Is any TOC more hated by its customers than Southeastern?

[lookingforit35]

Silly passenger! Getting all angry when he should just lie back and take it!

I make the point again. Without honest communication from Southeastern, what are its passengers meant to think?

No need for sarcasm. I never maintained he was silly, but now you mention it he does make himself look slightly foolish with his unending rants.

I am absolutely no apologist for Southeastern as I use their service every day. But I also accept the world isnt perfect and that consistently firing off letters copied to my MP on every occassion will eventually lead to me being written off as a serial moaner.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yes, as always, it's the passenger's fault. Silly passenger.

Thats not what he said though.

what he said is that the blog isn't very informed and is just someone complaining. He never stated he is wrong he never said it was his fault or he was 'silly' he simply stated that it wasnt a factual blog which it isnt. It is formed from the opinions of disgruntled commuter.

 

[TrenHotel]

Thats not what he said though.

what he said is that the blog isn't very informed and is just someone complaining.

So why aren't Southeastern informing their passengers?

If their communications were better, this passenger might not be "just someone complaining" and might not have started the blog in the first place.

 

[YorkshireBear]

So why aren't Southeastern informing their passengers?

If their communications were better, this passenger might not be "just someone complaining" and might not have started the blog in the first place.

I havent a clue, im simply saying your quite nasty sarcastic reply was not warrented. I do not work for SE so i don't know.

 

[TrenHotel]

I havent a clue, im simply saying your quite nasty sarcastic reply was not warrented. I do not work for SE so i don't know.

It's been an recurring theme on this thread, though, that it's all the passenger's fault. Silly passengers for not knowing enough. Silly passengers for complaining about things - to their MP!, even. How dare someone complain to their MP about a company they're subsidising through their tax, as well as paying huge sums in fares for!

But when a train company can't talk to its customers on the platform properly, and when its corporate communications are found wanting - this is what happens. Grievances build up and trust is lost.

This is what has happened with Southeastern, no matter how dumb you might think its passengers are.

 

[SF-02]

It's been an recurring theme on this thread, though, that it's all the passenger's fault. Silly passengers for not knowing enough. Silly passengers for complaining about things - to their MP!, even. How dare someone complain to their MP about a company they're subsidising through their tax, as well as paying huge sums in fares for!

But when a train company can't talk to its customers on the platform properly, and when its corporate communications are found wanting - this is what happens. Grievances build up and trust is lost.

This is what has happened with Southeastern, no matter how dumb you might think its passengers are.

Amen to that.

Southeastern have never bothered to reply to any question directly when I've contacted them. Oh sorry I lie. Once they did - they said short formed trains would only last a couple of weeks. That was 4 months ago and the number of short trains is still huge. Far more than at any time in a decade. No reasons ever given as to why. Just vague nonsense about looking to improve.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It's been an recurring theme on this thread, though, that it's all the passenger's fault. Silly passengers for not knowing enough. Silly passengers for complaining about things - to their MP!, even. How dare someone complain to their MP about a company they're subsidising through their tax, as well as paying huge sums in fares for!

But when a train company can't talk to its customers on the platform properly, and when its corporate communications are found wanting - this is what happens. Grievances build up and trust is lost.

This is what has happened with Southeastern, no matter how dumb you might think its passengers are.

again this is not what i am argueing with i am aware SE are s*** at that and are in the wrong...... cant be arsed explaining again.

 

[lookingforit35]

It's been an recurring theme on this thread, though, that it's all the passenger's fault. Silly passengers for not knowing enough. Silly passengers for complaining about things - to their MP!, even. How dare someone complain to their MP about a company they're subsidising through their tax, as well as paying huge sums in fares for!

But when a train company can't talk to its customers on the platform properly, and when its corporate communications are found wanting - this is what happens. Grievances build up and trust is lost.

This is what has happened with Southeastern, no matter how dumb you might think its passengers are.

Let's just get this straight. I've no beef with you, but my post did not state that passengers (and this chap in particular) are silly or that I think SE passengers are dumb - I am one after all so that would be a bit rich no? And I dont think that SE are particularly adept at communicating either.

