Irish Rail no services due to strike today

[merlodlliw]

For those members who may be travelling in Ireland today & tomorrow,bad news due to strike action.

from the Irish rail website
Industrial action - 24th, 25th August; 7th, 8th Sept, 21st Sept. Includes refund info

21 August 2014

Services are not expected to operate on 24th & 25th August due to industrial action. Further industrial action is threatened for 7th and 8th September and 21st September.

Iarnród Éireann advises customers that, due to industrial action by NBRU and SIPTU, rail services are not expected to operate across Intercity, DART and Commuter routes on the following dates:

- Sunday 24th August

- Monday 25th August

Enterprise services will operate between Belfast and Newry only. Please note that rail tickets will not be valid on bus operators' services during industrial action.

For alternative travel options, please see Transport for Ireland.



Further industrial action is threatened for:

- Sunday 7th September

- Monday 8th September

- Sunday 21st September



Refund Arrangements

Online Bookings
Online bookings are currently suspended for all of the above dates. We will begin processing refunds for all customers who had booked to travel on the 24th or 25th August on Tuesday 27th August. Your money should then appear back on your card within 7-10 days of this date depending on how quickly your bank process this transaction.

Taxsaver Customers
In the event of threatened action proceeding, Customers who purchase their tickets through their company as part of the Taxsaver scheme can apply for a refund for the days that their travel plans were impacted by the Industrial Action. We would advise customers impacted on the 24th or 25th August to apply from Tuesday 26th onwards.

Taxsaver Refund

Customers who purchase at the station
Customers who purchase their tickets at the station who were impacted by the industrial action should collect a refund form at the station or download the form here and return to the relevant postal address outlined on the form.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for any inconvenience caused. Full service information will be updated as it becomes available.

In depth reasons here http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...ent-and-irish-rail-for-train-strike-1.1904909

 

[Bob Ames]

- Monday 8th September

Curiously, I tried to book a SailRail back to the UK for 08 Sep but it failed on reservations (that was 2.5 months ago and it still fails today). Although it seems like I've potentially dodged a bullet, some of my plans are going to be seriously hosed if this further action happens...

 

[F Great Eastern]

Annual passenger journeys on Irish Rail have dropped by 19% between 2007 and 2013, but during that time the average cost per staff member hasn't really changed at all despite a big drop in revenue., so something was always going to have to give, since the state simply doesn't have the money to give to the company that it did in the days when the country was awash with money.

No company is going to be able to sustain that kind of drop in revenue and passengers unless it makes serious changes to its cost base, and it's been stated many times that wages make up 60% of the companies costs so it is impossible for them to make enough cost savings without touching payroll. This dispute has been going on for 20 months and has been the subject of several sittings at the Labour Court, Labour Relations Committee who all agree savings must be made.

The average pay at Irish Rail is approx €56,000, and the staff at that end of the scale are being asked to take a pay cut of 1.7%, then there is a sliding scale of cuts that rises with each salary level, with the top tier being staff earning over €100,000 being asked to take a 6.1% pay cut. Three other unions have accepted the cuts, but SIPTU and the NBRU, primarily driver unions, have turned it down.

Irish Rail have issued a fuller statement here:
http://www.irishrail.ie/blog/post?a=560

 

[MidnightFlyer]

When I was bashing around Ireland last year I was amazed at how many small, intermediate stations were staffed, either so late in the day or indeed at all. Take somewhere like Balliansloe, which for Tues-Thurs is staffed for over 17 hours! You also have Nenagh, staffed from 0700-2015 six days a week, during which five trains call with a gap of six hours in the middle! On this side of the Irish Sea Ballinasloe would probably be open in the morning only, and Nenagh would have been destaffed decades ago.

Are such generous hours to do with the lack of on-train staff?

 

[F Great Eastern]

To be fair, that isn't representative of all of the network, parts of the network are unstaffed for large parts of the day, even some station on the DART line and in the Dublin area. Even places like Clontarf road, near a huge business park, are unstaffed even for afternoon peak.

On an Irish forum last week, I read that someone went to get a train from Malahide about 10pm and the building was locked up and there was no way to buy tickets since the machines were inside the locked up building, only with a little gate to access the platforms by. Thats just throwing revenue away.

Whilst efficiencies need to be made, honestly some Irish rail stations can be lonely places to be late at night with no staff or security presence and the lack of staff even at busy stations at peak hours on the DART line is really something that should be dealt with.

 

[455driver]

Very simplistic terms-

So Irish Railways spend millions modernising the system/trains and when the recession bites them on the Ar5e they expect the staff to pay for it!

 

[F Great Eastern]

Some would argue the problem with investment in the boom years was that too much was spent on new trains and more were ordered than required replacing rolling stock that still had years of life in it, when it should have been spent on the infrastructure.

Irish Rail have lost a number of passenger to coach options which are almost as fast, and in some case faster than the train, because the line speeds are pretty low in places compared to say the UK where the train would almost always beat a coach hands down.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Out of interest which service (e.g. DART, Dublin-Galway, Cork Metro etc) on the IE network is closest to being in the black?

