Irish Railways

[Dai.]

Hello gang!

I was looking at a brilliant fotopic linked down in the photography section Railscene Ireland and I am visiting ireland very soon, I was just having a think and I realised I know nothing about the rail scene in ireland, but the looks of it they have nice trains but I do have some questions.

Who are the TOC/FOC's in Ireland? are they the same as here or do they have different ones? do they have the same trains as us or completely different ones? and when I go over, where are the best places to see some trains?

Also before I end the post What is the top speed?! let's be fair, ireland isn't big compared to the UK. I was wondering if this affected the top speed of the line or not.

Cheers for your time,

Dai.

 

[monkey]

^^I think irish rail is still under govnernment control, thus all run through iarnród éireann...

 

[fgwrich]

Who are the TOC/FOC's in Ireland? are they the same as here or do they have different ones? do they have the same trains as us or completely different ones? and when I go over, where are the best places to see some trains?.

Ill deal with this one...

The only TOC/FOC over there is state run Iarnród Éireann...

As for what they use, Well,Branding is split into Intercity, Enterprise,Commuter & DART brandings...

Intercity
GM 201 Class,CAF built MK4's & DVT - NO relation out our Mk4's on Dublin to Cork Services,
22000 Class Intercity Railcars on Sligo,Galway,Tralee routes, built by Rotem.

Commuter
2600 Class - Tokyo Car Corporation built
2700 / 2750 Class - GEC Alsthom built
2800 Class - Tokyo Car Corporation built
29000 Class - Built by Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles...CAF

And DART / Dublin Area Rapid Transit
8100 Class - Built by GEC and LHB (Linke-Hofmann-Busch)
8200 Class - Another Quility Unit built by Alsthom...
And Finnaly 8500, 8510 and 8520 classes, built again by Tokyo Car Corporation of Japan

Think Thisll Help...
http://www.irishrail.ie/fleet_information/intercity_fleet.asp

As for freight, Well, thats also run by state owned Irish Rail ( Córas Iompair Éireann), But i woudnt bother getting your hopes up on seeing any, as thanks to IE, theres bareley any...

But IE's Loco's are all GM built, and are:
The 071 Class
The 141 Class
The 181 Class
And the 201 Class


Hope your not going in Via Fishgaurd though, as its worked through by 2800 class railcars...But will fortunatly transfer to 22000 operation eventually...

As for the loco's, They are both Frieght and passenger loco's, but unlike us are not ETH Fitted, hence why IE Loco hauled trains have the Generator car and for the enterprise & Intercity services, a specially built DVT with built in Generator...

Also before I end the post What is the top speed?! let's be fair, ireland isn't big compared to the UK. I was wondering if this affected the top speed of the line or not.

Dai.

The maximum speed of the intercity trains on the Irish rail network is 100mph...


Im due to fly out to ireland on the 1st...Was of course for the railtour with the 071's from Portrush to Tralee, but thanks to the bridge at malahide being washed away, It was canned...As for the bridge at Malahide, Thats on the Main - Dublin -Drogheda- Belfast Enterprise route, so thats currently in 2 parts...

rich

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iarnrod_Eireann

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/travel_alerts.asp?action=view&news_id=501

[/QUOTE]There is significant disruption to Northern commuter, and Belfast Enterprise services due to a serious incident in which a 20 metre section of the viaduct has given way across Broadmeadow estuary, North of Malahide Station on Friday the 21st of August.

Due to the severe damage to the viaduct, we regret to inform customers that the line across the estuary will not reopen until late November 2009, with resulting disruption continuing.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for the severe inconvenience caused.

The following service arrangements will be in operation

Intercity Enterprise Services: A revised train services will operate in both directions between Belfast and Drogheda with a direct bus connection between Drogheda and Dublin Connolly from Sunday the 6th of September onwards.

Click here to view the Enterprise Timetable

Northern Commuter – Dundalk/Drogheda to Donabate Rail Services: Iarnród Éireann has enhanced it's train service between Dundalk - Skerries with many extended services now operating to Donabate.