But for some reason you feel sarcasm is the best way to respond to my post, and that those that disagree with any part of your opinion must believe that it's all the passengers fault.

My humble advice is to read a post carefully, then read it again, before jumping in at the deep end. You might even find that people are agreeing with much of what you say, but in life everyone's opinions dont coincide 100%. But whatever you do, dont respond with sarcasm and/or assumptions. enough said from me I think.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Let's just get this straight. I've no beef with you, but my post did not state that passengers (and this chap in particular) are silly or that I think SE passengers are dumb - I am one after all so that would be a bit rich no? And I dont think that SE are particularly adept at communicating either.

But for some reason you feel sarcasm is the best way to respond to my post, and that those that disagree with any part of your opinion must believe that it's all the passengers fault.

My humble advice is to read a post carefully, then read it again, before jumping in at the deep end. You might even find that people are agreeing with much of what you say, but in life everyone's opinions dont coincide 100%. But whatever you do, dont respond with sarcasm and/or assumptions. enough said from me I think.

Thats the explanation i couldnt arsed giving at 02:21 this morning

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Fair enough Jimmy - those who use Southeastern are (in fairness) - best placed to comment.

I would not comment on Northern or TPE as I infrequnely use them - and then off peak !!

 

[TrenHotel]

My humble advice is to read a post carefully, then read it again, before jumping in at the deep end. You might even find that people are agreeing with much of what you say, but in life everyone's opinions dont coincide 100%. But whatever you do, dont respond with sarcasm and/or assumptions. enough said from me I think.

My humble advice is to put yourself in that passenger's shoes. A passenger that never gets satisfactory answers from their train company. That suffers delays day in, day out, and has to put up with higher-than-everyone else's fare rises.

Commuting can drive people crazy - and a little obsessive. That may have happened here. But none of the faults of the blogger highlighted here excuses Southeastern's failing to give him honest, timely and useful information - for which he's paying an ever-increasing rate for.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Fair enough Jimmy - those who use Southeastern are (in fairness) - best placed to comment.

I would not comment on Northern or TPE as I infrequnely use them - and then off peak !!

I never really gave opinion on SE simply agreed that they are bad at communicating to try and get across to Trenhotel that i was not argueing with him and he could stop bombarding me/us with information on how bad SE are.

My humble advice is to put yourself in that passenger's shoes. A passenger that never gets satisfactory answers from their train company. That suffers delays day in, day out, and has to put up with higher-than-everyone else's fare rises.

Commuting can drive people crazy - and a little obsessive. That may have happened here. But none of the faults of the blogger highlighted here excuses Southeastern's failing to give him honest, timely and useful information - for which he's paying an ever-increasing rate for.

I give up....

 

[HH]

Looks like Abelio Greater Anglia maybe coming up on the rails and they havent even taken over yet......

Getting rid of 15 units on the GE mainline now confirmed in the news tonight.....

and almost ZERO improvement for passengers in the standards of trains in the well thought out, very long 29 month franchise.....

They may very well have SERIOUSLY underestimated the simmering hatred towards operators who take the p**s out of passengers such as NX....

Abelio Greater Anglia the new National Express???????

Let's get back to something interesting. Does anyone know which units they're losing, and who's getting them?

On the face of it, it seems an odd thing to do if it wasn't specified by the DfT. I presume it means a lot of current 12 cars will become 8. Based on what happens when NX short form (which happens quite regularly) that won't be pleasant at all.

My only thought is that they're targeting a much improved percentage of trains in service, but that seems very ambitious.

 

[NSEFAN]

My humble advice is to put yourself in that passenger's shoes. A passenger that never gets satisfactory answers from their train company. That suffers delays day in, day out, and has to put up with higher-than-everyone else's fare rises.

Commuting can drive people crazy - and a little obsessive. That may have happened here. But none of the faults of the blogger highlighted here excuses Southeastern's failing to give him honest, timely and useful information - for which he's paying an ever-increasing rate for.

To be fair, reasons are given for the short formed trains mentioned in that blog: "Train Fault". I can't see that most passengers would need more information than this.

