Is 4G already being switched off in some areas?

[AY1975]

Following on from my earlier thread on options for people who don't want a smartphone after 2G is switched off at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...a-smartphone-after-2g-is-switched-off.248149/ I recently found myself in an area where I couldn't get a 4G signal on my 4G smartphone (which is four years old and therefore pre-dates 5G), although I could get a 2G signal (at least I presume it was 2G because I could call and text but not access the internet), and I was with my colleague who has an iPhone which worked OK there.

Because of this, I presumed that meant that 4G was down in that area at that moment but 5G was working OK, but I was in the same area a few weeks later and still found I could get 2G but no 4G. When I tried to access 3G or 4G mobile data, I got a letter E.

AIUI 3G is to be switched off by the end of 2024, with 2G following in about ten years' time, and eventually 4G as well but not for a very long time. But I wondered if 4G was already being switched off in some areas (maybe in areas with younger populations and therefore a high concentration of 5G phones) to try to force everyone to get a 5G phone even if they already have a perfectly good 4G phone. But of course even in areas with younger populations there will be elderly people who can just about work out how to do the basics with a smartphone but couldn't cope with having to get a new one every year or every two years and having to learn how it works differently from their previous phone.

 

[Energy]

There are some 5G only towers. AFAIK there are no plans to turn of 4G yet.

 

[swt_passenger]

There are some 5G only towers. AFAIK there are enough plans to turn of 4G yet.

“Enough plans”? Or no plans?

 

[Energy]

“Enough plans”? Or no plans?

No plans

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's 3G that's being turned off at the moment.

 

[dosxuk]

4G coverage is far from universal.

 

[swt_passenger]

No plans

Might that have been a new record for auto correct failure?

 

[ChrisC]

I presume that in locations which haven't currently got 4G coverage that there will be no coverage once 3G is turned off. Mobile coverage is a bit weak where I live but at at home I can usually get 4G but it does occasionally drop to 3G. No problems because I use wifi when at home. In the centre of the village there’s rarely 4G coverage and when I’m waiting at the bus stop I really struggle to track whether the bus is coming using slow 3G slow speeds. I just presume that when 3G is turned off I won’t get a signal at the bus stop. The centre of the village is down in a bit of a dip with many surrounding large trees.

 

[Energy]

Might that have been a new record for auto correct failure?

Possibly, I think I put "ar eno" which got corrected to "are enough"

It's 3G that's being turned off at the moment.

Slowly.

 

[adc82140]

There are some 3G only devices which are becoming problematic. A voluntary organisation I work with uses Sumup 3g for taking card payments. There is now much window waving to get payments through.

 

[Crossover]

I presume that in locations which haven't currently got 4G coverage that there will be no coverage once 3G is turned off. Mobile coverage is a bit weak where I live but at at home I can usually get 4G but it does occasionally drop to 3G. No problems because I use wifi when at home. In the centre of the village there’s rarely 4G coverage and when I’m waiting at the bus stop I really struggle to track whether the bus is coming using slow 3G slow speeds. I just presume that when 3G is turned off I won’t get a signal at the bus stop. The centre of the village is down in a bit of a dip with many surrounding large trees.

In theory, areas that only have 3G will be upgraded to 5G first - at least that was the jist of what I took away from a Vodafone seminar I was at a few months ago

 

[Energy]

There are some 3G only devices which are becoming problematic. A voluntary organisation I work with uses Sumup 3g for taking card payments. There is now much window waving to get payments through.

They should support at least 2G which is not being turned off.

 

[GS250]

Isn't 2-2.5G the 'Edge' network that gives the 'E' symbol next to your connection?

Always found data transfer to be near non existent went in that mode.

 

[Energy]

Isn't 2-2.5G the 'Edge' network that gives the 'E' symbol next to your connection?

Always found data transfer to be near non existent went in that mode.

E is for Enhanced GPRS (GPRS is 2G). You can get about 400kb/s, its barely enough for light websites but will be plenty for smart meters, card machines etc.

 

[Noddy]

Following on from my earlier thread on options for people who don't want a smartphone after 2G is switched off at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...a-smartphone-after-2g-is-switched-off.248149/ I recently found myself in an area where I couldn't get a 4G signal on my 4G smartphone (which is four years old and therefore pre-dates 5G), although I could get a 2G signal (at least I presume it was 2G because I could call and text but not access the internet), and I was with my colleague who has an iPhone which worked OK there.

Because of this, I presumed that meant that 4G was down in that area at that moment but 5G was working OK, but I was in the same area a few weeks later and still found I could get 2G but no 4G. When I tried to access 3G or 4G mobile data, I got a letter E.

AIUI 3G is to be switched off by the end of 2024, with 2G following in about ten years' time, and eventually 4G as well but not for a very long time. But I wondered if 4G was already being switched off in some areas (maybe in areas with younger populations and therefore a high concentration of 5G phones) to try to force everyone to get a 5G phone even if they already have a perfectly good 4G phone. But of course even in areas with younger populations there will be elderly people who can just about work out how to do the basics with a smartphone but couldn't cope with having to get a new one every year or every two years and having to learn how it works differently from their previous phone.

My bold: Do you mean your colleagues iPhone received 4G?

There are different frequencies of 4G in operation on different networks and depending on the age of your phone’s 4G chip it may not be able to access them all.

4G and 5G frequency bands in the UK

Each network uses a different bands and they also differ based on the type of network (2G, 3G and 4G). Check the frequencies all UK networks use in one place.

www.4g.co.uk

 

[ChrisC]

In theory, areas that only have 3G will be upgraded to 5G first - at least that was the jist of what I took away from a Vodafone seminar I was at a few months ago

I can’t see that happening anytime soon in an area that already generally has quite good 4G coverage but just some parts of a village only has 3G because it is slightly lower down a hill.