Click here to view Northern Commuter Timetable

DART/Commuter Services: Additional capacity has been added to services. Furthermore, the following additional services will operate between Connolly/Pearse and Malahide:

Extra Services to and from Malahide (Mon - Fri only)

Time Origin Destination
07:30 Malahide Dublin Pearse
07:57 Malahide Dublin Connolly
08:37 Malahide Dublin Pearse
09:10 Malahide Dublin Connolly
10:10 Malahide Dublin Connolly
11:05 Malahide Dublin Pearse
12:33 Malahide Dublin Pearse
14:11 Malahide Dublin Pearse
15:20
16:33
Malahide
Malahide Dublin Pearse
Dublin Pearse

09:40
10:35
12:00 Dublin Connolly
Dublin Connolly
Dublin Pearse
Malahide
Malahide
Malahide
13:15 Dublin Pearse Malahide
14:45 Dublin Pearse Malahide
15:42 Dublin Pearse Malahide
16:16 Dublin Pearse Malahide
17:13 Dublin Pearse Malahide
17:50 Dublin Pearse Malahide [/QUOTE]

 

[Dai.]

thank you so much fgwrich, I was just wondering because I'd like to go trainspotting when I'm over there and yeah I saw abotu the bridge in 'The Railway Magazine' not good..

 

[Thewanderer]

Hi Dai.

A shamless plug first: my fotopic site is at http://thewanderersirishrailphotos.fotopic.net/

If your coming over for a few days I would recommend the Kildare - Portarlington corridor for Freight. If you want to pm me when your over I'll try and put together some times for you.

FGWRich has fairly much covered the fleet (glad to see somebody uses the fleet section!)
The Wanderer.

 

[fgwrich]

Hi Dai.

A shamless plug first: my fotopic site is at http://thewanderersirishrailphotos.fotopic.net/

If your coming over for a few days I would recommend the Kildare - Portarlington corridor for Freight. If you want to pm me when your over I'll try and put together some times for you.

FGWRich has fairly much covered the fleet (glad to see somebody uses the fleet section!)
The Wanderer.

No problems...Not bad coming from someone who's yet to actually go to ireland but ill be over there from the 1st till the 4th... As for the bridge just north of Malahide, Thanks to that, the railtour i was ment to be with the 071 Class's on is now cancled But Hey Ho...therell be another one sooner or later...

rich

 

[merlodlliw]

Hello gang!

I was looking at a brilliant fotopic linked down in the photography section Railscene Ireland and I am visiting ireland very soon, I was just having a think and I realised I know nothing about the rail scene in ireland, but the looks of it they have nice trains but I do have some questions.

Who are the TOC/FOC's in Ireland? are they the same as here or do they have different ones? do they have the same trains as us or completely different ones? and when I go over, where are the best places to see some trains?

Also before I end the post What is the top speed?! let's be fair, ireland isn't big compared to the UK. I was wondering if this affected the top speed of the line or not.

Cheers for your time,

Dai.

I go over very often, check out the Irish Rail web site for all train times.the main difference you may notice is wide guage .

CIE the state transport system was split into three.
1.IR Irish Rail
2.Bus Eireanne
3.Dublin Bus..


In the North its NI Railways again wide guage, the enterprise express between Belfast & Dublin uses alternate stock, both GM hauled
both North & South railways are state owned, but have there own profit centres.

 

[jamesontheroad]

In the North its NI Railways again wide guage, the enterprise express between Belfast & Dublin uses alternate stock, both GM hauled both North & South railways are state owned, but have there own profit centres.

If you do get to go north (and it's a shame the Enterprise is currently disrupted by the Malahide Viaduct collapse) you'll get to see an often forgotten corner of state-owned railway operations in the UK. The De Dietrich coaches used on the Enterprise were a design derived from the Eurostar stock (without the bogies shared between carriages) so if you squint your eyes you can just about see a similarity. Around and about in NI, you'll find almost new NIR class 3000 series DMUs built by CAF. I believe CAF have pre-qualified for the forthcoming DMU order for various UK TOCs, so perhaps these vehicles will give you a hint of what might be coming to Northern, First Great Western etc in the next few decades. A follow-on order of additional NIR class 4000 series DMUs will be coming in the next few years.