Instead, Southeastern should be working to reduce the number of said faults, whatever these might be. I'd much rather they do this than waste time giving out precise technical details.

 

[EM2]

Southeastern should be working to reduce the number of said faults, whatever these might be. I'd much rather they do this than waste time giving out precise technical details.

I think if they were giving a timescale as to how long this might go on for, people might be a little more forgiving.

 

[Expression357]

Just to clarify something on this thread earlier: "disruptive passengers" means everything from people holding the doors, people fighting on board, emergency passenger alarm activations (that have to be reset) and everything in between.

 

[NSEFAN]

I think if they were giving a timescale as to how long this might go on for, people might be a little more forgiving.

That is true. I'm sure if people were given alternative travel plans/information then that would help matters too. Although this is not always straightforward, I'd be suprised if Southeastern had no contigency plans whatsoever.

On a related note, it seems the Southeastern network has a history of problems. This 1990s documentary looks at the daily life of Network Southeast. I wonder how many problems faced in the show are still problems today?

 

[Southern]

Well, last night Southeastern managed to prove yet again that their planning and communication skills are basically non-existent as hundreds descended on their services for the Blackheath Firework Display. What followed was a crush loaded 1910 Dartford via Bexleyheath, formed of a single 465, standing at London Bridge for about 5 minutes as they tried to get the doors closed. Que a rush to Platform 1 to join the 1914 Dartford Loop service (another single 465), with a PA system that seemed to disagree with the boards at London Bridge as to whether the train would be going to Lewisham. Driver didn't bother to correct this so everyone gets off at St Johns to watch the train branch off towards Lewisham.

While there, observed more crush loaded 4/6 car services heading for the flyover. The 10 car Electrostar/Networker services that were running turned up too late for people heading to the display but hopefully would have been around after for the crowds heading back to Blackheath Station. The effort is definitely there, which is appreciated but poor organisational skills doom the same scenes to repeat themselves over and over.

 

[TrenHotel]

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/ is currently promising a "good service" on the Bexleyheath line.

There's actually no service - replaced by buses today.
http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/dep/BXH

 

[HH]

On a related note, it seems the Southeastern network has a history of problems. This 1990s documentary looks at the daily life of Network Southeast. I wonder how many problems faced in the show are still problems today?

I lived in Blackheath in the 70s. It was horrendous then. I think NR manage possessions better than was done under Railtrack and the end of BR. What some SouthEast's problems are, as I understand it (and I'm sure someone will know more), are down the basic infrastructure, which go back to pre-BR. It's the slowest part of the SE due to slows not being separated, plus there are lots of crossovers.

The London Bridge area in particular is a nightmare. I'm not sure how much will get fixed in the TL plans for 2015-16.

 

[TrenHotel]

However good/bad British Rail were in the 1970s, at least they didn't lie to passengers about there being a "good service" when there was engineering works on their line.

Crap infrastructure - a difficult issue. Crap communication - less so.

 

[yorksrob]

I lived in Blackheath in the 70s. It was horrendous then. I think NR manage possessions better than was done under Railtrack and the end of BR. What some SouthEast's problems are, as I understand it (and I'm sure someone will know more), are down the basic infrastructure, which go back to pre-BR. It's the slowest part of the SE due to slows not being separated, plus there are lots of crossovers.

The London Bridge area in particular is a nightmare. I'm not sure how much will get fixed in the TL plans for 2015-16.

I believe that they're putting in a fly-under south of London Bridge to sort out the Thameslink conflicts, and I'm sure I read that the spur between the main lines at St Johns and the Nunhead - Lewisham line will be doubled.

Should get rid of some, but not all of the crossovers.

 

[SF-02]

Another sterling effort by southeastern. This isn't exceptional -

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/your-journey/live-running-information/?id=1301746814

Can any other TOC top that for short formed trains in the rush hour?

 

[Southern]

Quite a list they have up, although some of the short formed services are part of one diagram, i.e. 1556 Bedford - Sevenoaks (4vice8) goes on to work 1832 Sevenoaks - Kentish Town.

