that said pool would be opening up and perhaps a call-up will come soon. I confirmed this via a chaser email end of October, where the replied and said I was "definitely in the pipeline". A little Xmas miracle, but you can't rely on this I understand?

The second was end of October. This didn't go so well.

The third was last week and was a day trip. This one was the 'golden opportunity' I'd have liked as a relocation as well would have been fantastic. Initial apps, fine. Testing, fine. Group exercise - seemingly fine as I got to final interview. Problem was that on this I got 'hard mode' and also lost my nerve in the interview. I could say more but don't wish to project 'personal speculation' which could be unfair. The rejection for that came today.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Preparation is a must must must. I thoroughly agree with this. For TOC #1 I quit a weekend vacation in Wales [meant to leave Monday morning; left Sunday morning instead] to come home and prepare like hell for the tests - dots testing [had to find out about this online] and the rapid-fire ticket sales and checking tests. This paid off at the testing stage.

For TOC #2 I spent a day revising the same near nonstop. This was ultimately in vain.

TOC #3 did online testing and sent mails across - this was the hardest of the three TOCs as they had math-manipulation, non-verbal reasoning [pick which shape follows the pattern next] and close-follow-reasoning questions "All people in A have dogs. Some people in B have cats. Do people in B have dogS?" etc. Nailed it though and got to the group + interview round.

~~~

I am aware that "I like railways" alone means nothing. And rightly so really because although if you find a job that you're passionate about, if you're not right for the role just because, then really, don't do it. Railway staff need to be safety conscious at all times and attentive as well as have a thick skin - as any public role requires.

I guess I'm going to have to bide my time methinks. Further thoughts always appreciated.
 
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Bellbell

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16 Oct 2013
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245
'Gents' won't be doing much to aid your application ;) . Mostly lighthearted, that comment, but remember that they will be looking for attention to detail.

I got in first time, off the street, I think in part because I was largely oblivious to how the odds were stacked against me, so I wasn't as stressed as some might be, if that makes sense.

You obviously have something they like about you, you're just not getting over that final hurdle. Take some time, step back, evaluate where exactly you might have gone wrong. Although the tests are objective and the interview questions standard there is always going to be some subjectivity in hiring, so how you interact at ALL stages of your assessment day/interview is crucial.

If you're in a talent pool it depends, from what I can gather, on the TOC as to whether that means anything. Certainly with my TOC the talent pool is genuine; people I interviewed with were offered jobs as much as a year later.
 

CromptonLad

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Bellbell, may I ask what your TOC is? [merely curious re 'genuine' talent pool or if the one I refer to was politely fobbing me off...]
 

CromptonLad

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ML - thanks for the insight. And I thought my three months of three was 'a war' of its own. Puts me in my place! :)

I noticed for the two TOCs that I interviewed with, it was indeed the last interview that got me. Both times, there were groups of interviewers.

I'm going to keep trying, as I have had a couple of staff from other TOCs reckon I'd be suitable for the role.

I have also had a glimmer of hope re the 'reserve pool' TOC given the "good news" that came out in the industry today. So fingers crossed?
 
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Juniper Driver

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Sorry for your bad luck CL.

I didn't get in straight away either.Was told by my guardians at the time in about 1981 to write a letter to BR which I did.I was told there were no available jobs so I thought that was it.Then near on 1982 I was offered a job interview and then a cleaners job.The 1982 strike also delayed me commencing my railway career.

Also applied for a job on the tube about the same time but didn't get it,so things could have taken a different course and my history would have been different.Any way hopefully you won't give up,just keep trying.It's worth it.I know my words are easier to type than actually doing said action.I've never regretted getting a job on the railway.

Good luck.
 
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TDGinge

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The thing that stood out for me in your comment made previously about the last interview was, " lost my nerve in the interview"...

Keeping your cool in a rail environment is key, perhaps that could be something to focus on? I know it's hard in the interview. When I sat down for mine I felt like I could hardly breath and had an apple in my throat. A few deep breaths to relax, and it soon felt like a friendly relaxed, yet very formal chat.

Out of curiosity who was the third TOC? Feel free to DM if you don't wish to disclose on the public forum.
 

CromptonLad

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I was on hold for seven months for my current role...

Were you given a rough date at all or was it just "you're in the pipeline" and then they called you back randomly saying "Hey, you still want a job?"

Sorry for your bad luck CL.

I didn't get in straight away either.Was told by my guardians at the time in about 1981 to write a letter to BR which I did.I was told there were no available jobs so I thought that was it.Then near on 1982 I was offered a job interview and then a cleaners job.The 1982 strike also delayed me commencing my railway career.

Also applied for a job on the tube about the same time but didn't get it,so things could have taken a different course and my history would have been different.Any way hopefully you won't give up,just keep trying.It's worth it.I know my words are easier to type than actually doing said action.I've never regretted getting a job on the railway.

Good luck.

Thanks for the input Juniper. Plan will be to continue - use these as a trial and error exercise. Meanwhile keep in touch with my multiple friends who already work for an array of TOCs and just try and pick up experience I can off them. For now it's just a case of trying to find suitable roles in the area.

The thing that stood out for me in your comment made previously about the last interview was, " lost my nerve in the interview"...