A small fleet of NIR 450 class DMUs still operates on the Belfast Central / Larne line. See Wikipedia for a reasonable explanation of their strange origins (new mk. 3 era bodyshells on ex-mk. 1 underframes, adapted to Irish guage). They are hugely noisy and not very reliable, but a dream if you love thumpers. Additionally, a very small fleet of refurbished slam door NIR Class 80 thumpers are still around providing additional capacity, although now reformed from three-car units with one motor unit to four car trains with a motor unit at each end.

There is additionally one LCHS set, formed of an NIR Class 111 loco and a rake of former Gatwick Express mk. 2s, adapted for Irish Gauge. Currently out of service for the quieter summer months, these will hopefully re-enter service later this month on a rush hour Portadown / Belfast diagram, perhaps with the long awaited DVT that was acquired several years ago to allow the set to be used without the loco having to run around.

With the winter timetable change you can expect a pretty significant cut in journey times between Belfast and L'derry... the first phase of an impressive track refurbishment programme has eliminated a number of 'wet spots' and speed restrictions between Ballymena and Coleraine, and more work is planned for the rest of that line so that maybe (just maybe) one day the train can connect those two beautiful cities faster than the Ulsterbus Goldline route!

 

[Csalem]

Hello gang!

I was looking at a brilliant fotopic linked down in the photography section Railscene Ireland

Thank you! (As usual I'm very slow at replying to these things.)

 

[4SRKT]

You really do need to head to Northern Ireland for the DEMUs (see my avatar). These loveable English Electric-engined rattletraps are the last first generation diesels still in regular scheduled passenger use anywhere in the UK, except the handful of Valenta-engined HSTs. If you're really lucky you'll be able to get on one of the older 80 class sets, and then you can lean out of the windows.

You can get a Freedom of Northern Ireland day ticket for about £15 (also covers all buses, which are also state owned through the transport holding company Translink - the rump of the Ulster Transport Authority, Northern Ireland's equivalent to the British Transport Commission on nationalisation after the war), and you can easily cover the whole network in a day if you do it like this:

Belfast Central - Newry on the mid-morning Dublin train (GM propelled).
Newry - Portadown (GM hauled)
Portadown - Bangor (takes in the triangle serving Belfast Great Victoria Street terminus)
Bangor - Belfast Central
Belfast Central - Larne Harbour (DEMU!)
Larne Harbour - Whiteabbey (DEMU again)
Whiteabbey - Portrush on the evening peak time extra
Portrush - Coleraine
Coleraine - [London]Derry
L'derry - Belfast Central or Great Victoria Street (pretty late back).

Unless stated all trains will be operated by the frankly odious new CAF sets (although maybe you like modern traction?). There is a very slim chance that you could get lucky on Whiteabbey - Portrush - Coleraine if they're using that service to swap the Portrush branch DEMU.

The Republic until recently used to be enthusiast heaven, with most trains loco hauled and a lot of branch lines using steam heated stock. They've modernised incredibly fast though, with only a handful of services off the main Cork and Belfast lines loco hauled. Many, many happy days spent rattling around all over being hauled by GMs large and small in an eclectic mix of stock ranging from wooden bodied stuff to Mk IIIs.

I'm planning a trip to Northern Ireland next year to get as much DEMU action as possible before it's too late. Does anyone have any gen on whether the Coleraine - Portrush shuttle is still being operated by a 450 class?

 

[jamesontheroad]

I'm planning a trip to Northern Ireland next year to get as much DEMU action as possible before it's too late. Does anyone have any gen on whether the Coleraine - Portrush shuttle is still being operated by a 450 class?

