Is an Failure To Pay Notice A Life Long Threat?

[User123]

I was issued with an FTP a couple of weeks ago. I ended up in that position because a member of Northern Rail staff had instructed me to board a train and pay at the end of the journey.

I am appealing the FTP. I don't object to buying a ticket, I actually tried to buy a ticket. But what concerns me is what happens if it happens again.

I am told by Northern Rail, that if I am issued another FTP, then it is instant prosecution. What I am not told is how long that threat lasts for? Is that something I have to face hanging over me for the rest of my life?

You might say "so what, just always buy a ticket" but what if some time in the future a member of rail staff makes a mistake and I am sold a ticket that is invalid and caught? Then I get prosecuted. And if I complain, what evidence might I have that I was mis-sold the ticket?

Maybe you think this is a long shot, but I'm an honest person. I dont like being criminalised for trivial matters, and I especially don't appreciate being turned into a criminal because of errors by rail staff.

 

[cuccir]

First - whatever you do in future, you can (hopefully) only be successfully prosecuted if you commit a crime. The Failure to Pay Notices have no real legal basis - all they are is a note that you will not be considered for any out of court settlements by Northern if you are suspected of committing a crime in future.

Second - staff do make mistakes. Legally, you have an obligation to check the validity of your tickets. If you are concerned, then raise that with staff. But equally staff sometimes get things wrong - if any prosecution takes place based on a staff error then I'd advise speaking to a lawyer, as well as people here who will be willing to assist.

Third - we can't really know how to respond to this appropriately without knowing what you're talking about ie without knowing whether or not you may have committed an offence.

 

[Flamingo]

... I dont like being criminalised for trivial matters...

Well, now you know that traveling without a ticket is not a trivial matter.

Tell your friends.

 

[fowler9]

Ah come on guys, there was a women who works at my local suburban station in Liverpool who once asked me what I normally pay when I asked for a return to Ribblehead. She did the same when I was going to Woking once. She couldn't work the machine full stop and so many people on here act like anyone with a query is on the make. Five years later things aren't much better, there is a bloke who always tells you the machine is broke if it isn't a return to Lime Street. Plenty of scope to trip up people who don't know all of the rules and regulations.

 

[talltim]

What happens at a change of franchisee. Do they pass all the records across?

 

[Paul Kelly]

What happens at a change of franchisee. Do they pass all the records across?

Surely after a change of franchise it would still be the exact same staff dealing with things from the exact same office, with the exact same filing cabinet and records?

 

[Fare-Cop]

I especially don't appreciate being turned into a criminal because of errors by rail staff.

If you can show evidence that this was an error by rail staff, you do not have a problem and should win your appeal

In my opinion, for what it's worth, if the TOC can show that there was no error by rail staff and you did not present a valid ticket, you might be well advised to take the opportunity to deal with it by the administrative option that they have allowed.

You don't have to pay-up of course, as others have pointed out any 'penalty' element of a payment notice of this type has no legal basis and you are free to allow the TOC to issue a summons to Court and then argue your case by pleading 'not guilty' if they do so.

If you pay this first notice, and if you are found without a valid ticket in future the same case assessment process will apply. The TOC should only immediately proceed to prosecution on the basis that they have previously given you a warning if there is clear evidence of an offence on the subsequent occasion.