 

[75A]

There's still some 3G over in the Emerald Isle, but surprisingly a fair bit of 5.

 

[chipbury]

Where we are they’ve upgraded a mast to 5G (from 4G) which means I can no longer get enough bandwidth to use the Internet.
EE technical say this is because 5G does not travel/penetrate as far as 4G.
So not much use in rural areas with fewer masts.

 

[AY1975]

My bold: Do you mean your colleagues iPhone received 4G?

No, I mean my colleague's iPhone received 5G.

 

[507020]

There are some 5G only towers. AFAIK there are no plans to turn of 4G yet.

Of these, some are new installations and others are conversions from former 3G/4G masts. Any 4G masts that have been converted to 5G only, while these will not be in the majority, will leave their catchment with no 4G coverage, but full 5G.

 

[Noddy]

No, I mean my colleague's iPhone received 5G.

Ah, gotcha. Do you know if the area you were in ever had 4G? Plenty of areas didn’t. As others have said there’s no official turn off for 4G yet, but it is possible that in certain limited circumstances a phone company might reconfigure its network reducing coverage in order to improve its overall system performance. But this is unusual.

 

[AY1975]

Ah, gotcha. Do you know if the area you were in ever had 4G? Plenty of areas didn’t. As others have said there’s no official turn off for 4G yet, but it is possible that in certain limited circumstances a phone company might reconfigure its network reducing coverage in order to improve its overall system performance. But this is unusual.

Yes, the area in question is a densely populated urban area, and an inner city area at that. I am fairly sure that it had 4G until recently, as my phone worked there OK earlier this year, so I am guessing that it's either (a) a coincidence that 4G was down in that area the last two times I was there, (b) a prolonged 4G outage in that area lasting several weeks (maybe while the network in that area is being upgraded), (c) a former 3G/4G mast covering the area that has recently been converted to 5G only, leaving that area with 5G but no 3G or 4G coverage as suggested in entry #20 above, or (d) the age of my phone's 4G chip as per entry #15.

 

[sor]

4G is far from being turned off, coverage is still being expanded and with the closure of 3G it becomes the "basic" technology that the mobile networks expect everyone to be able to use. A small amount of 2G will remain (except on 3, which never had a 2G network) for the weird and wonderful use cases as well as people who still use old dumb phones.

As the UK does not yet really use what's called "5G standalone" then you essentially need 5G and 4G coverage to overlap in order for the former to work. Vodafone has some small trial areas and it is open to those on expensive plans, but it's a very long way away from being universal.

I don't think the age of the phone is a major factor, unlike some countries we didn't mess around with frequency bands too much, so unless you have a very early 4G iPhone you should be able to access the entire 4G network.

What *can* be a factor is that many older Android phones have issues with what's called "Voice over LTE" or VoLTE or sometimes just called 4G calling. It requires the phone to be configured for each network it is compatible with and Google made a huge mess out of it, in a way that Apple completely avoided. If your phone does not support this (check in the menus, or even just make a call and see if it still says 4G at the top), you may be prevented from using some parts of the 4G network.

There are also some "virtual" networks (those who use the infrastructure of one of the big four) that still do not support VoLTE on any device, for example Plusnet Mobile (EE) or Virgin Mobile (O2, but requires you to phone up to get it enabled so you probably don't have it) or Tesco Mobile/Giffgaff (also O2)

 

[75A]

Interesting, thank you.

 

[21C101]

South of Elstree Tunnel used to be a good coverage area but is now appalling on a 4g phone so I suspect some removal is going on. Possibly of 3g

 

[AY1975]

There are also some "virtual" networks (those who use the infrastructure of one of the big four) that still do not support VoLTE on any device, for example Plusnet Mobile (EE) or Virgin Mobile (O2, but requires you to phone up to get it enabled so you probably don't have it) or Tesco Mobile/Giffgaff (also O2)

I'm currently with The Phone Co-op, which uses the EE network, so that could explain why I had problems recently. I was in the same area a couple of weeks ago and my phone worked OK, though.

 

[nw1]

E is for Enhanced GPRS (GPRS is 2G). You can get about 400kb/s, its barely enough for light websites but will be plenty for smart meters, card machines etc.

I remember seeing 'E' and didn't understand what it meant, but recognised that using internet was basically impossible when it was there. Haven't seen it for a few years now. I thought of it as 'Excruciatingly Slow'.

The other symbols I recognise are 'G' (3G presumably) and '4G'.

 

[sor]

I'm currently with The Phone Co-op, which uses the EE network, so that could explain why I had problems recently. I was in the same area a couple of weeks ago and my phone worked OK, though.

Their website doesn't explain if they support 4G calling / VoLTE or not, so no idea if they should. Might be worth checking in your phone's settings to see if it is enabled anyway.

I remember seeing 'E' and didn't understand what it meant, but recognised that using internet was basically impossible when it was there. Haven't seen it for a few years now. I thought of it as 'Excruciatingly Slow'.

The other symbols I recognise are 'G' (3G presumably) and '4G'.

EDGE in the UK was largely rushed out at the time of the original iPhone, because Apple in their infinite wisdom did not include 3G in the first one. As you say I don't remember it being terribly useful.

 

[skyhigh]

The other symbols I recognise are 'G' (3G presumably)

G normally stands for GPRS, ie. the previous and slower standard of Edge/Enhanced GPRS (E)

 

[JamesT]

G normally stands for GPRS, ie. the previous and slower standard of Edge/Enhanced GPRS (E)

GPRS occasionally is called ‘2.5G’ as it was adding data transfer on top of the 2G system. Transfer rates in the 10s of kilobits, comparable to dialup. Edge can get up to the 100s of kilobits, ie early ADSL. (Remember when 512k was an impressive home connection?)