I don't know how complete the information is, but the latest posts on this thread of the IRN Forums might be a good place to start (and to ask):


http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/571/t/Class-450-DEMU-S-ON-Northern-Ireland-Railways.html

 

[Csalem]

As someone posted on the above mentioned forum today, the 80 class is currently in service:
http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/1123?page=7

 

[Gordy712]

You really do need to head to Northern Ireland for the DEMUs (see my avatar). These loveable English Electric-engined rattletraps are the last first generation diesels still in regular scheduled passenger use anywhere in the UK, except the handful of Valenta-engined HSTs. If you're really lucky you'll be able to get on one of the older 80 class sets, and then you can lean out of the windows.

You can get a Freedom of Northern Ireland day ticket for about £15 (also covers all buses, which are also state owned through the transport holding company Translink - the rump of the Ulster Transport Authority, Northern Ireland's equivalent to the British Transport Commission on nationalisation after the war), and you can easily cover the whole network in a day if you do it like this:

Belfast Central - Newry on the mid-morning Dublin train (GM propelled).
Newry - Portadown (GM hauled)
Portadown - Bangor (takes in the triangle serving Belfast Great Victoria Street terminus)
Bangor - Belfast Central
Belfast Central - Larne Harbour (DEMU!)
Larne Harbour - Whiteabbey (DEMU again)
Whiteabbey - Portrush on the evening peak time extra
Portrush - Coleraine
Coleraine - [London]Derry
L'derry - Belfast Central or Great Victoria Street (pretty late back).

Unless stated all trains will be operated by the frankly odious new CAF sets (although maybe you like modern traction?). There is a very slim chance that you could get lucky on Whiteabbey - Portrush - Coleraine if they're using that service to swap the Portrush branch DEMU.

The Republic until recently used to be enthusiast heaven, with most trains loco hauled and a lot of branch lines using steam heated stock. They've modernised incredibly fast though, with only a handful of services off the main Cork and Belfast lines loco hauled. Many, many happy days spent rattling around all over being hauled by GMs large and small in an eclectic mix of stock ranging from wooden bodied stuff to Mk IIIs.

I'm planning a trip to Northern Ireland next year to get as much DEMU action as possible before it's too late. Does anyone have any gen on whether the Coleraine - Portrush shuttle is still being operated by a 450 class?

You can find pics of NIR rolling stock on the following link.

http://northernirelandtransportphotos.fotopic.net/

 

[4SRKT]

My mate and I have got our plans in place for DEMU bashing on 5th November. Will be staying in some sort of borderline-doss house in Belfast and getting up early for the morning 80 class diagram. Apparently it works one out and back to Whitehead, and one to Larne in the morning, before going back to the depot and working another 2 round trips in the evening. Seems sensible because it puts a four car set onto the key arrivals and departures at Belfast in both peaks, while keeping an expensive to operate power-twin set off the rails for most of the day. We've got to fly home at 18:30, but by getting up early we'll get both AM round trips, before 3 more round trips with 450 class sets (one to Carrickfergus only). We'll be able to experience one of the hideous new CAF sets on the five minute journey from Belfast to Sydenham for the airport, and be able to shed a tear over the English Electric glory that is about to pass.

All GB based fans of classic diesel traction must beat a hasty path to Northern Ireland as soon as possible, before it's too late and the only option is regret. Check this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv7nw5M7twQ&feature=related

My Lordz!

 

[Thewanderer]

hideous new CAF sets

Hideous? I bet a normal passenger would rather a CAF set over an 80 or 450 any day of the week.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Hideous? I bet a normal passenger would rather a CAF set over an 80 or 450 any day of the week.

I'm just such a normal passenger (I commute weekly from Glasgow to Belfast via Prestwick and City Airport... if it's a £0.01 Ryanair flight then door to door it costs me £4.31!) and I'm afraid to inform 4SRKT that he's in the minority. Passenger railways exist to move people around, not entertain enthusiasts. The class 80s and 450s are responsible for decades of miserable and disrupted travel, and have contributed to a corner of Europe with a disproportionately high dependence on the motor car. The C3Ks are a vital and excellent part of Northern Ireland's public transport renaissance, gradually getting people out of their cars and around Ulster in more comfort and at more speed that the older DEMUs could ever manage.