Keeping your cool in a rail environment is key, perhaps that could be something to focus on? I know it's hard in the interview. When I sat down for mine I felt like I could hardly breath and had an apple in my throat. A few deep breaths to relax, and it soon felt like a friendly relaxed, yet very formal chat.

Out of curiosity who was the third TOC? Feel free to DM if you don't wish to disclose on the public forum.

Afraid I did lose my nerve, I'll happily admit that which was my own fault. Part of it was due to stewing, waiting so long. Part of it was that I had forgotten what I'd swotted up on and it made me look as if I'd not bothered preparing. :( Muttering that I'd got stage fright did not do me any favours either. :roll:

Problem was, I've done so many interviews they usually don't phase me. Interviews, I'm fine with. The itch with TOC #3 was that it wasn't just "another job" or even a step up, "oh boy, a job on the railways with ace pay." It was going to be a life changer. New job. Decent salary. Leaving the West Midlands. Had even started looking up agency lettings in the town the TOC was basing off. Had I got it, it would have been a leveller after what has been a crap few years for me down here.

DM on way.
 
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RedZed

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First application with DBS last June 2014 and never heard anything till last Jan when they invited me for assessment last January. Passed the assessments only to have DBS pull the plug on recruitment. Applied for GTR on 21st April, sat DFFT 6th July as previous assessments must have been to required standard. Passed and got invited to DMI 27th July. Passed that and now languishing in talent pool waiting for a medical. Didn't really do any 'revising or practice' except for interview to gen up on the company.
Guess I must have been very lucky to get to where I am first go.
 

Browny

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If you have failed at interview stage, does anyone know if there is a certain amount of time before you can re apply for the same TOC?
 

nick40uk

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If you have failed at interview stage, does anyone know if there is a certain amount of time before you can re apply for the same TOC?

Usually six months. However I believe you can apply for another TOC even if they are owned by the same people (eg TPE and GWR) without waiting the six months
 

red2005

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Well if you give up you'll never truly know if it is worth it will you? :D

3 months!!?......I've had longer rest breaks than that lol ;)

remember mate you are going up against thousands of people and i mean that literally, especially for conductor jobs. There is so much luck involved it's unreal so you just have to keep going until it is your time.

I was fortunate enough to get on first time as a guard but i was initially rejected for one of the 10 jobs that were available at the time despite passing everything so was put on hold in the hope they recruited again sometime in the future. Then out of nowhere on the Friday i receive a phone call saying someone has had a change in circumstances and do i want to be on the course on the Monday??

Started the job and then basically applied for driving all over the country every year since and after 7 years as a guard finally got one.........if timescales are your thing I'd seriously forget about them whilst in the railway application/recruitment stage as very rarely do things happen quickly or run smoothly lol.
 

evoluzione

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1st time for me, from applying to starting in Training School was just under 12 weeks, right place, right time and a little luck I guess.
 
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332 > 444

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Applied for TfL 3 times for different roles, got rejected after final interview for all three, then applied to ONE on paper and got rejected. Later in 2007 applied for 2 TOCs, one of them is where i'm currently at now.

8 years later i apply to GTR for trainee driver and pass the assessments but fell short on the DMI. Since then i have applied to AGA and LOROL with an "application on hold" for AGA and a long sifting wait with LOROL.

Patience is the key and positivity, and don't slack when you think you got things handled!
 

stevieoz

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I feel your pain Cromptonlad.

I applied to Freightliner Intermodal and made it to the DM interview, I am still receiving regular updates to inform me that the positions are delayed but going ahead.

In the meantime I applied to C2C and was invited to assessments. this was not long after the DM interview so I declined the offer. I regret that decision.

Since then I have applied to AGA, LM and EMT all of which I have not progressed past the application stage.

I think I became to cocky, I will now work a lot harder at my applications and hope I improve.
 

scotsman

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Were you given a rough date at all or was it just "you're in the pipeline" and then they called you back randomly saying "Hey, you still want a job?"

Kind of. I got in touch with the manager, who kept me updated as to when a vacancy was opening up.
 

Flintstone

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It took me about 20 attempts to get in. This is better than average as well. If you think 3 attempts is a lot you give up far too easily and are unlikely to get anywhere.
 

387star

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I feel your pain Cromptonlad.

I applied to Freightliner Intermodal and made it to the DM interview, I am still receiving regular updates to inform me that the positions are delayed but going ahead.

In the meantime I applied to C2C and was invited to assessments. this was not long after the DM interview so I declined the offer. I regret that decision.

Since then I have applied to AGA, LM and EMT all of which I have not progressed past the application stage.

I think I became to cocky, I will now work a lot harder at my applications and hope I improve.

This resonates with me

The hardest test can be to pass and then have to make choices whether to go for other jobs particularly if the one you past for is the one you want it is like gambling as they never give away your score etc

It can also be too easy to think Ive past with another toc who i want the job with more so doesnt matter too much if i pass this.. Think that you wont pass
But really you have to keep going endlessly till you get there

The mainline /depot issue is of note as if depot isnt what you really want you feel if you pass what if in another life had you only waited a a month later and the mainline toc gave you a date? You might well still go mainline but it could be a long wait and depot driving is quite a different job as well
 
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