Is a GN Timetable actually needed?

[Downthelane]

Given the general consternation regarding the new GN timetable can I ask the question what is the actual benefit of a complete re-write before 24TPH can be achieved (to provide all the benefits of the core)?

If on May 21st we just rolled over the timetable as it currently works with 700's being used more widely would anyone object?

What is actually gained by the May 2018 change other than thousands more unhappy customers?

Do GTR financially benefit by these changes or do they stand to lose more once things fall apart?

It just seems a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[JonathanH]

Given the general consternation regarding the new GN timetable can I ask the question what is the actual benefit of a complete re-write before 24TPH can be achieved (to provide all the benefits of the core)?

If on May 21st we just rolled over the timetable as it currently works with 700's being used more widely would anyone object?

What is actually gained by the May 2018 change other than thousands more unhappy customers?

Do GTR financially benefit by these changes or do they stand to lose more once things fall apart?

It just seems a disaster waiting to happen.

Kings Cross doesn't have the capacity for the number of 12-car trains that will be running.

 

[Failed Unit]

Probably not as the VTEC timetable is staying the same anyway. But then if we don’t have the new timetable then don’t bother with the 700s either at least we get seats!

Considering the GN punctuality is at an all time low. As I have said before. This timetable will set records. Will then get below 20% of trains on time? Although many of the problems are down to GTR cutting maintenance on trains going off lease. The 313s are a disappointment at the moment in terms of failed units.

 

[AM9]

Given the general consternation regarding the new GN timetable can I ask the question what is the actual benefit of a complete re-write before 24TPH can be achieved (to provide all the benefits of the core)?

If on May 21st we just rolled over the timetable as it currently works with 700's being used more widely would anyone object?

What is actually gained by the May 2018 change other than thousands more unhappy customers?

Do GTR financially benefit by these changes or do they stand to lose more once things fall apart?

It just seems a disaster waiting to happen.

So would you advocate doing nothing until 24tph starts and then try to bed in a whole new timetable? I can just imagine the howl of protests that NR/GTR didn't take any precautions before launching one of the largest operational changes on the modern railway. Better that various aspects of the TL/EC service integration be checked out and the timetables tweaked before maximum core frequencies are needed.

 

[Ianno87]

One of the benefits/points of the May 2018 is the introduction of a high frequency London Bridge<>St Pancras service, in addition to those existing services through Thameslink from Catford and the Wimbledon Loop.

All those trains need somewhere to go (the MML can only take so many), which means plugging in the ECML, which means a timetable recast.

I'm also intrugued to see where this "general consternation" is, aside from a few posts on this forum...

 

[Hadders]

There's clearly a benefit at Off Peak times and weekends. The situation in the peaks appears to be little or no benefit to many stations.

I suspect he existing timetable could be run with the 700s (remember that most of them are 8-car not 12).

 

[Downthelane]

One of the benefits/points of the May 2018 is the introduction of a high frequency London Bridge<>St Pancras service, in addition to those existing services through Thameslink from Catford and the Wimbledon Loop.

All those trains need somewhere to go (the MML can only take so many), which means plugging in the ECML, which means a timetable recast.

I'm also intrugued to see where this "general consternation" is, aside from a few posts on this forum...

A 'few'?

There are very few winners and most lose capacity and have increased journey times.

Many more qualified than me to give the examples!

 

[bramling]

Probably not as the VTEC timetable is staying the same anyway. But then if we don’t have the new timetable then don’t bother with the 700s either at least we get seats!

Considering the GN punctuality is at an all time low. As I have said before. This timetable will set records. Will then get below 20% of trains on time? Although many of the problems are down to GTR cutting maintenance on trains going off lease. The 313s are a disappointment at the moment in terms of failed units.

I wonder if the 313s are now being worked too hard. Over the last few years there’s been lots more 6-car working, plus things like more evening services.

Going back to the 90s it was 6 cars basically only in the peaks, and there was even a period under WAGN when everything at weekends was covered by 317s. Since December it’s now solid 6 cars apart from one diagram M-F (Sundays I’m not sure about).

So it’s a double hit - more mileage and less maintenance time - for the oldest fleet in Britain bar the 38 stock. And it’s all demanding suburban work too.

One wonders if this may well be the most intensive timetable the GN 313s have ever worked?

 

[bramling]

I'm also intrugued to see where this "general consternation" is, aside from a few posts on this forum...

People talk! Both when using the railway and among colleagues at work.

However, I do think many GN users are actually completely unaware of what is to come in May. There’s very little to advertise things to the average punter who just turns up at the station and expects to catch a train to London like they have done for years.

As an aside, perhaps I’m biased from having spent a few years working in St Albans two decades ago, however I’d say Thameslink has a pretty toxic reputation in Hertfordshire.

 

[Downthelane]

Would an admin be able to insert the word "new" into the subject line of this thread as I missed a critical word?!

My apologies.

 

[Failed Unit]

Would an admin be able to insert the word "new" into the subject line of this thread as I missed a critical word?!

My apologies.

Considering how bad the service is at the moment you were right in the first place.

 

[Failed Unit]

I wonder if the 313s are now being worked too hard. Over the last few years there’s been lots more 6-car working, plus things like more evening services.

Going back to the 90s it was 6 cars basically only in the peaks, and there was even a period under WAGN when everything at weekends was covered by 317s. Since December it’s now solid 6 cars apart from one diagram M-F (Sundays I’m not sure about).

So it’s a double hit - more mileage and less maintenance time - for the oldest fleet in Britain bar the 38 stock. And it’s all demanding suburban work too.

One wonders if this may well be the most intensive timetable the GN 313s have ever worked?

Maybe. But when you have a look at the modern railways most reliable train features every January it is never at the bottom either. I suspect preventative maintenance is over now they have only 18 months less. Don’t to absolute minimum and replace a part when it fails rather than say every 2000 hours as we know they typically fail at 2200. (Or however the railway measure parts usage)

 

[swt_passenger]

One of the benefits/points of the May 2018 is the introduction of a high frequency London Bridge<>St Pancras service, in addition to those existing services through Thameslink from Catford and the Wimbledon Loop...

Yes agree. Maybe the OP thinks there’s an easy way of altering timetables all over the SN, SE, MML networks in May but doing the ECML/GN bit separately a lot later. Seems a very narrow view of timetabling issues, it’s obviously a key milestone for NR allowing for 18 months worth of gradual alterations.

 

[swt_passenger]

Would an admin be able to insert the word "new" into the subject line of this thread as I missed a critical word?!

My apologies.

You may not already be aware, but as the person who started a thread, you can edit the title yourself. The new forum software has changed it, there’s now a link on the right above post #1, that only the thread author sees - “thread tools”.