By the way, I'll wager a pint of the black stuff that your early morning class 80 excursion will be thwarted by another breakdown
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My mate and I have got our plans in place for DEMU bashing on 5th November. Will be staying in some sort of borderline-doss house in Belfast and getting up early for the morning 80 class diagram.

PS. If you want a clean bed in a great hostel, the HINI Hostel just off Bradbury Place is great value (~ £10 a night) and three minutes walk from Botanic station and ten minutes walk from Great Victoria Street.

 

[4SRKT]

Hideous? I bet a normal passenger would rather a CAF set over an 80 or 450 any day of the week.

I bet he would, but then I'm not a normal!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm afraid to inform 4SRKT that he's in the minority. Passenger railways exist to move people around, not entertain enthusiasts.

Erm, yes. I'm sort of aware of this.

The class 80s and 450s are responsible for decades of miserable and disrupted travel, and have contributed to a corner of Europe with a disproportionately high dependence on the motor car.

You don't think the car dependence in Northern Ireland has anything to do with the UTA closing down nearly all the lines then? Or that until 1976 three lines into Belfast terminated in three different stations? I spent a lot of time commuting on NIR DEMUs during the troubles and am only too aware of the shortcomings of NIR at that time (Belfast York Road station was truly squalid, beyond even Wakefield Kirkgate, and I definitely feel no nostalgia whatever for it!). This is a nostalgia trip for an almost gone piece of first generation diesel traction, that's all, and I'm surprised that you appear to wish me ill will for it. I'll be enjoying it all the same (breakdowns notwithstanding!), so Cheers!

 

[jamesontheroad]

I would never wish you or anyone else ill for your passion, although I do offer my sympathies.

I also have a pet theory that the love of the car in NI was helped by the sense of personal security and personal space that public transport didn't offer during the darker days of the troubles. Walking into town on the Malone Road of a weekday morning it depresses me at how many people still expect to be able to drive into the centre of the city and park within walking distance of their workplace. The Forum for an Alternative Belfast recently demonstrated in a public talk that there is, within the confine's of Belfast's city centre core, enough vacant brownfield land (mostly used for surface car parking) with which to build an entire second Belfast. I.e. half the surface area of Belfast city centre remains unbuilt upon.

But I digress

 

[4SRKT]

I would never wish you or anyone else ill for your passion, although I do offer my sympathies.

I also have a pet theory that the love of the car in NI was helped by the sense of personal security and personal space that public transport didn't offer during the darker days of the troubles. Walking into town on the Malone Road of a weekday morning it depresses me at how many people still expect to be able to drive into the centre of the city and park within walking distance of their workplace. The Forum for an Alternative Belfast recently demonstrated in a public talk that there is, within the confine's of Belfast's city centre core, enough vacant brownfield land (mostly used for surface car parking) with which to build an entire second Belfast. I.e. half the surface area of Belfast city centre remains unbuilt upon.

But I digress

I'm shuddering at the idea of 'an entire second Belfast'. Frankly, one is more than enough!

I'm sure you're right about a desire for personal security helping to make public transport (especially buses) less popular. However, I reckon partition itself did for a lot of railways. Take the GNR route to Derry, no slower than the NCC route, and serving Dungannon, Omagh and Strabane en route, as well as providing much better Dublin --> Derry connections at Portadown. Also came into Great Victoria Street station instead of the squalid York Road, whose location even now isn't atrractive, but during the troubles it was downright dangerous to walk alone in that part of Belfast. However, it crossed the border twice between Strabane and Derry. Likewise, the route from Belfast to Enniskillen crossed into County Monaghan and back west of Armagh. This criss-crossing the border made the railways impossible once the GNRB (the first true 'Cross-Border Body'?) was abolished in 1958 and the lines split between the UTA and CIE (who as railway butchers were hardly much better than the UTA).