 

[scotsman]

If the average pay is €56,000 - are we looking at an organisation with a bloated middle management, or one with top-tier paying themselves ridiculous salaries?

 

[Hornet]

If the average pay is €56,000 - are we looking at an organisation with a bloated middle management, or one with top-tier paying themselves ridiculous salaries?

No, we are looking at a whole organisation which needs substantial pruning. €56K ave would be for operating, maintenance and station staff. State and Semi State salaries are around €930 a week ave, compared with €620 for Private company salaries. Most State/Semi State employees have been protected from the worst effects of the economic meltdown. For example not one person has been made redundant in the Civil Service (330,000 employees), whilst Private companies have had to shed several hundred thousands. Unemployment has only been kept down by mass emigration (450,000 has been a figure mentioned). The Irish economy is still a basket case and the money simply isn't available to keep IE going as it is. If the worst happens IE could be insolvent next year. If that was to happen then I would expect that only a rump of DART and Outer Suburban services surviving, with maybe the Cork line as well. Rail operation limits could be Greystones, Drogheda, Maynooth, Portlaoise and maybe Cork. All other lines to close with the highly competitive (Privately Operated) Coach companies, as mentioned before, taking over. It must also be noted that SIPTU and the NBRU are opposed to any privatisation of any aspect of IE, BE and Dublin Bus. If the strike drags on, then the likely hood of BE an Dublin Bus being drawn into it cannot be discounted.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Out of interest which service (e.g. DART, Dublin-Galway, Cork Metro etc) on the IE network is closest to being in the black?

As far as I am aware, only LUAS makes money, (it has no Government Subvention). I believe that all other Rail operations are loss makers, the Nenagh/Clonmel/Western Rail Corridors suffering heavy losses. Cork main line and DART losses would not be as bad. Lets say this, investing in some of the Private coach operaters might be a smart move ATM.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Very simplistic terms-

So Irish Railways spend millions modernising the system/trains and when the recession bites them on the Ar5e they expect the staff to pay for it!

3 out of 5 of the unions involved have agreed the measures with IE management. TBH SIPTU and the NBRU leadership remind me of the unions in the UK Manufacturing Industries of the late 70's, (and also of the NUR at that time, of which I was a member).

 

[scotsman]

It's rather sad. I honestly think (and I don't like this idea) that privatising operations might be the best way to maintain the existance of the network.

 

[455driver]

3 out of 5 of the unions involved have agreed the measures with IE management. TBH SIPTU and the NBRU leadership remind me of the unions in the UK Manufacturing Industries of the late 70's, (and also of the NUR at that time, of which I was a member).

You clearly know a lot more than I do about this dispute (our cat probably knows more about it than me to be honest) but what grades do the 3 Unions in agreement represent (and what sort of job losses/reduction in pay are their grades looking at) and what grades do the 2 disputing unions represent (and what sort of job losses/reduction in pay are their grades looking at) just so I/we can see their respective viewpoints. It is easy to agree to something if it doesnt affect your members!

 

[LowLevel]

Haven't they already chopped the likes of guards etc? 56k does seem rather high though !

 

[Hornet]

You clearly know a lot more than I do about this dispute (our cat probably knows more about it than me to be honest) but what grades do the 3 Unions in agreement represent (and what sort of job losses/reduction in pay are their grades looking at) and what grades do the 2 disputing unions represent (and what sort of job losses/reduction in pay are their grades looking at) just so I/we can see their respective viewpoints. It is easy to agree to something if it doesnt affect your members!

TSSA, TEEU and UNITE are the three Unions that have agreed the cuts with IE Management. We are talking about a 1.7% wage cut for those on around €56,000 up to 6.1% for Senior Management Salaries. This is in a Country where some Private sector employees have seen there wages slashed by 30%, (if they have been lucky to keep their job). The Labour Courts, (were resolutions of disputes are conducted) recommended the cuts to go ahead. No job losses are being mooted.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/traffic-chaos-on-the-cards-as-rail-strike-continues-283399.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ahead-as-pay-cuts-impasse-continues-1.1902647

SIPTU
http://www.siptu.ie/
NBRU
http://www.nbru.ie/
TSSA Ireland is a part of the TSSA UK organisation.
UNITE Ireland is a part of the UNITE UK organisation.
TEEU (My Union)
http://www.teeu.ie/default.asp

SIPTU have also been involved in Strike threats in Aer Lingus. They also have representation on the Board of Directors of Aer Lingus. Suffice to say that one of Aer Lingus main shareholders are constantly in Boardroom battles with SIPTU's representative. That shareholder is Ryanair.

 

[455driver]

Thank you for the info and links Hornet, most interesting reading.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Sorry, I got the figures slightly wrong in last message

According to the companies Annual Report, at the end of December 2013, the company had 3,768 employees

Total cost of salaries: €207,159,000
Total cost of all employees including social contributions and pensions: €249,484,000

End Result (Cost divided by staff)
Average Salary: €54,978
Average cost per employee: €66,211

Note: Above figures do not include director fees or other emoluments

 

[Hornet]

From the Herald (Dublin's paper) this afternoon.