 

[TrenHotel]

17:06 London Cannon Street to Gillingham Kent due 18:30
This train will be terminated at Greenwich at 17:17.
Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 6.
This train will no longer call at Charlton, Woolwich Arsenal, Abbey Wood, Dartford, Greenhithe For Bluewater, Gravesend, Higham, Strood, Rochester, Chatham and Gillingham Kent.
This is due to a train fault.

Or, as a pal on that train, turfed off at 17:55 at Greenwich, has put it in a text to me:

"They never told us anything for over 30 mins other than that they didn't know what was happening. 'We're working on our communications' - yeah, right."

 

[87015]

Another sterling effort by southeastern.

Same effort they put into getting yesterdays AM peak back together after 375xxx came to grief at Penge. NR had moved the offending clutter which had damaged the shoegear shortly after 0600, ready to mvoe train and reopen line, took two further hours for SE staff to arrive to inspect unit and give the all clear.

 

[TrenHotel]

Here's another passenger's experiences - http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail

selected tweets from a passenger attempting to get to Westcombe Park:

Hearing of more major issues this eve than usual via London Bridge. Anyone confirm signal failure? #Southeastern
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133965608806137856

No indication at Charing Cross that 18.12 to Slade Green will be affected. giving it a go... #Southeastern
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133969480891117568

Leaving CHX now, late, at 18.14. No further announcements have been made on station or train. Still clueless. #Southeastern
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133970860133466112

Right. Left WAE late. Overheard boarding pax mutter that sign on front of train shows Lewisham. Still no announcement given #Southeastern
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133972320330072064

Just outside LBR. Refreshed NRE app to find cancelled beyond. No announcement from driver so don't know a thing. #Southeastern
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133972971726446593

Left LBR 18.25. Getting later, STILL no announcements. I don't know where I'm going, just that it won't be where I need to be. #Southeastern
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133973840194842624

Anxiety and cynicism growing on this train. Driver ought to announce something. #Southeastern
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133975289607897088

BINGBONG!!! Followed by silence, presume to be somewhere near Lewisham. #Southeastern
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133976148802682880

BINGBONG! More silence. Just arrived at Lewisham.
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133976685791019008

Waiting at Lewisham, with no onboard announcement. Can't hear platform announcement to get anything from it. Might be for us. #Southeastern
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133977224587120640

Stopping at Blackheath. Will we stop at Charlton? I have no idea. Another BINGBONG but driver seems mute. #Southeastern carriage 61626.
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133977970653151234

Finally to Charlton. No announcement or apology. Or idea. #Southeastern #Fail
http://twitter.com/#!/se10_railfail/status/133979619572465664

 

[Class2ldn]

Right Im a driver for se. In answer to an earlier question about holding the stopping service.on the Greenwich line for the gillingham services well its quite simply because its a semi fast. If you stick it behind a stopper by the time it gets to gillingham or the cross it will be well down on time. The problem with maintenance is that all the fitters (metro) are based slade green now instead of individual depots so they have to travel from there to any other depot to fix any issues. If its not possible the train gets cancelled its as simple as that. Ive had to lock coaches out and take the train to dartford because its nearer to slade green and they wont travel to cannon to fix it. We get cheesed off aswell. I had a five car instead of a ten car a few weeks back. It was chaos. Who got it in the neck. ...Me. Dont blame the drivers just because we are the first point of call. We Dont go in and say oh i fancy a 4 car today. We Dont decide we just have to put up with it. They've also changed the fire regs but not going into that as still find it strange.

 

[Southern]

1800/1815 Victoria - Orpington 4vice8 this evening, the latter wedged upon arrival at Herne Hill, left 6 minutes late thanks to the hoards waiting who tried to board it, plus the escapees from a neighbouring FCC service.

 

[stanley T]

1800/1815 Victoria - Orpington 4vice8 this evening, the latter wedged upon arrival at Herne Hill, left 6 minutes late thanks to the hoards waiting who tried to board it, plus the escapees from a neighbouring FCC service.

Yep, I was one of the hordes at Herne Hill. I have had three short formations
( 4 car 465s twice, 5 car 375 once) in the past week at evening peak. It seems like a sudden collapse - what is going on? Anything to do with the leaf fall?