Obviously I agree that from the public's perspective, the CAFs are an improvement on the DEMUs. However, the DEMUs are the last first generation diesel passenger trains still operating anywhere in the UK (except the handful of Valenta engined HSTs on Grand Central), and for this reason alone are worthy of as much attention as possible before it's too late.

How much longer am I going to have to be a 'gateline assistant'? That's a crap job title IMHO.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does anyone have any idea if NIR are going to recommence that morning loco hauled working from Portadown ever? Nice bit of Mk II stock with window-hanging potential, behind an interesting loco; what's not to like?

 

[jamesontheroad]

Does anyone have any idea if NIR are going to recommence that morning loco hauled working from Portadown ever? Nice bit of Mk II stock with window-hanging potential, behind an interesting loco; what's not to like?

I thought the 'Gatwicks' were back in daily use, although now that I'm looking at the pocket Portadown/Bangor timetable I'm not so sure. They used to be withdrawn during July and August for the holiday season, but I can't work out from the timetable whether or not they're back in service. They used to work the 0750 from Portadown IIRC.

 

[4SRKT]

IThey used to work the 0750 from Portadown IIRC.

That's right, but that working's not in the online timetable either. There aren't any non-Enterprise workings shown going direct from Adelaide to City Hospital, so as I don't suppose anyway wants a GM running round at GVS in the height of the rush hour, I can only assume that the Gatwick set isn't running at all.

 

[jamesontheroad]

That's right, but that working's not in the online timetable either. There aren't any non-Enterprise workings shown going direct from Adelaide to City Hospital, so as I don't suppose anyway wants a GM running round at GVS in the height of the rush hour, I can only assume that the Gatwick set isn't running at all.

Or maybe the DBSO is in operation? I'm heading off to sunny-B in an hour or two. If I remember, I'll ask the station staff at Botanic when I get in.

 

[4SRKT]

Or maybe the DBSO is in operation? I'm heading off to sunny-B in an hour or two. If I remember, I'll ask the station staff at Botanic when I get in.

Is the DBSO in service? I'd heard it was an proposal, but didn't know it had actually been delivered.

Hehehe! I've become a CSA!

 

[4SRKT]

A great day today. The Larne line ran like clockwork. We got up early from the Youth Hostel and caught the 07:00 80 class from Great Victoria Street to Whitehead, back to Central, out to Larne and back to Central again. The discovery that my mate had left his passport at the hostel was greeted with some dismay, so we had to take a CAF to Botanic to retrieve it. Another CAF back to Central having lost half an hour's DEMU bashing time, and out to Carrickfergus with a 450 class for some lunch. Back into Central again (450), and out to Larne Harbour. Back as far as Whitehead where my mate bailed to take another set back to Larne Town. I stayed on the train to Downshire for a quick visit to my Grandma's, before rejoining my mate on the train he was on back from Larne to Central. A short but objectionable ride on a CAF to Sydenham to get to the airport was the last move. 161.5 miles of DEMU action!

Everything ran very smoothly (except the passport near-disaster), and apart from a bit of rain when we were on the 80 class (which was quite annoying as this was the only heads-out opportunity), the weather wasn't bad for the time of year.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Glad to hear your trip was a success...!

Everything ran very smoothly (except the passport near-disaster), and apart from a bit of rain when we were on the 80 class (which was quite annoying as this was the only heads-out opportunity), the weather wasn't bad for the time of year.

The great thing about the weather in Ireland is that if you don't like it, you only need to wait five minutes for it to change

 

[D6975]

As for the loco's, They are both Frieght and passenger loco's, but unlike us are not ETH Fitted, hence why IE Loco hauled trains have the Generator car and for the enterprise & Intercity services, a specially built DVT with built in Generator...

Not true
Class 201 locomotives are fitted with ETH.
Dayton-Phoenix alternator, model E7145, 438 kVA, 220/380VAC, 3-phase, 50 Hz
The Enterprise sets do not have generator cars, and therefore require a 201 loco for air con, heating etc to work.