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/column...-rail-may-not-be-too-farfetched-30532877.html

 

[F Great Eastern]

Talk of an all out strike now and another newspaper also raised the prospect of lightning strikes as well
http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...nuclear-option-of-allout-strike-30536111.html

There now appears to be a real attempt at trying to get the government drawn into this, with the aim of extracting taxpayers money to the sum that would be saved by the wage cuts. This harps back to an era in Ireland under Bertie Ahern, where it was commonplace for the unions to threaten strike action and for any money asked for to be handed out relatively easily to quell an industrial dispute rather than resolve the underlying issues, which led to unions striking for every little thing in the knowledge the state would always give in.

Indeed the rhetoric has changed now that the unions are no longer striking over pay cuts, but they are striking over the future of the system and are taking their focus off the management and setting their aim firmly on the government, as underlined by several workers today saying that it was now up to the government to resolve the matter and it has been implied in a none to subtle way that they expect any talks now to be a three way process. I would suspect the next step may well be to try and make that happen and create a scenario where both the unions and the company will put pressure on the government to create extra funding since this strike is clearly no longer just about pay.

I can imagine they will do their utmost to provoke the government in the days ahead.

 

[Hornet]

This all goes back to the cosy cartel of Fianna Fail and the Unions Benchmaking agreements. The Unions have for years had the Government by the short and curleys with this agreement. The saddest thing is even with Fine Gael in power, nobody has the cojones to put this agreement to the sword. Irish politicians are the biggest wasters this side of the Atlantic.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/benchmarking-pay-was-12bn-annual-mistake-26709659.html
http://www.soldiersofdestiny.org/benchmarkmark2.htm

 

[IR-Mark4/ICR]

Just a brief comment on the 56k wages. Of the employees in that band 40% are on 36k and less. 56k is the max wage of a driver however many would be below this.

Wages do need to drop but the Government are really screwing up to 60 million from IE per year in a free travel scheme. If it was fully funded IE problems would be over and further investment could be made.

As for lines in profit, no exact data but Dublin-Cork does well and I believe both Cork Commuter make the least losses on the network. The capacity changes combined with increasing numbers have really helped DART costs and the same repeated on all routes.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Just a brief comment on the 56k wages. Of the employees in that band 40% are on 36k and less. 56k is the max wage of a driver however many would be below this.

Do you have anything to back that up since I have heard rather different, I've seen a lot of numbers banded about but the only ones I have been able to verify are the ones I specified earlier which came from the companies auditied accounts?

[quote[Wages do need to drop but the Government are really screwing up to 60 million from IE per year in a free travel scheme. If it was fully funded IE problems would be over and further investment could be made.[/QUOTE]

But the free travel scheme has been free for years and IE's problems you have to admit are largely down to the fact that that they've lost 20% of the customer base, if they still had that part of the customer base then they'd not be in this situation.

Of course the free travel situation is a problem and the subvention doesn't help, but losing 20% of your paying passengers over a few years has really hit them as well - any company who loses that much custom is always going to have to adjust their costs.

 

[scotsman]

Just a brief comment on the 56k wages. Of the employees in that band 40% are on 36k and less. 56k is the max wage of a driver however many would be below this.

Wages do need to drop but the Government are really screwing up to 60 million from IE per year in a free travel scheme. If it was fully funded IE problems would be over and further investment could be made.

As for lines in profit, no exact data but Dublin-Cork does well and I believe both Cork Commuter make the least losses on the network. The capacity changes combined with increasing numbers have really helped DART costs and the same repeated on all routes.

Are you saying that some govt staff get free travel on IE?

 

[radamfi]

Are you saying that some govt staff get free travel on IE?

Pensioners get free travel on Irish public transport.

However, free travel for government employees wouldn't be so strange. In Belgium, all public workers get free travel.

 

[DT611]

Some would argue the problem with investment in the boom years was that too much was spent on new trains and more were ordered than required replacing rolling stock that still had years of life in it, when it should have been spent on the infrastructure.

Irish Rail have lost a number of passenger to coach options which are almost as fast, and in some case faster than the train, because the line speeds are pretty low in places compared to say the UK where the train would almost always beat a coach hands down.

and even with all the new trains the rosslare and sligo lines still have suburban railcars turning up on some services while long distance speck stock can do the suburban services out of connolly and do all suburban services out of heuston. also there are a bunch of 16 year old 2 car DMUS rotting (sorry in storage) . its sad really. all that money and we've nothing to show for it. we could have had a good rail system of decent speed and all we have is a lot of new trains but which end up running services they aren't specked to because of operational convenience. shame
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Haven't they already chopped the likes of guards etc? 56k does seem rather high though !

those wages would be for drivers and lower middle management. the middle management really aren't needed at all to be honest
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If the average pay is €56,000 - are we looking at an organisation with a bloated middle management, or one with top-tier paying themselves ridiculous salaries?

in my opinion both
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Pensioners get free travel on Irish public transport.

However, free travel for government employees wouldn't be so strange. In Belgium, all public workers get free travel.

pensioners, the disabled (severely or not) get free travel on all state public transport at all times of day including train and bus. and some private bus operators (all though how many i don't know)